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SpaceX's Grasshopper  
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Another space commercialization idea that may or may not work out is SpaceX's Grasshopper. The idea is to fly a Falcon 9 first stage back to its launch site & reuse it, thereby lowering the cost of getting to orbit.

Recently SpaceX had another successful test of the Grasshopper, flying the 12 story tall vehicle to a height of approximately 12 stories and then landing. Amazing thing to me here, vs other similiar vehicles, is the sheer size of the thing... It's BIG, note the vehicles around the launch pad...

http://youtu.be/B4PEXLODw9c


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161 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Animation of what a fully reusable Falcon 9 launch (less the trunk it seems) might look like...

http://youtu.be/OX2-qEC7P_I



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

I'd been wondering how they'd get the 2nd stage on the ground since an M1D would be way too powerful. It looks like 4 small thrusters. Super Dracos don't seem likely since you'd have to add hypergolic tanks.


Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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2nd stage is the difficult bit. Personally I think they'll be doing well to get the 1st stage back.


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User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting zanl188 (Reply 3):
2nd stage is the difficult bit.

Whilst that is probably true on the propulsion end, I'm not sure it is on the navigational side. The second stage is inserted into orbit and can be directed to de-orbit at any time with little fuel requirement and with the considerable aerobreaking meaning relatively little fuel will be needed to steer and retard the module for the final pad landing. The first stage does not get into an orbit, therefore to get it back to the initial launch pad requires you to burn not only to decelerate but indeed to reverse direction onto a ballistic trajectory back to the pad. This needs far more fuel, even for a relatively light stage. Much better IMO to land somewhere like the Azores (or possibly even further afield) and ship the rocket back home from there, which would still offer a saving over building a new one.

Of course the remote landing pad would somewhat complicate the weather requirements for go/no go decisions if the economics of the launch operation actually require the launcher to be reusable in every instance.

[Edited 2012-12-26 09:04:27]

User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Quoting GST (Reply 4):
Much better IMO to land somewhere like the Azores (or possibly even further afield) and ship the rocket back home from there, which would still offer a saving over building a new one.

Quite a bit of fuel would be needed to get as far down range as the Azores. Seems to me the thing to do would be to land on a large barge, maybe an old oil tanker, or a spit of land somewhere.

The other problem with going back to the launch site is range safety. Titusville is just on the other side of the river from the launch site... would be bad to drop a first stage on the neighbors.



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User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 5):
Quite a bit of fuel would be needed to get as far down range as the Azores. Seems to me the thing to do would be to land on a large barge, maybe an old oil tanker, or a spit of land somewhere.

More fuel than reversing direction? I'm not so sure. But I agree a floating pad would seem to be the most practical first stage recovery site as you can put it wherever is most convenient. Of course if it is convenient for first stage recovery it would almost certainly be in a location that you can easily bring the second stage down onto after payload insertion too which simplifies things massively.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 5):

The other problem with going back to the launch site is range safety. Titusville is just on the other side of the river from the launch site... would be bad to drop a first stage on the neighbors.

True, but is it any worse than a first stage going boom shortly after liftoff and raining rocket fuel on the vicinity? I'd love to see the relative risk assessments of those!


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Quoting GST (Reply 6):
True, but is it any worse than a first stage going boom shortly after liftoff and raining rocket fuel on the vicinity? I'd love to see the relative risk assessments of those!

Generally on liftoff the boosters are heading away from populated areas... In this case the booster is headed towards a populated area, big difference.



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User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Yes they do if working correctly, but the [remote] potential for harm remains which is what I was referring to.

User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 32767 times:

Spacex seems to be getting pretty serious about the Texas site. That would change the 1st stage recovery equation some. Texas to Florida is a whole lot more practical than Florida to the Azores. That would only be about 20% further than the 1st stage impacts now. Just a little lower trajectory could put the 1st stage right where they want it.

[Edited 2012-12-26 16:07:54]


Anon
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Some onboard video from last months test...

http://youtu.be/nUV6oqCFrFU



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 32767 times:
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Latest test. Twice as high as the previous... Note the cowboy figure for scale...

http://youtu.be/orUjSkc2pG0



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 31192 times:
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Another Grasshopper test from earlier this month...

http://youtu.be/eGimzB5QM1M



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 30406 times:

Nice, thanks for the links. I have no doubt that SpaceX can achieve what many others deem too difficult


maxter
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 29496 times:
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Flew a relatively aggressive lateral manuever yesterday.

http://youtu.be/2t15vP1PyoA



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 28261 times:
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I wonder if SpaceX had to pay for lost dairy production?

http://youtu.be/HXdjxPY2j_0



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User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 4141 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 28230 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 15):
I wonder if SpaceX had to pay for lost dairy production?

