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SpaceX's Grasshopper  
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32072 times:
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Another space commercialization idea that may or may not work out is SpaceX's Grasshopper. The idea is to fly a Falcon 9 first stage back to its launch site & reuse it, thereby lowering the cost of getting to orbit.

Recently SpaceX had another successful test of the Grasshopper, flying the 12 story tall vehicle to a height of approximately 12 stories and then landing. Amazing thing to me here, vs other similiar vehicles, is the sheer size of the thing... It's BIG, note the vehicles around the launch pad...

http://youtu.be/B4PEXLODw9c


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135 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32076 times:
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Animation of what a fully reusable Falcon 9 launch (less the trunk it seems) might look like...

http://youtu.be/OX2-qEC7P_I



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 31896 times:

I'd been wondering how they'd get the 2nd stage on the ground since an M1D would be way too powerful. It looks like 4 small thrusters. Super Dracos don't seem likely since you'd have to add hypergolic tanks.


Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 31846 times:
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2nd stage is the difficult bit. Personally I think they'll be doing well to get the 1st stage back.


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User currently onlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 31824 times:



Quoting zanl188 (Reply 3):
2nd stage is the difficult bit.

Whilst that is probably true on the propulsion end, I'm not sure it is on the navigational side. The second stage is inserted into orbit and can be directed to de-orbit at any time with little fuel requirement and with the considerable aerobreaking meaning relatively little fuel will be needed to steer and retard the module for the final pad landing. The first stage does not get into an orbit, therefore to get it back to the initial launch pad requires you to burn not only to decelerate but indeed to reverse direction onto a ballistic trajectory back to the pad. This needs far more fuel, even for a relatively light stage. Much better IMO to land somewhere like the Azores (or possibly even further afield) and ship the rocket back home from there, which would still offer a saving over building a new one.

Of course the remote landing pad would somewhat complicate the weather requirements for go/no go decisions if the economics of the launch operation actually require the launcher to be reusable in every instance.

[Edited 2012-12-26 09:04:27]

User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 31811 times:
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Quoting GST (Reply 4):
Much better IMO to land somewhere like the Azores (or possibly even further afield) and ship the rocket back home from there, which would still offer a saving over building a new one.

Quite a bit of fuel would be needed to get as far down range as the Azores. Seems to me the thing to do would be to land on a large barge, maybe an old oil tanker, or a spit of land somewhere.

The other problem with going back to the launch site is range safety. Titusville is just on the other side of the river from the launch site... would be bad to drop a first stage on the neighbors.



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User currently onlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 31790 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 5):
Quite a bit of fuel would be needed to get as far down range as the Azores. Seems to me the thing to do would be to land on a large barge, maybe an old oil tanker, or a spit of land somewhere.

More fuel than reversing direction? I'm not so sure. But I agree a floating pad would seem to be the most practical first stage recovery site as you can put it wherever is most convenient. Of course if it is convenient for first stage recovery it would almost certainly be in a location that you can easily bring the second stage down onto after payload insertion too which simplifies things massively.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 5):

The other problem with going back to the launch site is range safety. Titusville is just on the other side of the river from the launch site... would be bad to drop a first stage on the neighbors.

True, but is it any worse than a first stage going boom shortly after liftoff and raining rocket fuel on the vicinity? I'd love to see the relative risk assessments of those!


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 31783 times:
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Quoting GST (Reply 6):
True, but is it any worse than a first stage going boom shortly after liftoff and raining rocket fuel on the vicinity? I'd love to see the relative risk assessments of those!

Generally on liftoff the boosters are heading away from populated areas... In this case the booster is headed towards a populated area, big difference.



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User currently onlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 31740 times:

Yes they do if working correctly, but the [remote] potential for harm remains which is what I was referring to.

User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 31681 times:

Spacex seems to be getting pretty serious about the Texas site. That would change the 1st stage recovery equation some. Texas to Florida is a whole lot more practical than Florida to the Azores. That would only be about 20% further than the 1st stage impacts now. Just a little lower trajectory could put the 1st stage right where they want it.

[Edited 2012-12-26 16:07:54]


Anon
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 30975 times:
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Some onboard video from last months test...

http://youtu.be/nUV6oqCFrFU



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 29172 times:
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Latest test. Twice as high as the previous... Note the cowboy figure for scale...

http://youtu.be/orUjSkc2pG0



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 27095 times:
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Another Grasshopper test from earlier this month...

http://youtu.be/eGimzB5QM1M



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 26309 times:

Nice, thanks for the links. I have no doubt that SpaceX can achieve what many others deem too difficult


maxter
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 25399 times:
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Flew a relatively aggressive lateral manuever yesterday.

http://youtu.be/2t15vP1PyoA



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 24164 times:
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I wonder if SpaceX had to pay for lost dairy production?

http://youtu.be/HXdjxPY2j_0



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User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 4106 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 24132 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 15):
I wonder if SpaceX had to pay for lost dairy production?

Can't tell if they are dairy cattle.. if they are just skip one step in making yogurt.. they were however probably destined for beef and may be a little tough.


