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North Korea Launches Rocket  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5997 times:

I put this here because I know this will descend to political discussion.

Fox reported to my phone's breaking news app that N Korea launched the Lode-Star 3 rocket (I'm not going to attempt to write out the korean) about 40 minutes ago. No further word on how it ended up.



Guys, this happens so often these days.   What can be done? What does this imply? If they are serious about a satellite program, then why be so secretive about it?


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
If they are serious about a satellite program, then why be so secretive about it?

What isn't secretive in the country?



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5976 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
What can be done?

More sanctions that seem to work oh so well.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
What does this imply?

That the North isn't going to stop shooting these rockets no matter what we do with the sanctions.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
If they are serious about a satellite program, then why be so secretive about it?

They're a secretive nation. Same thing with Iran and their nuclear program, why keep it a secret if it really is just for civilian energy use?



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5968 times:

Meh, NK is just a giant attention whore, nothing more. IMing my friend in SK now, gonna ask him about it...


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21092 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
No further word on how it ended up.

If it worked, that'll be the first time in a number of tests.

Of course, we won't be able to know about that until the US or Japan or South Korea comment, since the North Koreans are going to say it went off spectacularly.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2032 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5903 times:

Looks like it got farther than that last 2.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/11/world/...rocket-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_t3



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6996 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

I read about them preparing to launch a rocket a few days ago. Don't think this was not anticipated unless the type of rocket is different than they thought.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
Don't think this was not anticipated unless the type of rocket is different than they thought.

It just wasn't anticipated this soon because there's satellite images of them replacing the first stage just a few days ago. The world was thinking it was going to be more of a late December launch.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
What can be done?

Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/THAAD_Launcher.jpg



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
I read about them preparing to launch a rocket a few days ago. Don't think this was not anticipated unless the type of rocket is different than they thought.

The type of rocket is the same and many experts said that the launch would be around Dec. 17. But then NK announced to delay the launch due to "various technical problems", and satellite images seemed to confirm it. And now they launch it before Dec. 17. Some intelligence officers will have a hard time the next days.

[Edited 2012-12-11 19:21:08]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSmittyOne From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 1272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

Maybe work on electricity first...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark.jpg



We live in an age surrounded by complex machines but the basic knowledge of the average punter is minimal. -GDB
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6103 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5758 times:

Well the US also launched something into space today and are pretty secretive about it.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5732 times:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
What isn't secretive in the country?

True   

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 2):
More sanctions that seem to work oh so well.

We need to figure out how to actually make sanctions work.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Meh, NK is just a giant attention whore

Ain't that the truth.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 5):
Looks like it got farther than that last 2.

That's what I heard. Went over Okinawa. Can radar track objects that enter into the upper atmosphere?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
Well the US also launched something into space today and are pretty secretive about it.

Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations

Who is? As far as I know, the United States is the only nation to have ever used a nuclear device against another...



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2649 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5694 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
We need to figure out how to actually make sanctions work.

The only way is if China and Russia cut the umbilical cord. Which is not going to happen anytime soon.

Well if they truly got something into orbit besides a golf ball I'll be shocked. The last two were a joke and chances are the next launch will be poor as well. They just don't have the resources to provide consistent safe launches. I know they want to be some all powerful nation, but couldn't the money spent on all of these launches and the previous ones gone somewhere better, say feeding their own people?
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 14):
The only way is if China and Russia cut the umbilical cord. Which is not going to happen anytime soon.

What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 14):
Well if they truly got something into orbit besides a golf ball I'll be shocked. The last two were a joke and chances are the next launch will be poor as well. They just don't have the resources to provide consistent safe launches. I know they want to be some all powerful nation, but couldn't the money spent on all of these launches and the previous ones gone somewhere better, say feeding their own people?

You're telling me.....anyone got more information on how successful this was?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2649 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5670 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

They see            . North Korea is truly cut off from the rest of the world. They still need resources. Why not be the ones to profit from that?

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
You're telling me.....anyone got more information on how successful this was?

I just saw on twitter that NORAD is reporting they launched an "object" into orbit. They aren't saying exactly what it is thought. Perhaps a North Korean copy of Sputnik? 
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

Russia was right there with the west on the last few launches telling them not to. China says that they're troubled but that's all that happens with that.