Can't tell if they are dairy cattle.. if they are just skip one step in making yogurt.. they were however probably destined for beef and may be a little tough.


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 27815 times:
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SpaceX will attempt to soft land the 1st stage of upcoming Falcon 9 launch from Vandenberg.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...cket-set-for-risky-launch/2814865/

This Falcon 9 is the new version with 8 engines arranged in a circle and the 9th engine in the center.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9

Although no landing gear will be installed on the 1st stage for this flight, they're trying for a soft ocean landing, this does represent the first use of Grasshopper technology.



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 27808 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 17):
This Falcon 9 is the new version with 8 engines arranged in a circle and the 9th engine in the center.

Putting the eight outer engines evenly under the tank walls like that allowed them to simplify and lighten the thrust structure. The new engines are half again as powerful as the old M1Cs and required some major changes in the rocket.
The next Grasshopper should be a lot more production grade. You'll know it's getting serious when they start making flights every week.



Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 27347 times:
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First Falcon 9 with the Grasshopper tech and uprated engines launches from Vandenberg on Sunday. I expect SpaceX will attempt to limit expectations, may not see any coverage. http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/006/status.html


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 27143 times:
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Some words from Elon Musk regarding todays Falcon 9 launch:

"I give pretty low odds of this recovery working on this flight," Musk said. "The point of this mission is demonstrating the ascent of the crewed version of the Falcon 9."



Gotta love Musks brevity... Talking about stage recovery in one sentence... and a crewed version of Falcon 9 in the next... Lol!

Launch window opens at 0900 PDT, 1200 EDT, or 1600 GMT. About an hour and 20 minutes from now

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/006/130928preview/

Where is MdmeConcorde?

Good luck SpaceX!



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 27117 times:
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Launch appears to have gone well.

No word on the 1st stage soft landing other than a relight of the engines was achieved...



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 27034 times:
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1st stage soft landing failed. Engines relit as planned however stage developed a roll due to aerodynamic forces. Roll forced propellants away from inlets and engine flamed out.

Next attempt at 1st stage soft landing: CRS-3

Launch video:

http://youtu.be/N0mLlO9enfY



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User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 26961 times:

Elon also tweeted:

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk 12u Between this flight & Grasshopper tests, I think we now have all the pieces of the puzzle to bring the rocket back home.

And that is pretty damn awesome me thinks!  



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 26651 times:
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"SpaceX CEO and Chief Designer Elon Musk has laid out his plans for recovery and reusability of the first stage of the Falcon 9. The debut mission to launch the Cassiope satellite into orbit included a number of events that should help SpaceX recover and possibly even reuse the first stage of the Falcon 9 in 2014."



http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/...plans-reusability-falcon-9-rocket/



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 26521 times:
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Interesting view of Mondays Grasshopper test flight to 744 meters. View from a quadracopter.

http://youtu.be/9ZDkItO-0a4



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 26207 times:
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Mission overview video of the last F9 launch. Contains a brief bit of video of the 1st stage relight.

This link will start right after 1st stage sep...

http://youtu.be/RtDbDMRG3q8?t=2m22s



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 26335 times:
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Pic of 1st stage impact...

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/.../spacexs-dragon-moved-february-11/



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 25829 times:

Probably not known, but where is the best guess that grasshopper testing will go to from 744m? How soon do you believe the landing struts will be fitted to F9 even if not used for an actual recovered landing/return.


maxter
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 25825 times:

Quoting maxter (Reply 28):
Probably not known, but where is the best guess that grasshopper testing will go to from 744m? How soon do you believe the landing struts will be fitted to F9 even if not used for an actual recovered landing/return.

They intend to put legs on CRS-3 in February, but won't delay the rocket if the legs aren't ready. The SE-8 and Thaicom missions require the full F9 capability and won't have any extra fuel or recovery gear included.
The next Grasshopper will test mainly from Spaceport America in New Mexico after a few flights at McGregor. It's reported to have 3 engines for this stage of testing.



Anon
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 25409 times:

So much for my sources. Gwenne Shotwell from SpaceX now says
"So what we're moving to now is what we call the Falcon Niner — Falcon 9R reusable — and that is a full Falcon 9 first stage, 9 engines and retractable landing gear. So that is the vehicle that we will be bringing to New Mexico".



Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 25397 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 30):
"So what we're moving to now is what we call the Falcon Niner — Falcon 9R reusable — and that is a full Falcon 9 first stage, 9 engines and retractable landing gear. So that is the vehicle that we will be bringing to New Mexico".