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 23718 times:
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SpaceX will attempt to soft land the 1st stage of upcoming Falcon 9 launch from Vandenberg.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...cket-set-for-risky-launch/2814865/

This Falcon 9 is the new version with 8 engines arranged in a circle and the 9th engine in the center.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9

Although no landing gear will be installed on the 1st stage for this flight, they're trying for a soft ocean landing, this does represent the first use of Grasshopper technology.



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 23711 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 17):
This Falcon 9 is the new version with 8 engines arranged in a circle and the 9th engine in the center.

Putting the eight outer engines evenly under the tank walls like that allowed them to simplify and lighten the thrust structure. The new engines are half again as powerful as the old M1Cs and required some major changes in the rocket.
The next Grasshopper should be a lot more production grade. You'll know it's getting serious when they start making flights every week.



Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 23250 times:
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First Falcon 9 with the Grasshopper tech and uprated engines launches from Vandenberg on Sunday. I expect SpaceX will attempt to limit expectations, may not see any coverage. http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/006/status.html


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 23046 times:
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Some words from Elon Musk regarding todays Falcon 9 launch:

"I give pretty low odds of this recovery working on this flight," Musk said. "The point of this mission is demonstrating the ascent of the crewed version of the Falcon 9."



Gotta love Musks brevity... Talking about stage recovery in one sentence... and a crewed version of Falcon 9 in the next... Lol!

Launch window opens at 0900 PDT, 1200 EDT, or 1600 GMT. About an hour and 20 minutes from now

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/006/130928preview/

Where is MdmeConcorde?

Good luck SpaceX!



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 23020 times:
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Launch appears to have gone well.

No word on the 1st stage soft landing other than a relight of the engines was achieved...



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 22937 times:
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1st stage soft landing failed. Engines relit as planned however stage developed a roll due to aerodynamic forces. Roll forced propellants away from inlets and engine flamed out.

Next attempt at 1st stage soft landing: CRS-3

Launch video:

http://youtu.be/N0mLlO9enfY



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User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1747 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22864 times:

Elon also tweeted:

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 12u Between this flight & Grasshopper tests, I think we now have all the pieces of the puzzle to bring the rocket back home.

And that is pretty damn awesome me thinks!  



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks ago) and read 22554 times:
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"SpaceX CEO and Chief Designer Elon Musk has laid out his plans for recovery and reusability of the first stage of the Falcon 9. The debut mission to launch the Cassiope satellite into orbit included a number of events that should help SpaceX recover and possibly even reuse the first stage of the Falcon 9 in 2014."



http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/...plans-reusability-falcon-9-rocket/



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 22415 times:
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Interesting view of Mondays Grasshopper test flight to 744 meters. View from a quadracopter.

http://youtu.be/9ZDkItO-0a4



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 22103 times:
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Mission overview video of the last F9 launch. Contains a brief bit of video of the 1st stage relight.

This link will start right after 1st stage sep...

http://youtu.be/RtDbDMRG3q8?t=2m22s



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 22228 times:
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Pic of 1st stage impact...

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/.../spacexs-dragon-moved-february-11/



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 21722 times:

Probably not known, but where is the best guess that grasshopper testing will go to from 744m? How soon do you believe the landing struts will be fitted to F9 even if not used for an actual recovered landing/return.


maxter
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 21718 times:

Quoting maxter (Reply 28):
Probably not known, but where is the best guess that grasshopper testing will go to from 744m? How soon do you believe the landing struts will be fitted to F9 even if not used for an actual recovered landing/return.

They intend to put legs on CRS-3 in February, but won't delay the rocket if the legs aren't ready. The SE-8 and Thaicom missions require the full F9 capability and won't have any extra fuel or recovery gear included.
The next Grasshopper will test mainly from Spaceport America in New Mexico after a few flights at McGregor. It's reported to have 3 engines for this stage of testing.



Anon
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21301 times:

So much for my sources. Gwenne Shotwell from SpaceX now says
"So what we're moving to now is what we call the Falcon Niner — Falcon 9R reusable — and that is a full Falcon 9 first stage, 9 engines and retractable landing gear. So that is the vehicle that we will be bringing to New Mexico".



Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21290 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 30):
"So what we're moving to now is what we call the Falcon Niner — Falcon 9R reusable — and that is a full Falcon 9 first stage, 9 engines and retractable landing gear. So that is the vehicle that we will be bringing to New Mexico".

Will this be Grasshopper 2 then? They'll need to fly it quick if they intended to recover CRS-3.



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 21145 times:

Yes thanks for that, wonder if they use it for CRS3 then, if so where will the recovery location be?

Cheers and thanks



maxter
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21106 times:

I don't think there's serious consideration of landing the CRS-3 booster. They'd like to fly the whole recovery profile and test the leg deployment, but it will still wind up in the water. Hopefully, they can get it back intact from there.


Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 19274 times:
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Pix here of the Cassiope first stage about to impact. Note engine appears to be firing...

http://www.zerognews.com/2013/10/15/...d-video-of-next-gen-falcon-9-demo/



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 18219 times:
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CRS-3 will have legs and attempt soft splashdown of the first stage.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/...port-legs-attempt-soft-splashdown/



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User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1747 posts, RR: 7
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 17866 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 35):

CRS-3 will have legs and attempt soft splashdown of the first stage.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/...down/

A picture Tweeted by Elon ( https://twitter.com/elonmusk );


"Mounting landing legs (~60 ft span) to Falcon 9 for next month's Space Station servicing flight"

"However, F9 will continue to land in the ocean until we prove precision control from hypersonic thru subsonic regimes"

2014 is turning out be an awesome spaceflight year  



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 16736 times:

Well, in the space of two days, the three engine next version of Grasshopper made it's maiden fight at McGregor and CRS3 went off with the 1st stage making a soft landing in the ocean. Apparently, there are two three engine test version of the recoverable first stage. One will stay in McGregor and one will test in New Mexico. The 9 engine Grasshopper 2 story was an old one before they changed it to 3 engines. Gwenne jumped the gun a little with that one.


Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16682 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 37):

Video of yesterdays F9R flight:

http://youtu.be/0UjWqQPWmsY

Waiting for hard data on how CRS3 1st stage landing went...

Going to be an exciting year for SpaceX....



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16093 times:
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Elon Musk / SpaceX press conference regarding CRS-3 boost stage landing. Also took question regarding law suit SpaceX recently filed against US Govt.

http://youtu.be/3p2D701zfZU

Stage landed intact, however broke up due to wave action. They have video however it's of poor quality and they are trying to clean it up prior to release. Musk expects a boost stage to make a landing at Canaveral prior to the end of 2014.



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User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13354 posts, RR: 77
Reply 40, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16027 times:

Another step in what could be one of the most significant advances in access to space ever.
The mind boggles when you consider that if this becomes standard on the Falcon range, including planned heavy lift versions, what the implications for not only access to low Earth orbit but potentially also for exploration, including manned, of the Moon, Asteroids and Mars.


User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2448 posts, RR: 5
Reply 41, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15883 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
Another step in what could be one of the most significant advances in access to space ever.

And to think, accomplished by one small company essentially still in it's infancy (relatively speaking) that is competing against master rocket builders like Boeing, LM, and even NASA itself. Musk should slap stickers on Teslas that say "My Other Car is a Falcon 9 Soft Lander". This guy is a different category of Homo Sapiens.


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15886 times:
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Quoting wingman (Reply 41):

At $400M a pop on a sole source contract I can understand why ULA wants to ride the gravy train as long as possible. As a taxpayer though I've got to root for Musk & SpaceX.



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 15802 times:

The FH will actually be more of a problem. The center core will be a lot faster and farther downrange than an F9 first stage when it's separates, so it will take a lot more to get it back home.


Anon
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 44, posted (11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 15802 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 43):
The FH will actually be more of a problem. The center core will be a lot faster and farther downrange than an F9 first stage when it's separates, so it will take a lot more to get it back home.

Would you not simply go suborbital and circle round to "get it back home"? A Pacific landing could be fairly simple to achieve I would think.

Tugg



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 15769 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 44):

Adds a lot of weight for thermal protection. Maybe when they sort out a way to recover the second stage.



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User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 15697 times:

Although not entirely related to the recoverable first stage, there's some pretty cool footage of the CRS-3 launch available on the tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od-lON4bTyQ

Launch happens at 40:00, staging at 42:45, and Dragon separation just past 50:00. I found especially the video footage of the red glow of the second stage engine nozzle pretty amazing.

(Did not find a CRS-3 thread on here, so I'm posting it here.)



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15512 times:
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Latest F9R test, this time to 1000M..

http://youtu.be/ZwwS4YOTbbw



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15490 times:
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FWIW, CRS-3 first stage landing video:

http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/04/29/first-stage-landing-video

Not much there but it's clear the legs deployed as planned



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15122 times:

Some info on CRS-3 soft ocean landing outcomes - Elon at the National Press Club

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcgfHslGjII



maxter
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (10 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14470 times:
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More enhanced CRS3 landing video from NASASpaceflight.com. Shows leg deploy:

http://youtu.be/XoufUV5oGTo

Related news:

FAA has published a draft environmental impact statement for DragonFly testing at SpaceXs Texas testing site. Dragonfly is the propulsive landing test article for the crewed Dragon, now named Dragon V2. Testing expected to begin late this year and will include both parachute and rocket landing tests.

Dragon V2 was unveiled by Elon Musk on Thursday night. In a very Tony Stark style if you ask me... Video here:

http://youtu.be/yEQrmDoIRO8



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13834 times:
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F9R goes to 1000M and deploys steering fins....

http://youtu.be/DgLBIdVg3EM



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13955 times:

I hadn't heard of those grid fins before I saw that video. Pretty cool. It's starting to look like a spaceship.


Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13786 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 52):

I'd heard about the fins, wasn't sure what form they'd take. Didn't know they'd display so much motion...

I'm getting the itch to see 3 cores return after a F9H launch.....



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User currently offlineairplaneaddict From United States of America, joined May 2010, 12 posts, RR: 4
Reply 54, posted (9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13785 times:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ launch in 16 minutes

User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13718 times:
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Quoting airplaneaddict (Reply 54):

Scrubbed due to a 2nd stage pressurization problem. Rescheduled to this afternoon at 1746 EDT. Not sure if they'll attempt a soft landing with the first stage... Anybody know?



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13701 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 55):
Not sure if they'll attempt a soft landing with the first stage... Anybody know?

