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Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?  
User currently offlineyvphx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 258 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8379 times:

I was watching a news segment about possible UFO sightings in the Denver, CO area. The story was about if FAA saw this on their screens As I was watching, they showed a radar blip at 2:17 which in the center of the screen it shows "AIR 1" as an aircraft identifier. IT appears as though this was file footage, because the runway picture does not line up with DEN, maybe ATL?

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#...13/co-ufo-sightings-in-denver.kdvr

I checked Wikipedia, and it said the owner of "AIR" Air lift International which ceased operations in 1999

Is this Air Force 1? What does AF1 look like on radar screens? This was just something I saw that stood out like a sore thumb to me.

Any info would help!

I do not have a date the image was filmed, but it was added to CNN on Nov 13, 2012.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8391 times:
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There was an Air 1 based in STL in the mid 80s flying 727s.They didnt last long,
Sparky


User currently offlineCaptSkibi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Air Force 1 would certainly show up on ATC radar, as it's not stealth. It's just blocked on all sites that show radar tracking. If you tune in VHF, you'd be able to hear it, too.

ATC has special rules for handling Air Force 1, such as not ever using the Heavy designation regardless of aircraft type. It also must be handled by a supervisor, presumably to eliminate errors.



Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / DL Gold Elite
User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8391 times:
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Quoting CaptSkibi (Reply 2):
It also must be handled by a supervisor, presumably to eliminate errors.


So the rest of us a cannon fodder who can be handled by those a bit more error prone?

i men i realize whenever AF1 goes into an airport, th Airport is essentially shut down, but they really have to have a supervisor control AF1 when any of the people who normally work the position should be more than capable?



Boiler Up!
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6161 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

There is no 3 letter code for AF1. On the radar it will only show as a 4 number squawk code. So the AIR1 you saw would have been some other operator.


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Quoting CaptSkibi (Reply 2):
It also must be handled by a supervisor

Air Force One can be worked by regular rank and file controllers. Naturally, several people including a supervisor will be standing behind him/her.

I'm not sure if Air Force One is treated differently in the real world as far as datablocks go, but at the academy, we use the standard prefixes for military aircraft. (ex. "A" for 'Air Force', "VV" for 'Navy', "R" for 'Army' etc.) Using this logic Air Force One would appear as "A1" in a datablock.


User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2350 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Quoting CaptSkibi (Reply 2):
ATC has special rules for handling Air Force 1, such as not ever using the Heavy designation regardless of aircraft type.

I've seen them fly into JFK on a many occasions with the VC-25, and whenever I was listening on the scanner, both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):
both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.

That's a no-no. The 7110 states not to use heavy.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting yvphx (Thread starter):
I checked Wikipedia, and it said the owner of "AIR" Air lift International which ceased operations in 1999

Is this Air Force 1? What does AF1 look like on radar screens? This was just something I saw that stood out like a sore thumb to me.

Any info would help!

I do not have a date the image was filmed, but it was added to CNN on Nov 13, 2012.

Volusia County Sheriff (Daytona Beach) helicopters used to use the call sign Air 1. I think a Medical Helicopter company also uses that call sign in Florida. This might have been a Medivac chopper or Sheriff helicopter


User currently offlineCaptSkibi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 5):
Air Force One can be worked by regular rank and file controllers. Naturally, several people including a supervisor will be standing behind him/her.

This must be what I was thinking of LI. I knew there was something to do with a supervisor. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Edited 2012-11-13 20:45:50]


Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / DL Gold Elite
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):
I've seen them fly into JFK on a many occasions with the VC-25, and whenever I was listening on the scanner, both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.



Sorry, but the U.S. controller workforce and supervisors have been weal trained in the use of the AF1 call sign.............in whatever type of aircraft the POTUS is flying. The phrase "HEAVY" is not supposed to be used regardless of the aircraft type.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 8):
Volusia County Sheriff (Daytona Beach) helicopters used to use the call sign Air 1. I think a Medical Helicopter company also uses that call sign in Florida



And your point? Locally used VFR call signs are simply that, locally used VFR call signs. Nothing more, nothing less.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2350 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 10):
The phrase "HEAVY" is not supposed to be used regardless of the aircraft type.

That may be true, and it did sound odd to hear, but I've heard it on more than one occasion.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 11):
That may be true, and it did sound odd to hear, but I've heard it on more than one occasion.



If so then the facility who has controllers doing that should be educated to the correct procedures and phraseology.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineF9Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 698 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Was their another plane nearby? I know they like to clear the airspace around AF1, and they also like to fly its twin with it both for security and a backup.

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting F9Fan (Reply 13):
Was their another plane nearby? I know they like to clear the airspace around AF1, and they also like to fly its twin with it both for security and a backup.

What twin might that be?



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinedirtyfrankd From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8392 times:

Can someone explain why ATC is not supposed to use the "heavy" designation when talking to Air Force One? I'm just curious...

User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8389 times:
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Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 14):
Quoting F9Fan (Reply 13):
Was their another plane nearby? I know they like to clear the airspace around AF1, and they also like to fly its twin with it both for security and a backup.

What twin might that be?

There are two VC-25As, and half a dozen C-32s.


User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 826 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 15):
Can someone explain why ATC is not supposed to use the "heavy" designation when talking to Air Force One? I'm just curious...

To avoid being able to identify what type of aircraft it is. Since AF1 can be any aircraft in the USAF inventory not always a the VC-25 or other heavy type aircraft.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2350 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
If so then the facility who has controllers doing that should be educated to the correct procedures and phraseology.

As well as the flight crew, as I've heard them use it too.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 7):
Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.
That's a no-no. The 7110 states not to use heavy.

Correct. No matter what airplane type is used for AF-1, it has blocked airspace all around it, that is in excess of any requirement for following a heavy jet. So, the "Heavy" designation attached to the call sign is not needed.


User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8387 times:

I'm not sure if the designator for air force 1 is public information or not so I won't share what it is, but it's *not* AIR1.

User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8387 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 14):
What twin might that be?


There are 2 identical VC-25s that POTUS will normally use as AF-1. When POTUS travels the 2nd VC-25 is deployed as well. Recently when President Obama was at Ft Bliss, TX (near ELP) I saw the other VC-25 at ABQ parked on the ramp of Kirtland AFB.


User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8140 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):

Apart from George W Bush's presidential trip to either Iraq or Afghanistan, where they passed off the 747 as a business jet.



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlinen92r03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7867 times:

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 21):
When POTUS travels the 2nd VC-25 is deployed as well.

Not true. Only overseas trips get both VC-25's and a slew of others as well. I'm not saying you did not see both, but both do not "always" travel together.


User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 966 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7792 times:

It is true though that 3 Marine helicopters fly when ever the POTUS is flying in Marine 1. Marine 1 and two more identical helicopters. They fly in formation and its not until Marine 1 lands on the lawn that you can tell which one is actually Marine One.

User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7368 times:

Quoting n92r03 (Reply 23):
Not true. Only overseas trips get both VC-25's and a slew of others as well. I'm not saying you did not see both, but both do not "always" travel together.


I never said that they were together. What I said was that when President Obama was at Ft Bliss TX, next door to ELP, I saw the 2nd VC-25 at Kirkland AFB, which is Albuquerque NM. So even domestically both VC-25s will leave Andrews. One, as AF1, will carry POTUS to his destination and the other will be a relatively short flight away.


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