Will this be Grasshopper 2 then? They'll need to fly it quick if they intended to recover CRS-3.



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 25252 times:

Yes thanks for that, wonder if they use it for CRS3 then, if so where will the recovery location be?

Cheers and thanks



maxter
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 25213 times:

I don't think there's serious consideration of landing the CRS-3 booster. They'd like to fly the whole recovery profile and test the leg deployment, but it will still wind up in the water. Hopefully, they can get it back intact from there.


Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 23381 times:
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Pix here of the Cassiope first stage about to impact. Note engine appears to be firing...

http://www.zerognews.com/2013/10/15/...d-video-of-next-gen-falcon-9-demo/



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 22326 times:
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CRS-3 will have legs and attempt soft splashdown of the first stage.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/...port-legs-attempt-soft-splashdown/



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User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21974 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 35):

CRS-3 will have legs and attempt soft splashdown of the first stage.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/...down/

A picture Tweeted by Elon ( https://twitter.com/elonmusk );


"Mounting landing legs (~60 ft span) to Falcon 9 for next month's Space Station servicing flight"

"However, F9 will continue to land in the ocean until we prove precision control from hypersonic thru subsonic regimes"

2014 is turning out be an awesome spaceflight year  



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20843 times:

Well, in the space of two days, the three engine next version of Grasshopper made it's maiden fight at McGregor and CRS3 went off with the 1st stage making a soft landing in the ocean. Apparently, there are two three engine test version of the recoverable first stage. One will stay in McGregor and one will test in New Mexico. The 9 engine Grasshopper 2 story was an old one before they changed it to 3 engines. Gwenne jumped the gun a little with that one.


Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 20789 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 37):

Video of yesterdays F9R flight:

http://youtu.be/0UjWqQPWmsY

Waiting for hard data on how CRS3 1st stage landing went...

Going to be an exciting year for SpaceX....



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 20200 times:
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Elon Musk / SpaceX press conference regarding CRS-3 boost stage landing. Also took question regarding law suit SpaceX recently filed against US Govt.

http://youtu.be/3p2D701zfZU

Stage landed intact, however broke up due to wave action. They have video however it's of poor quality and they are trying to clean it up prior to release. Musk expects a boost stage to make a landing at Canaveral prior to the end of 2014.



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User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13379 posts, RR: 77
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 20134 times:

Another step in what could be one of the most significant advances in access to space ever.
The mind boggles when you consider that if this becomes standard on the Falcon range, including planned heavy lift versions, what the implications for not only access to low Earth orbit but potentially also for exploration, including manned, of the Moon, Asteroids and Mars.


User currently onlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 19990 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
Another step in what could be one of the most significant advances in access to space ever.

And to think, accomplished by one small company essentially still in it's infancy (relatively speaking) that is competing against master rocket builders like Boeing, LM, and even NASA itself. Musk should slap stickers on Teslas that say "My Other Car is a Falcon 9 Soft Lander". This guy is a different category of Homo Sapiens.


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 19993 times:
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Quoting wingman (Reply 41):

At $400M a pop on a sole source contract I can understand why ULA wants to ride the gravy train as long as possible. As a taxpayer though I've got to root for Musk & SpaceX.



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19909 times:

The FH will actually be more of a problem. The center core will be a lot faster and farther downrange than an F9 first stage when it's separates, so it will take a lot more to get it back home.


Anon
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19909 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 43):
The FH will actually be more of a problem. The center core will be a lot faster and farther downrange than an F9 first stage when it's separates, so it will take a lot more to get it back home.

Would you not simply go suborbital and circle round to "get it back home"? A Pacific landing could be fairly simple to achieve I would think.

Tugg



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19876 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 44):

Adds a lot of weight for thermal protection. Maybe when they sort out a way to recover the second stage.



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User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 19804 times:

Although not entirely related to the recoverable first stage, there's some pretty cool footage of the CRS-3 launch available on the tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od-lON4bTyQ

Launch happens at 40:00, staging at 42:45, and Dragon separation just past 50:00. I found especially the video footage of the red glow of the second stage engine nozzle pretty amazing.

(Did not find a CRS-3 thread on here, so I'm posting it here.)



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 19618 times:
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Latest F9R test, this time to 1000M..

http://youtu.be/ZwwS4YOTbbw



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 19596 times:
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FWIW, CRS-3 first stage landing video:

http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/04/29/first-stage-landing-video

Not much there but it's clear the legs deployed as planned



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 19228 times:

Some info on CRS-3 soft ocean landing outcomes - Elon at the National Press Club

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcgfHslGjII



maxter
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18577 times:
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More enhanced CRS3 landing video from NASASpaceflight.com. Shows leg deploy:

http://youtu.be/XoufUV5oGTo

Related news:

FAA has published a draft environmental impact statement for DragonFly testing at SpaceXs Texas testing site. Dragonfly is the propulsive landing test article for the crewed Dragon, now named Dragon V2. Testing expected to begin late this year and will include both parachute and rocket landing tests.