Not on land. But the ocean landing (oceaning?) will be a lot closer to shore, so they should get a lot better video.
I'm wondering if it's about time to fire the head Helium guy at SpaceX. Just about every recent problem they've had is helium related.



Anon
User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13682 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 56):
But the ocean landing (oceaning?)

I think that would be considered a controlled splash-down.


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13691 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 56):

Well it has legs... and shiny engines....


Courtesy: Spaceflightnow.com



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13654 times:
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Launch time now 1839 EDT, about 45 minutes from now. No webcast for this attempt... 

edit: scrub! No go for weather

[Edited 2014-06-21 15:31:39]


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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13610 times:

They'll try again tomorrow (Sunday) with a 4 hour window. Orbcomm is only half a payload, so they have plenty of leeway for a wide launch window and still have fuel for the 1st stage return test.
Almost makes you wonder why they need Grasshopper if they can already bring it back.



Anon
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4381 posts, RR: 4
Reply 61, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13595 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 52):
I hadn't heard of those grid fins before I saw that video. Pretty cool. It's starting to look like a spaceship.

The Russians use them on the R-77 missile (a rough equivalent of the AMRAAM), and the have been used on the MOAB  


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13557 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 60):

They need to satisfy the FAA and the range that they can bring it back on target.

I suspect the reason for no webcast yesterday is they knew weather was iffy and likely no chance to fly. Doesn't look much better, weather wise, for today.



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13488 times:
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Scrubbed for weather today. I understand wx was bad enough they didn't even tank. Next opportunity looks like Tuesday afternoon.


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13167 times:
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Final CRS-3 landing video restoration:

http://youtu.be/CjZ33C9JZTM



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12616 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 63):
Scrubbed for weather today. I understand wx was bad enough they didn't even tank. Next opportunity looks like Tuesday afternoon.

Orbcomm launch is now set for 1144 EDT today, a little more than 3 hours from now. Weather is 50/50 at the moment and gets worse as the day goes by.

Spaceflightnow.com has fairly decent coverage here:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/010/status.html

[Edited 2014-07-14 05:39:42]


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12602 times:
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Launch now set for 1115 EDT. Weather 60% favorable.


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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 67, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12581 times:

Nice launch! Now wondering about the first stage recovery/landing....

Tugg



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 12585 times:
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Twitter from Musk states:

Rocket booster reentry, landing burn & leg deploy were good, but lost hull integrity right after splashdown (aka kaboom)



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 12605 times:

All 6 satellites successfully deployed. The stage re-entered, deployed legs and made a soft landing, but the tank lost integrity and it sank. Could be that hot engine doesn't take well to being dunked in cold water. The stage isn't really meant to tip over and float on waves anyhow. It might never stay intact with water landings. Hopefully, it's shallow enough to recover this time. If it looks like it's reliably controllable, maybe they can start bringing it back to land soon.


Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12183 times:
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YouTube video of 1st stage reentry and landing for the Orbcomm launch.

Lens ices up after the reentry burn.

http://youtu.be/CQnR5fhCXkQ



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12168 times:
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http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/07/2...-lands-falcon-9-rocket-first-stage

At this point, we are highly confident of being able to land successfully on a floating launch pad or back at the launch site and refly the rocket with no required refurbishment. However, our next couple launches are for very high velocity geostationary satellite missions, which don’t allow enough residual propellant for landing. In the longer term, missions like that will fly on Falcon Heavy, but until then Falcon 9 will need to fly in expendable mode.

We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success.



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11498 times:
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Orbcomm launch first stage landing, as seen from plane..

http://youtu.be/uIlu7szab5I



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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 73, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11416 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 72):
Orbcomm launch first stage landing, as seen from plane..

Interesting video. Nice stable fall though supersonic. Really sad that they lost track on the stage when they zoomed. I am surprised that he camera man does not know that the first thing you do when you site during a zoom is "unzoom" so you can locate again. I mean just as it was touching down.... jeez.

Tugg



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11114 times:
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F9R test flight terminated by flight termination system today near McGregor Texas...

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space...er-anomaly-over-texas-town-n186436



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11063 times:

Well, they said they were going to push it till it made an earth shattering kaboom. Chalk up a successful FTS test.


Anon
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 76, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11050 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 74):
F9R test flight terminated by flight termination system today near McGregor Texas...

I wonder if it took out the video drone...

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11348 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 75):
earth shattering kaboom

Well we know the space modulator works anyways.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 76):
I wonder if it took out the video drone...

I hope not... Will SpaceX release the video if it didn't? I'm thinking not  Still waiting for DreamChaser gear up landing video...



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10881 times:
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SpaceX delaying Falcon 9 launches pending review of the F9R accident:

http://news.discovery.com/space/priv...cial&utm_campaign=DiscoveryChannel



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10799 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 78):
SpaceX delaying Falcon 9 launches pending review of the F9R accident:

http://news.discovery.com/space/priv...cial&utm_campaign=DiscoveryChannel

They weren't going to since the problem with the test rocket wouldn't have been a problem with the real F9, but that and another helium leak got them thinking that they really needed to look at their processes. Redundancy is good, but when it leads to complacency it can cause a lot of failures.



Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 9700 times:
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SpaceX building floating platform to land Falcon 9 first stages...

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/te...anding-floating-platform/17847817/



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8612 times:
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SpaceX has a landing barge.....