My theory on those two countries and their "support" is that if there ever was a war you couldn't have something like that happened in Vietnam where people would go through other countries, and as the fighting would go further and further North, you would be pushing people into China and Russia, they don't want to have to deal with refugees and fighting on their sides of the border. But again this is just what I think, I hope there is someone else who could give us a better reason.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2238 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5616 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

So an act of war? You really want to go there? Even if you don't care about North Koreans, are you willing to sacrifice a million South Koreans? You may want to remember that those folks are our friends. Perhaps the policy of containing the DPRK until it collapses of its own accord might not be so bad? We've waited six decades, why not a couple more?

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

The Russian aren't happy at the moment, nor are the Chinese (although they're being very low key about that). The very last thing the Chinese want is for the North to provoke an actual war on the peninsula. Longer term, the Chinese' main concern is actually letting the DPRK collapse - they assume they'll have millions of refugees crossing the Yalu, and other trouble on their border. And once *that's* all resolved, they've have the ROK and the US right on their border. So long as the North Koreans keep themselves to mostly annoying South Korea, Japan and the United States, and the regime remains stable, the Chinese avoid a bunch of problems. Propping up an unsavory regime for their own benefit is hardly an uncommon action by nations...


User currently offlinekpitrrat From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

Seems to be a pretty good idea to me. Aren't the South and North still "technically" at war just in the midst of some type of cease fire (not sure of the appropriate term).

Every time they decide to shoot a rocket blow it out of the sky, I'd say thats a legitimate reason to fire at it, the south can say they do not know what its for and pseuo legitimize its destruction?

Also I have heard that they have been aiming these rockets on a path that takes it close to coming over, or actually crossing over, Japan. Wouldn't that justify their destruction alone, obviously, we would need Japanese cooperation but still.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10727 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

Shouldn't this thread be in the Military Av./Space forum?

From U.S. source: NK launched "an object" into orbit

NORAD: NKorea appears to have orbited 'an object'
WASHINGTON (AP) — The North American Aerospace Defense Command says North Korea appears to have launched "an object" into Earth orbit, but neither the missile used nor debris from the launch are a threat to North America.
NORAD officials said U.S. missile warning systems detected and tracked the launch at 7:49 p.m. EST Tuesday. The missile was tracked in a southerly direction.

read more:
http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/N...have-orbited-an-object-4110164.php

- Launch time 00:49:46 UTC
- Satellite released at T+9:27 (00:59:13 UTC)
- Orbit parameters 499.7 x 584.18 km x 97.4°, T=95 min 29 sec (note that this seems to fit best with NORAD object 39027/2012-072B)

Supposed to be 072A, not B. It is at 495 x 588 km.
Could be 3 "objects" they placed into orbit.
http://www.space.com/18867-north-korea-rocket-launch-satellite.html

Third NK launch infographics
http://www.space.com/15006-north-kor...a-3-rocket-launch-infographic.html

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

EU is considering harder sanctions against North Korea together with it's allies, says EU's chief of foreign affairs Catherine Ashton

In Norwegian:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ur...med-rakettoppskytning-7067979.html


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10727 posts, RR: 38
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

The X-37B was launched about same timing. I wonder if there is any correlation between the two launches and if X-37B can "see" and watch the NK orbital object(s)?

They claim it's a weather satellite. It seems to have a polar orbit, probably sun-synchronous. Basically, three kinds of satellites use that sort of orbit; meteorological, mapping, and spy satellites. The former in order to monitor things like global temperature and improve weather forecast modeling, the latter two because it keeps the shadow angles the same on each pass and provides global coverage. I seriously doubt the north koreans put a satellite up there to check for global warming or see if polar bears are stranded on ice floats.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1544 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5472 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

I can imagine the headline now, "65 dead in Seoul suburb as US plays wargames against weather satelite"

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.

Really?

Fred


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12035 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5411 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
We need to figure out how to actually make sanctions work.

They don't and arguably never have. For example, 50 years of sanctions against Cuba has achieved nothing.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.

Epic history fail.   