Dragon V2 was unveiled by Elon Musk on Thursday night. In a very Tony Stark style if you ask me... Video here:

http://youtu.be/yEQrmDoIRO8



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17941 times:
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F9R goes to 1000M and deploys steering fins....

http://youtu.be/DgLBIdVg3EM



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 18062 times:

I hadn't heard of those grid fins before I saw that video. Pretty cool. It's starting to look like a spaceship.


Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17893 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 52):

I'd heard about the fins, wasn't sure what form they'd take. Didn't know they'd display so much motion...

I'm getting the itch to see 3 cores return after a F9H launch.....



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User currently offlineairplaneaddict From United States of America, joined May 2010, 12 posts, RR: 4
Reply 54, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17892 times:

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ launch in 16 minutes

User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 17825 times:
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Quoting airplaneaddict (Reply 54):

Scrubbed due to a 2nd stage pressurization problem. Rescheduled to this afternoon at 1746 EDT. Not sure if they'll attempt a soft landing with the first stage... Anybody know?



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 17808 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 55):
Not sure if they'll attempt a soft landing with the first stage... Anybody know?

Not on land. But the ocean landing (oceaning?) will be a lot closer to shore, so they should get a lot better video.
I'm wondering if it's about time to fire the head Helium guy at SpaceX. Just about every recent problem they've had is helium related.



Anon
User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 17789 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 56):
But the ocean landing (oceaning?)

I think that would be considered a controlled splash-down.


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 17798 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 56):

Well it has legs... and shiny engines....


Courtesy: Spaceflightnow.com



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17761 times:
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Launch time now 1839 EDT, about 45 minutes from now. No webcast for this attempt... 

edit: scrub! No go for weather

[Edited 2014-06-21 15:31:39]


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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17717 times:

They'll try again tomorrow (Sunday) with a 4 hour window. Orbcomm is only half a payload, so they have plenty of leeway for a wide launch window and still have fuel for the 1st stage return test.
Almost makes you wonder why they need Grasshopper if they can already bring it back.



Anon
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 61, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17703 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 52):
I hadn't heard of those grid fins before I saw that video. Pretty cool. It's starting to look like a spaceship.

The Russians use them on the R-77 missile (a rough equivalent of the AMRAAM), and the have been used on the MOAB  


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17664 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 60):

They need to satisfy the FAA and the range that they can bring it back on target.

I suspect the reason for no webcast yesterday is they knew weather was iffy and likely no chance to fly. Doesn't look much better, weather wise, for today.



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 17595 times:
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Scrubbed for weather today. I understand wx was bad enough they didn't even tank. Next opportunity looks like Tuesday afternoon.


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17274 times:
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Final CRS-3 landing video restoration:

http://youtu.be/CjZ33C9JZTM



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Reply 65, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16723 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 63):
Scrubbed for weather today. I understand wx was bad enough they didn't even tank. Next opportunity looks like Tuesday afternoon.

Orbcomm launch is now set for 1144 EDT today, a little more than 3 hours from now. Weather is 50/50 at the moment and gets worse as the day goes by.

Spaceflightnow.com has fairly decent coverage here:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/010/status.html

[Edited 2014-07-14 05:39:42]


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 16709 times:
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Launch now set for 1115 EDT. Weather 60% favorable.


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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 67, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 16689 times:

Nice launch! Now wondering about the first stage recovery/landing....

Tugg



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16693 times:
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Twitter from Musk states:

Rocket booster reentry, landing burn & leg deploy were good, but lost hull integrity right after splashdown (aka kaboom)



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16714 times:

All 6 satellites successfully deployed. The stage re-entered, deployed legs and made a soft landing, but the tank lost integrity and it sank. Could be that hot engine doesn't take well to being dunked in cold water. The stage isn't really meant to tip over and float on waves anyhow. It might never stay intact with water landings. Hopefully, it's shallow enough to recover this time. If it looks like it's reliably controllable, maybe they can start bringing it back to land soon.


Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 16291 times:
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YouTube video of 1st stage reentry and landing for the Orbcomm launch.