Courtesy: SpaceX



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8488 times:

Hard to believe they built that just for a few tests. After they start returning to land, the platform might be for recovering the central core for the Heavies and F9 1st stages where they don't want to sacrifice too much payload for RTL ability.


Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8485 times:
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Musk mentioned in another tweet yesterday that the barge had provision for a refuel & relaunch capability to get the first stage back to the launch site.


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8495 times:
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Musk tweet from yesterday:

"Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future"

He also calls the barge a "Autonomous spaceport drone ship"



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User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 7406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 85, posted (4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8383 times:

Whatever the success of this, at least they do something, not just talk about it. Landing the thing, refueling it for a flight back to the launch pad is a crazy idea !


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8380 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 84):
He also calls the barge a "Autonomous spaceport drone ship"

I wonder if they added the "drone" after somebody noticed the unflattering acronym.



Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7549 times:
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Looks like on CRS-5, launching this friday, SpaceX will be making a serious attempt to recover the first stage. NASA TV will be covering the launch.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/st.../spacex_crs5_briefings_events.html

SpaceX CRS-5 Briefings and Events December 11, 2014The fifth SpaceX cargo mission to the International Space Station (ISS) under NASA's Commercial Resupply Services contract is scheduled to launch Friday, Dec. 19, from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. NASA Television coverage of the launch begins at 12:15 p.m. EST.

The company's Falcon 9 rocket will lift off at 1:20 p.m., carrying its Dragon cargo spacecraft. It is loaded with more than 3,700 pounds of scientific experiments, technology demonstrations and supplies, including critical materials to support 256 science and research investigations that will take place on the space station during ISS Expeditions 42 and 43.

In addition to launch coverage, NASA also will host a series of prelaunch news conferences Thursday, Dec. 18, at the agency's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. All briefings, which are subject to a change in time, will air live on NASA TV and the agency's website.

Prelaunch News Conference on NASA TV

Thursday, Dec. 18 (L-1 day): The prelaunch news conference will be held at Kennedy’s Press Site at noon. NASA Television will provide live coverage as well as streaming internet coverage.

Participants in the briefing will be:


•Mike Suffredini, International Space Station Program Manager, NASA
•Hans Koenigsmann, VP of Mission Assurance, SpaceX
•Kathy Winters, 45th Weather Squadron Rep, USAF
ISS Research and Technology panel on NASA TV

Thursday, Dec. 18 (L-1 day): An ISS Research and Technology panel will be held at Kennedy’s Press Site at 1:30 p.m. NASA Television will provide live coverage, as well as streaming internet coverage.

Participants in the panel will be:


•Julie Robinson, ISS Program chief scientist, NASA’sJohnson Space Center, Houston
•Michael Roberts, CASIS Sr. Research Pathway Manager
•Cheryl Nickerson, Micro-5 PI, Arizona State University
•Samuel Durrance, NR-SABOL PI, Florida Institute of Technology
CATS Earth Science Instrument Briefing on NASA TV

Thursday, Dec. 18 (L-1 day): A Cloud-Aerosol Transport System (CATS) briefing will be held at Kennedy’s Press Site at 3 p.m. NASA Television will provide live coverage, as well as streaming internet coverage.

Participants in the briefing will be:


•Julie Robinson, ISS Program chief scientist, NASA’s Johnson Space Center, Houston
•Colleen Hartman, deputy director for science, NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
•Robert J. Swap, program scientist, NASA Headquarters Earth Science Division, Washington
•Matthew McGill, CATS principal investigator, NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
Post-launch News Conference on NASA TV

Friday, Dec. 19: A post-launch news conference will be held at approximately 60 minutes after launch. NASA Television will provide live coverage, as well as streaming Internet coverage.

Participants in the post-launch news conference will be:


•Mike Suffredini, International Space Station Program Manager, NASA
•Hans Koenigsmann, VP of Mission Assurance, SpaceX
NASA TV LAUNCH COVERAGE

Friday, Dec. 19 (Launch day): NASA TV live coverage will begin at 12:15 p.m. EST and conclude at approximately 2 p.m. For NASA TV downlink information, schedules and links to streaming video, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv

Audio only of the news conferences and launch coverage will be carried on the NASA “V” circuits, which may be accessed by dialing 321-867-1220, -1240, -1260 or -7135. On launch day, "mission audio," the launch conductor’s countdown activities without NASA TV launch commentary, will be carried on 321-867-7135 starting at noon. Launch also will be available on local amateur VHF radio frequency 146.940 MHz heard within Brevard County on the Space Coast.

Courtesy: NASA



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7042 times:
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SpaceX statement regarding CRS-5:

X Marks the Spot: Falcon 9 Attempts Ocean Platform Landing
During our next flight, SpaceX will attempt the precision landing of a Falcon 9 first stage for the first time, on a custom-built ocean platform known as the autonomous spaceport drone ship. While SpaceX has already demonstrated two successful soft water landings, executing a precision landing on an unanchored ocean platform is significantly more challenging.
The odds of success are not great—perhaps 50% at best. However this test represents the first in a series of similar tests that will ultimately deliver a fully reusable Falcon 9 first stage.