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
25 justinlee : A poor, corrupt, funny DPRK is far better than a strong, rich, Republic of Korea with US Army in it. That's why although most of the Chinese see DPRK
26 Revelation : It's still about global power and influence. It's still the same reason why both still support Assad in Syria, and why they use their veto in the UN
27 PHX787 : I too am starting to question what this will do I'm not talking about Hiroshima/Nagasaki or Cold War. I'm talking about modern-day America
28 Revelation : And neither did the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Next suggestion? In reality, short of military intervention, there's not much one can do to another nation
29 Post contains links jetblueguy22 : Well that didn't take long. Apparently the satellite is spinning out of control. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...t-of-control-us-officials-say?
30 EA CO AS : "Far better" you say? How? Be specific. Let an average citizen from the DPRK enjoy the average standard of living found in South Korea for a week and
31 iFlyLOTs : Can't really say I'm surprised by that.. Horay? Well he's speaking from a Chinese perspective, which I could very well see being the reason. If the N
32 Oroka : A dictatorship who rules a starving country (ie funny) is better than a stable first world country because of the presence of 28 500 foreign troops t
33 Post contains links and images justinlee : That's a tricky part of China's foreign policy. Among the dangerous neighbors, which I guess countries like Canada don't have , we need to choose the
34 EA CO AS : Unless I'm misreading this, you're saying aligning with a "less dangerous" neighbor like the DPRK is better than the "most dangerous" neighbor. Who p
35 Post contains images justinlee : I would say Japan or India. Japan, hey, we hate each other and we may even, sadly, go to war for a piece of rock in the middle of nowhere (say Diaoyu
36 JoeCanuck : So let me get this straight; The US and other countries launch thousands of 'objects', (many of them strictly military), on essentially upgraded ICBM'
37 india1 : Hey Justin, do you seriously believe that a democratic, progressive, secular India is "more dangerous" to you than a fundamentalist Pakistan, in the
38 PHX787 : LOL This is not surprising...better hope it doesn't impact any land
39 Post contains links india1 : @ PHX - there are conflicting reports, as you can see below. Its orbiting alright, but whether its functioning is a question http://www.independent.ie
40 justinlee : Yeah, I totally agree with you. What I said above is what the Chinese government think about. I just want to explain why they support some of the mos
41 mandala499 : I'm sure China would prefer a less crazy North Korea... in fact, they probably don't mind NK being absorbed to SK... the only problem is that it woul
42 justinlee : Part of. Actually South Korea was basically ruled by military regime 1949-1987.
43 PHX787 : Looks like S. Korea is reporting that the satallite is orbiting normally.... Well I caution your dates there, they started to give more freedoms, for
44 Post contains images bikerthai : And this is a warning to all ruling military regime. The South Korean military junta brought the South Korean economy into the 20th century. It gave
45 justinlee : That's a sad truth. I think China is on the same way.
46 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : NK to launch more "satellites" according to The Hindustan News N Korea holds mass rally, vows more launches Hundreds of thousands of North Koreans hel
47 PHX787 : Well again I caution this. China's in different shoes. From a Maoist regime to "socialism with Chinese characteristics" to "state-controlled capitali
48 Post contains images Tupolev160 : Haha, ridiculous, there is not any possible trade between North Korea and the EU, just hilarious... The collapsing EU is closing on the entire world
49 BigJKU : I don't really get too worked up about it. It is a minor technical achievement in these days but there are very good reasons for a lot of nations to
50 NoUFO : 1950 North Korea started the Korea War. Its former enemies are now feeding many North Koreans. In return, they demand that the country spends the lit
51 MD11Engineer : No, the true reason is (like with Canada contesting a little, barren, icy and uninhabited rock in the arctic with Greenland (and therefore Denmark a
52 PHX787 : Tupolev, read a book on the Pacific theater. It was either those lives lost, or millions slaughtered in operation Downfall. The ethics of the atomic
53 JoeCanuck : China is the biggest threat in the area. Their latest stunt in demanding ownership over the entire South China Sea has done more in one week to threa
54 GDB : While the South Korean's and to an extent, the Japanese, have reason to be worried about this vile, clapped out, technically backward, Orwellian regim
55 MD11Engineer : Read about operation "Downfall", the planned Allied invasion of Japan. In early summer 1945 Allied troops not needed anymore in Europe were drawn tog
56 bikerthai : As other have noted. The deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not indiscriminate. It was a coldly calculated numbers game. 1 bomb to do the job of a
57 bennett123 : Bikerthai Actually, the Red Army made considerable use of mass attacks. This entailed basicly throwing limitless numbers of troops at the enemy, parti
58 GDB : Zhukov might have done, Stalin certainly didn't. If he could almost wipe out the Army Officer Corps in the 1930's......which almost lead to defeat in
59 bikerthai : And if he would have used it, I would understand the reason why. And while it may not applies to Stalin, I will understand the mentality of getting a
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