Lens ices up after the reentry burn.

http://youtu.be/CQnR5fhCXkQ



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Reply 71, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16276 times:
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http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/07/2...-lands-falcon-9-rocket-first-stage

At this point, we are highly confident of being able to land successfully on a floating launch pad or back at the launch site and refly the rocket with no required refurbishment. However, our next couple launches are for very high velocity geostationary satellite missions, which don’t allow enough residual propellant for landing. In the longer term, missions like that will fly on Falcon Heavy, but until then Falcon 9 will need to fly in expendable mode.

We will attempt our next water landing on flight 13 of Falcon 9, but with a low probability of success. Flights 14 and 15 will attempt to land on a solid surface with an improved probability of success.



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15605 times:
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Orbcomm launch first stage landing, as seen from plane..

http://youtu.be/uIlu7szab5I



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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 73, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15524 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 72):
Orbcomm launch first stage landing, as seen from plane..

Interesting video. Nice stable fall though supersonic. Really sad that they lost track on the stage when they zoomed. I am surprised that he camera man does not know that the first thing you do when you site during a zoom is "unzoom" so you can locate again. I mean just as it was touching down.... jeez.

Tugg



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 15222 times:
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F9R test flight terminated by flight termination system today near McGregor Texas...

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space...er-anomaly-over-texas-town-n186436



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15170 times:

Well, they said they were going to push it till it made an earth shattering kaboom. Chalk up a successful FTS test.


Anon
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 76, posted (8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15157 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 74):
F9R test flight terminated by flight termination system today near McGregor Texas...

I wonder if it took out the video drone...

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15455 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 75):
earth shattering kaboom

Well we know the space modulator works anyways.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 76):
I wonder if it took out the video drone...

I hope not... Will SpaceX release the video if it didn't? I'm thinking not  Still waiting for DreamChaser gear up landing video...



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 14988 times:
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SpaceX delaying Falcon 9 launches pending review of the F9R accident:

http://news.discovery.com/space/priv...cial&utm_campaign=DiscoveryChannel



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14906 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 78):
SpaceX delaying Falcon 9 launches pending review of the F9R accident:

http://news.discovery.com/space/priv...cial&utm_campaign=DiscoveryChannel

They weren't going to since the problem with the test rocket wouldn't have been a problem with the real F9, but that and another helium leak got them thinking that they really needed to look at their processes. Redundancy is good, but when it leads to complacency it can cause a lot of failures.



Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13807 times:
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SpaceX building floating platform to land Falcon 9 first stages...

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/te...anding-floating-platform/17847817/



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12719 times:
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SpaceX has a landing barge.....

Courtesy: SpaceX



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12595 times:

Hard to believe they built that just for a few tests. After they start returning to land, the platform might be for recovering the central core for the Heavies and F9 1st stages where they don't want to sacrifice too much payload for RTL ability.


Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12592 times:
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Musk mentioned in another tweet yesterday that the barge had provision for a refuel & relaunch capability to get the first stage back to the launch site.


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12602 times:
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Musk tweet from yesterday:

"Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future"

He also calls the barge a "Autonomous spaceport drone ship"



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User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 7534 posts, RR: 14
Reply 85, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12490 times:

Whatever the success of this, at least they do something, not just talk about it. Landing the thing, refueling it for a flight back to the launch pad is a crazy idea !


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12487 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 84):
He also calls the barge a "Autonomous spaceport drone ship"

I wonder if they added the "drone" after somebody noticed the unflattering acronym.



Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11656 times:
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Looks like on CRS-5, launching this friday, SpaceX will be making a serious attempt to recover the first stage. NASA TV will be covering the launch.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/st.../spacex_crs5_briefings_events.html

SpaceX CRS-5 Briefings and Events December 11, 2014The fifth SpaceX cargo mission to the International Space Station (ISS) under NASA's Commercial Resupply Services contract is scheduled to launch Friday, Dec. 19, from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. NASA Television coverage of the launch begins at 12:15 p.m. EST.

The company's Falcon 9 rocket will lift off at 1:20 p.m., carrying its Dragon cargo spacecraft. It is loaded with more than 3,700 pounds of scientific experiments, technology demonstrations and supplies, including critical materials to support 256 science and research investigations that will take place on the space station during ISS Expeditions 42 and 43.

In addition to launch coverage, NASA also will host a series of prelaunch news conferences Thursday, Dec. 18, at the agency's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. All briefings, which are subject to a change in time, will air live on NASA TV and the agency's website.

Prelaunch News Conference on NASA TV

Thursday, Dec. 18 (L-1 day): The prelaunch news conference will be held at Kennedy’s Press Site at noon. NASA Television will provide live coverage as well as streaming internet coverage.