Returning anything from space is a challenge, but returning a Falcon 9 first stage for a precision landing presents a number of additional hurdles. At 14 stories tall and traveling upwards of 1300 m/s (nearly 1 mi/s), stabilizing the Falcon 9 first stage for reentry is like trying to balance a rubber broomstick on your hand in the middle of a wind storm.
To help stabilize the stage and to reduce its speed, SpaceX relights the engines for a series of three burns. The first burn—the boostback burn—adjusts the impact point of the vehicle and is followed by the supersonic retro propulsion burn that, along with the drag of the atmosphere, slows the vehicle’s speed from 1300 m/s to about 250 m/s. The final burn is the landing burn, during which the legs deploy and the vehicle’s speed is further reduced to around 2 m/s.

Landing legs deployed just before soft water landing in the Atlantic Ocean
To complicate matters further, the landing site is limited in size and not entirely stationary. The autonomous spaceport drone ship is 300 by 100 feet, with wings that extend its width to 170 feet. While that may sound huge at first, to a Falcon 9 first stage coming from space, it seems very small. The legspan of the Falcon 9 first stage is about 70 feet and while the ship is equipped with powerful thrusters to help it stay in place, it is not actually anchored, so finding the bullseye becomes particularly tricky. During previous attempts, we could only expect a landing accuracy of within 10km. For this attempt, we’re targeting a landing accuracy of within 10 meters.
A key upgrade to enable precision targeting of the Falcon 9 all the way to touchdown is the addition of four hypersonic grid fins placed in an X-wing configuration around the vehicle, stowed on ascent and deployed on reentry to control the stage’s lift vector. Each fin moves independently for roll, pitch and yaw, and combined with the engine gimbaling, will allow for precision landing – first on the autonomous spaceport drone ship, and eventually on land.


The attempt to recover the first stage will begin after stage separation, once the Dragon spacecraft is safely on its way to orbit. The concept of landing a rocket on an ocean platform has been around for decades but it has never been attempted. Though the probability of success on this test is low, we expect to gather critical data to support future landing testing.
A fully and rapidly reusable rocket—which has never been done before—is the pivotal breakthrough needed to substantially reduce the cost of space access. While most rockets are designed to burn up on reentry, SpaceX is building rockets that not only withstand reentry, but also land safely on Earth to be refueled and fly again. Over the next year, SpaceX has at least a dozen launches planned with a number of additional testing opportunities. Given what we know today, we believe it is quite likely that with one of those flights we will not only be able to land a Falcon 9 first stage, but also re-fly.



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7052 times:
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Also: CRS-5 may be delayed pending a good static fire of the first stage. Yesterdays static fire attaempt resulted in an abort.


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6738 times:
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CRS-5 now set for 6 Jan...

http://www.spacex.com/press/2014/12/19/crs-5-launch-update



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

The static fire ended early, but was enough to OK launch if they wanted. But, they're being their normal overcautious selves and solar angles at the Station make 6 Jan the earliest they could launch now.


Anon
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6709 times:
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They also did a second static fire that was successful.


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5794 times:
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About 30 minutes now to the launch of CRS 5. SpaceX will attempt to recover the first stage booster by landing it on a drone ship. No issues being worked, wx is 90% go.


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User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1769 posts, RR: 2
Reply 94, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5788 times:
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At 1:30 minutes in countdown the thing was to put on hold. :/


Flying high and low
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5769 times:
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Quoting teme82 (Reply 94):

Unspecified actuator problem.



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User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1769 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5724 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 95):
Unspecified actuator problem.

Yeah. Looks like next try in Friday at 5:09 am. Good time for me  



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5486 times:
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Quoting teme82 (Reply 96):
Yeah. Looks like next try in Friday at 5:09 am. Good time for me

New launch time: Jan 10 0445EST or 0945UTC

Needed an extra day to evaluate previous launch attempt



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5230 times:
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CRS 5 first stage made it to the drone ship but landed hard. Drone ship is fine though stage crashed. Per Musk.

Great first attempt. I'm sure they'll get it next time.



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5185 times:
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NASA cancelled post launch news conference. Unusual move I think.

http://blogs.nasa.gov/spacex/2015/01...t-launch-news-conference-canceled/

I expect they, or SpaceX, chose not to discuss 1st stage landing attempt.



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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 100, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 99):
I expect they, or SpaceX, chose not to discuss 1st stage landing attempt.

Hmmm... not really Elon's style. In fact he tweeted pretty soon afterwards "Close but no cigar". My guess is they both realized that the landing attempt was "the news" and they simply needed to have more complete information and their ducks in a row in order to properly address the press.

We'll have to wait and see.

Now I want to see pictures of the drone ship, which Musk said is fine after the failure (which since the first stage would have very little fuel I can imagine there is not much of an "earth shattering BOOM" left in it). And video of the landing itself, form both the drone ship and the rocket.

To me the fact they actually hit the target is an excellent result in an of itself.

Tugg

[Edited 2015-01-10 10:29:00]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4996 times:
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Quoting Tugger (Reply 100):
Hmmm... not really Elon's style. In fact he tweeted pretty soon afterwards "Close but no cigar". My guess is they both realized that the landing attempt was "the news" and they simply needed to have more complete information and their ducks in a row in order to properly address the press.