Participants in the briefing will be:


•Mike Suffredini, International Space Station Program Manager, NASA
•Hans Koenigsmann, VP of Mission Assurance, SpaceX
•Kathy Winters, 45th Weather Squadron Rep, USAF
ISS Research and Technology panel on NASA TV

Thursday, Dec. 18 (L-1 day): An ISS Research and Technology panel will be held at Kennedy’s Press Site at 1:30 p.m. NASA Television will provide live coverage, as well as streaming internet coverage.

Participants in the panel will be:


•Julie Robinson, ISS Program chief scientist, NASA’sJohnson Space Center, Houston
•Michael Roberts, CASIS Sr. Research Pathway Manager
•Cheryl Nickerson, Micro-5 PI, Arizona State University
•Samuel Durrance, NR-SABOL PI, Florida Institute of Technology
CATS Earth Science Instrument Briefing on NASA TV

Thursday, Dec. 18 (L-1 day): A Cloud-Aerosol Transport System (CATS) briefing will be held at Kennedy’s Press Site at 3 p.m. NASA Television will provide live coverage, as well as streaming internet coverage.

Participants in the briefing will be:


•Julie Robinson, ISS Program chief scientist, NASA’s Johnson Space Center, Houston
•Colleen Hartman, deputy director for science, NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
•Robert J. Swap, program scientist, NASA Headquarters Earth Science Division, Washington
•Matthew McGill, CATS principal investigator, NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland
Post-launch News Conference on NASA TV

Friday, Dec. 19: A post-launch news conference will be held at approximately 60 minutes after launch. NASA Television will provide live coverage, as well as streaming Internet coverage.

Participants in the post-launch news conference will be:


•Mike Suffredini, International Space Station Program Manager, NASA
•Hans Koenigsmann, VP of Mission Assurance, SpaceX
NASA TV LAUNCH COVERAGE

Friday, Dec. 19 (Launch day): NASA TV live coverage will begin at 12:15 p.m. EST and conclude at approximately 2 p.m. For NASA TV downlink information, schedules and links to streaming video, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv

Audio only of the news conferences and launch coverage will be carried on the NASA “V” circuits, which may be accessed by dialing 321-867-1220, -1240, -1260 or -7135. On launch day, "mission audio," the launch conductor’s countdown activities without NASA TV launch commentary, will be carried on 321-867-7135 starting at noon. Launch also will be available on local amateur VHF radio frequency 146.940 MHz heard within Brevard County on the Space Coast.

Courtesy: NASA



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11149 times:
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SpaceX statement regarding CRS-5:

X Marks the Spot: Falcon 9 Attempts Ocean Platform Landing
During our next flight, SpaceX will attempt the precision landing of a Falcon 9 first stage for the first time, on a custom-built ocean platform known as the autonomous spaceport drone ship. While SpaceX has already demonstrated two successful soft water landings, executing a precision landing on an unanchored ocean platform is significantly more challenging.
The odds of success are not great—perhaps 50% at best. However this test represents the first in a series of similar tests that will ultimately deliver a fully reusable Falcon 9 first stage.


Returning anything from space is a challenge, but returning a Falcon 9 first stage for a precision landing presents a number of additional hurdles. At 14 stories tall and traveling upwards of 1300 m/s (nearly 1 mi/s), stabilizing the Falcon 9 first stage for reentry is like trying to balance a rubber broomstick on your hand in the middle of a wind storm.
To help stabilize the stage and to reduce its speed, SpaceX relights the engines for a series of three burns. The first burn—the boostback burn—adjusts the impact point of the vehicle and is followed by the supersonic retro propulsion burn that, along with the drag of the atmosphere, slows the vehicle’s speed from 1300 m/s to about 250 m/s. The final burn is the landing burn, during which the legs deploy and the vehicle’s speed is further reduced to around 2 m/s.

Landing legs deployed just before soft water landing in the Atlantic Ocean
To complicate matters further, the landing site is limited in size and not entirely stationary. The autonomous spaceport drone ship is 300 by 100 feet, with wings that extend its width to 170 feet. While that may sound huge at first, to a Falcon 9 first stage coming from space, it seems very small. The legspan of the Falcon 9 first stage is about 70 feet and while the ship is equipped with powerful thrusters to help it stay in place, it is not actually anchored, so finding the bullseye becomes particularly tricky. During previous attempts, we could only expect a landing accuracy of within 10km. For this attempt, we’re targeting a landing accuracy of within 10 meters.
A key upgrade to enable precision targeting of the Falcon 9 all the way to touchdown is the addition of four hypersonic grid fins placed in an X-wing configuration around the vehicle, stowed on ascent and deployed on reentry to control the stage’s lift vector. Each fin moves independently for roll, pitch and yaw, and combined with the engine gimbaling, will allow for precision landing – first on the autonomous spaceport drone ship, and eventually on land.