Well it wasn't SpaceXs press conference, and I think NASA knew all the questions would be about the booster landing...

Musk tweeted a bit ago that the grid fins ran out of hydraulic fluid... and that next booster already has a 50% larger hydraulic tank for the fins. Almost sounds like they knew about the problem and flew anyway...



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User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1769 posts, RR: 2
Reply 102, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4971 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 101):

Musk tweeted a bit ago that the grid fins ran out of hydraulic fluid... and that next booster already has a 50% larger hydraulic tank for the fins. Almost sounds like they knew about the problem and flew anyway...

Well if they already made the darn thing why keeping it idle and gathering some dust? I bet they got loads of data that they need for perfecting the thing.



Flying high and low
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3978 posts, RR: 11
Reply 103, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 99):
NASA cancelled post launch news conference. Unusual move I think.

I'm guessing they want to gather more data before facing the press.

I doubt anybody's expectations were that high that they'd think this would be a walk in the park, but that won't stop the specialized reporters from preying on them like vultures.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13354 posts, RR: 77
Reply 104, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

Quoting teme82 (Reply 102):
Well if they already made the darn thing why keeping it idle and gathering some dust? I bet they got loads of data that they need for perfecting the thing.

Agreed. It's a goal that is well worth working towards, mishaps included. It would be such a game changer well beyond Space X's bottom line.
Better luck next time.


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4724 times:
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The drone ship just pulled into port. Pix here:

http://i.imgur.com/B8jGQk3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hmV0WsT.jpg

I see some charring and maybe some wreckage under a tarp on deck.

[Edited 2015-01-11 12:16:30]


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User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4381 posts, RR: 4
Reply 106, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

I'm seeing elsewhere its being reported as a exhaustion of the hydraulic fluid controlling the descent vanes - they hadn't properly accounted for the level of use and simply ran out near the end. Musk has said they will bump up the reserves for the next flight by an additional 50%.

User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 107, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4161 times:

Here are some images of the touchdown/impact:
http://qz.com/328139/elon-musk-relea...cex-rocket-on-a-floating-platform/


Gotta love Musk's flare for the irreverent, he called the event: a "Full RUD" - a "rapid unscheduled disassembly" event."

Tugg

[Edited 2015-01-16 08:16:25]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4083 times:
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Video of the landing here. Close but no cigar....

https://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

RUD is actually a rocket scientist acronym. Not the first time I've heard it used.

[Edited 2015-01-16 12:26:08]


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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 109, posted (2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 108):
Video of the landing here. Close but no cigar....

https://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

Wow, cool! I also would like to see the rockets point of view but the nighttime (early morning?) darkness obviously hinders what it can provide. The data stream is what's important and they have that.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 108):
RUD is actually a rocket scientist acronym. Not the first time I've heard it used.

Interesting, and funny! I had no idea, but then you know rocket scientists: They are just a laugh a minute so it shouldn't be unexpected!  

And we should learn more in just a few weeks:
http://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/556105370054053889
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/556105370054053889

"Next rocket landing on drone ship in 2 to 3 weeks w way more hydraulic fluid. At least it shd explode for a diff reason."

Again, you gotta love his nonchalance! It's good to be a billionaire. 

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4039 times:
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Quoting Tugger (Reply 109):

The other rocket acronym I hear used quite often is CATO.... catastrophe at take off



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3689 times:
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Next Falcon 9 1st stage landing attempt:

Jan. 31 Falcon 9 • DSCOVR
Launch time: 2330 GMT (6:30 p.m. EST)
Launch site: SLC-40, Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida

DSCOVR is a mission to the L1 LaGrange point formerly known as Triana

http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/DSCOVR/



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User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4381 posts, RR: 4
Reply 112, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3635 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 108):
RUD is actually a rocket scientist acronym. Not the first time I've heard it used

I'd guess its similar to PEBKAC in computer circles.


User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 112):
I'd guess its similar to PEBKAC in computer circles.

Not really: PEBKAC is when IT people get defensive / offensive vs. users (akin to RTFM or ID10T...)

IMO, RUD sounds a bit self-deprecatory. A bit like VISTA (Very Inconsistent Software - Try Again) coined by the Longhorn team a decade ago.

Kudos to Elon Musk, both for the achievements and for his style.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4381 posts, RR: 4
Reply 114, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 113):
Not really: PEBKAC is when IT people get defensive / offensive vs. users (akin to RTFM or ID10T...)

Completely disagree - PEBKAC is when there is no issue with the hardware or software, but rather the user is doing something wrong. Its a legitimate resolution to a reported issue.

RTFM and ID1OT are completely different.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 4106 posts, RR: 29
Reply 115, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3561 times:
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For us old farts, please spell out the phrase each time a new acronym is introduced..      

User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4381 posts, RR: 4
Reply 116, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 115):
For us old farts, please spell out the phrase each time a new acronym is introduced

PEBKAC is Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair.

ID1OT speaks for itself  

RTFM is Read the Fine Manual.


User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 114):
PEBKAC is when there is no issue with the hardware or software, but rather the user is doing something wrong. Its a legitimate resolution to a reported issue

Aw, I guess it depends on the (cultural) context. I think that in 20 yers I've never heard PEBKAC used without a definite, if implicit, meaning of "it's not my fault, this dumb user is wasting my time". Then again, RTFM is also a legit closure to a reported (non)issue, albeit a lot less politically correct  

@kanban: RTFM is also (usually) spelled out to "Read The Fu**ing Manual". Maybe I should consider moving to a gentler work environment...

Anyway, my point was: Musk's comment was not excusing himself in any way, or blaming bad luck, or minimizing failure. Bad days come with the profession. I like the attitude (he can afford it, I presume).


User currently onlinetommy1808 From Germany, joined Nov 2013, 2079 posts, RR: 6
Reply 118, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 117):
(he can afford it, I presume)

I guess it's a healthy case of "sometimes you win, sometimes you learn" attitude coupled with the financial means to absorb the learning experience.

Best regards
Thomas


User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 118):
I guess it's a healthy case of "sometimes you win, sometimes you learn" attitude coupled with the financial means to absorb the learning experience.

   Very well put. This will become a favorite quote of mines.

Besides, the "lesson" was pretty awesome: they came *really* close to soft-landing the thing, both in terms of delta-V and displacement. Attitude was off, though...


User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5956 posts, RR: 10
Reply 120, posted (2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3347 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 119):
Besides, the "lesson" was pretty awesome: they came *really* close to soft-landing the thing, both in terms of delta-V and displacement. Attitude was off, though...

The attitude element will be what interests me the most. They are aiming for a REALLY small target. That is a lot of final targeting work for the systems on board and potentially some large adjustments at the end as it nears the "300'x 170'" target. It is of course why the tank ran dry and needs to be enlarged . So I look forward to what they do next time, it was so close this time.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineZaphodHarkonnen From New Zealand, joined Jan 2015, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

I think it's more a case of anything hitting within a couple hundred metres would be considered a win on their first proper landing attempt. From day one this was always a test and they acknowledged that it could totally fail.

Remember they failed the first time they tried a soft landing in the ocean as during one of the deceleration burns the rocket spun so fast it threw the propellant to the sides of the tanks and the engines thus cut out.

Hell, the first couple successes are never going to reply anyways as they'll probably rip them apart for inspections.

The next landing attempt is going to be very neat though. ^_^


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3104 times:
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DSCOVR mission launch has slipped to 8 Feb at 1810L


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2377 times:
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Livestream link to todays launch:

http://new.livestream.com/spacex/eve...679f25&acc_id=6225011&medium=email



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2389 times:
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Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship as refurbished after the accident on the last launch. I understand "Just Read The Instructions" is a reference from sci fi literature.

SpaceX



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2374 times:
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Today is Jules Vernes birthday. Good Omen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Verne



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2286 times:
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Mid section of the booster launching tonight. Good view of the grid fins - these ran out of hydraulic fluid on the last landing attempt.

SpaceX



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2305 times:
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Scrubbed due to a tracking problem.

No other launch opportunities today due to the instantaneous launch window.

Edit: Air Force tracking radar went down causing the scrub. Also Musk tweeted that the first stage video transmitter was down, not needed for launch but they'll replace for tomorrows launch attempt.

[Edited 2015-02-08 15:33:46]


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2023 times:
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DSCOVR launch scrubbed due to upper level winds.


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1827 times:
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DSCOVR got off just a few minutes ago. No landing attempt though due to sea state and failed thruster on the ASDS.


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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1811 times:
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Musk tweets 1st stage landed vertically and within 10 meters of target. Good news...


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User currently offlineAviationAware From Germany, joined May 2014, 942 posts, RR: 3
Reply 131, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1653 times:

In case anyone is wondering (as I did) regarding the scale of the ship and Elon Musk's tweet saying the landing was within 10 meters of target: That means it would have touched down pretty much exactly some place on the yellow circle.
The white circle has a 40 meter diameter, and the yellow one just over 10.

It would be interesting to know what the implications of such a small deviation would be with regards to the balance of the ship, or how much deviation the ship can maximally take before capsizing, which seems rather unlikely in any case.
Falcon 9 First Stage weighs in at just under 20 tonnes empty without propellant, so I would say it's rather unlikely that even the most imbalanced landing would make it capsize at all, but sadly I am only a financial analyst and not an engineer so I would be happy for any input on that question.


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

That barge is around 1300 tons dry and probably has more than 1,000 tons of ballast. More, if the seas are heavy. And, barges are pretty much impossible to capsise unless you do it on purpose. (It is done on purpose for hull maintenence).
The booster is about as likely to capsise it as a butterfly landing off center.



Anon
User currently offlineAviationAware From Germany, joined May 2014, 942 posts, RR: 3
Reply 133, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Thanks, that's what I thought.

User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1553 times:
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Reasonable shot of the water landing. I'd be surprised if SpaceX didn't have an aircraft or ship in the area that got better photos...

Courtesy: SpaceX



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1220 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 129):
No landing attempt though due to sea state and failed thruster on the ASDS.

Per Aviation Week the ASDS is getting an upgrade to better handle extreme weather...

SpaceX now intends to equip the vessel with additional station-keeping capability. It is not clear whether this involves adding thrusters or bolstering the existing set of four units. Other changes to improve seaworthiness may also be included. Musk comments that the company is “planning a significant upgrade of the droneship for future missions to handle literally anything.”



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