The attempt to recover the first stage will begin after stage separation, once the Dragon spacecraft is safely on its way to orbit. The concept of landing a rocket on an ocean platform has been around for decades but it has never been attempted. Though the probability of success on this test is low, we expect to gather critical data to support future landing testing.
A fully and rapidly reusable rocket—which has never been done before—is the pivotal breakthrough needed to substantially reduce the cost of space access. While most rockets are designed to burn up on reentry, SpaceX is building rockets that not only withstand reentry, but also land safely on Earth to be refueled and fly again. Over the next year, SpaceX has at least a dozen launches planned with a number of additional testing opportunities. Given what we know today, we believe it is quite likely that with one of those flights we will not only be able to land a Falcon 9 first stage, but also re-fly.



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11159 times:
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Also: CRS-5 may be delayed pending a good static fire of the first stage. Yesterdays static fire attaempt resulted in an abort.


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10845 times:
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CRS-5 now set for 6 Jan...

http://www.spacex.com/press/2014/12/19/crs-5-launch-update



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10816 times:

The static fire ended early, but was enough to OK launch if they wanted. But, they're being their normal overcautious selves and solar angles at the Station make 6 Jan the earliest they could launch now.


Anon
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10816 times:
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They also did a second static fire that was successful.


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9901 times:
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About 30 minutes now to the launch of CRS 5. SpaceX will attempt to recover the first stage booster by landing it on a drone ship. No issues being worked, wx is 90% go.


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User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1777 posts, RR: 2
Reply 94, posted (3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9895 times:
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At 1:30 minutes in countdown the thing was to put on hold. :/


Flying high and low
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9876 times:
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Quoting teme82 (Reply 94):

Unspecified actuator problem.



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User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1777 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9831 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 95):
Unspecified actuator problem.

Yeah. Looks like next try in Friday at 5:09 am. Good time for me  



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9593 times:
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Quoting teme82 (Reply 96):
Yeah. Looks like next try in Friday at 5:09 am. Good time for me

New launch time: Jan 10 0445EST or 0945UTC

Needed an extra day to evaluate previous launch attempt



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9339 times:
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CRS 5 first stage made it to the drone ship but landed hard. Drone ship is fine though stage crashed. Per Musk.

Great first attempt. I'm sure they'll get it next time.



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9294 times:
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NASA cancelled post launch news conference. Unusual move I think.

http://blogs.nasa.gov/spacex/2015/01...t-launch-news-conference-canceled/

I expect they, or SpaceX, chose not to discuss 1st stage landing attempt.



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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 100, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9146 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 99):
I expect they, or SpaceX, chose not to discuss 1st stage landing attempt.

Hmmm... not really Elon's style. In fact he tweeted pretty soon afterwards "Close but no cigar". My guess is they both realized that the landing attempt was "the news" and they simply needed to have more complete information and their ducks in a row in order to properly address the press.

We'll have to wait and see.

Now I want to see pictures of the drone ship, which Musk said is fine after the failure (which since the first stage would have very little fuel I can imagine there is not much of an "earth shattering BOOM" left in it). And video of the landing itself, form both the drone ship and the rocket.

To me the fact they actually hit the target is an excellent result in an of itself.

Tugg

[Edited 2015-01-10 10:29:00]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9106 times:
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Quoting Tugger (Reply 100):
Hmmm... not really Elon's style. In fact he tweeted pretty soon afterwards "Close but no cigar". My guess is they both realized that the landing attempt was "the news" and they simply needed to have more complete information and their ducks in a row in order to properly address the press.

Well it wasn't SpaceXs press conference, and I think NASA knew all the questions would be about the booster landing...

Musk tweeted a bit ago that the grid fins ran out of hydraulic fluid... and that next booster already has a 50% larger hydraulic tank for the fins. Almost sounds like they knew about the problem and flew anyway...



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User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1777 posts, RR: 2
Reply 102, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9091 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 101):

Musk tweeted a bit ago that the grid fins ran out of hydraulic fluid... and that next booster already has a 50% larger hydraulic tank for the fins. Almost sounds like they knew about the problem and flew anyway...

Well if they already made the darn thing why keeping it idle and gathering some dust? I bet they got loads of data that they need for perfecting the thing.



Flying high and low
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 4012 posts, RR: 11
Reply 103, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 99):
NASA cancelled post launch news conference. Unusual move I think.

I'm guessing they want to gather more data before facing the press.

I doubt anybody's expectations were that high that they'd think this would be a walk in the park, but that won't stop the specialized reporters from preying on them like vultures.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13379 posts, RR: 77
Reply 104, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8976 times:

Quoting teme82 (Reply 102):
Well if they already made the darn thing why keeping it idle and gathering some dust? I bet they got loads of data that they need for perfecting the thing.

Agreed. It's a goal that is well worth working towards, mishaps included. It would be such a game changer well beyond Space X's bottom line.
Better luck next time.


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8844 times:
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The drone ship just pulled into port. Pix here:

http://i.imgur.com/B8jGQk3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hmV0WsT.jpg

I see some charring and maybe some wreckage under a tarp on deck.

[Edited 2015-01-11 12:16:30]


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User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 106, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8814 times:

I'm seeing elsewhere its being reported as a exhaustion of the hydraulic fluid controlling the descent vanes - they hadn't properly accounted for the level of use and simply ran out near the end. Musk has said they will bump up the reserves for the next flight by an additional 50%.

User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 107, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8281 times:

Here are some images of the touchdown/impact:
http://qz.com/328139/elon-musk-relea...cex-rocket-on-a-floating-platform/


Gotta love Musk's flare for the irreverent, he called the event: a "Full RUD" - a "rapid unscheduled disassembly" event."

Tugg

[Edited 2015-01-16 08:16:25]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8203 times:
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Video of the landing here. Close but no cigar....

https://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

RUD is actually a rocket scientist acronym. Not the first time I've heard it used.

[Edited 2015-01-16 12:26:08]


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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 109, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8177 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 108):
Video of the landing here. Close but no cigar....

https://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

Wow, cool! I also would like to see the rockets point of view but the nighttime (early morning?) darkness obviously hinders what it can provide. The data stream is what's important and they have that.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 108):
RUD is actually a rocket scientist acronym. Not the first time I've heard it used.

Interesting, and funny! I had no idea, but then you know rocket scientists: They are just a laugh a minute so it shouldn't be unexpected!  

And we should learn more in just a few weeks:
http://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/556105370054053889
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/556105370054053889

"Next rocket landing on drone ship in 2 to 3 weeks w way more hydraulic fluid. At least it shd explode for a diff reason."

Again, you gotta love his nonchalance! It's good to be a billionaire. 

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8159 times:
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Quoting Tugger (Reply 109):

The other rocket acronym I hear used quite often is CATO.... catastrophe at take off



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7809 times:
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Next Falcon 9 1st stage landing attempt:

Jan. 31 Falcon 9 • DSCOVR
Launch time: 2330 GMT (6:30 p.m. EST)
Launch site: SLC-40, Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida

DSCOVR is a mission to the L1 LaGrange point formerly known as Triana

http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/DSCOVR/



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User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 112, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7755 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 108):
RUD is actually a rocket scientist acronym. Not the first time I've heard it used

I'd guess its similar to PEBKAC in computer circles.


User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7722 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 112):
I'd guess its similar to PEBKAC in computer circles.

Not really: PEBKAC is when IT people get defensive / offensive vs. users (akin to RTFM or ID10T...)

IMO, RUD sounds a bit self-deprecatory. A bit like VISTA (Very Inconsistent Software - Try Again) coined by the Longhorn team a decade ago.

Kudos to Elon Musk, both for the achievements and for his style.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 114, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7720 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 113):
Not really: PEBKAC is when IT people get defensive / offensive vs. users (akin to RTFM or ID10T...)

Completely disagree - PEBKAC is when there is no issue with the hardware or software, but rather the user is doing something wrong. Its a legitimate resolution to a reported issue.

RTFM and ID1OT are completely different.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 4141 posts, RR: 29
Reply 115, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7684 times:
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For us old farts, please spell out the phrase each time a new acronym is introduced..      

User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4482 posts, RR: 4
Reply 116, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 115):
For us old farts, please spell out the phrase each time a new acronym is introduced

PEBKAC is Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair.

ID1OT speaks for itself  

RTFM is Read the Fine Manual.


User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7599 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 114):
PEBKAC is when there is no issue with the hardware or software, but rather the user is doing something wrong. Its a legitimate resolution to a reported issue

Aw, I guess it depends on the (cultural) context. I think that in 20 yers I've never heard PEBKAC used without a definite, if implicit, meaning of "it's not my fault, this dumb user is wasting my time". Then again, RTFM is also a legit closure to a reported (non)issue, albeit a lot less politically correct  

@kanban: RTFM is also (usually) spelled out to "Read The Fu**ing Manual". Maybe I should consider moving to a gentler work environment...

Anyway, my point was: Musk's comment was not excusing himself in any way, or blaming bad luck, or minimizing failure. Bad days come with the profession. I like the attitude (he can afford it, I presume).


User currently offlinetommy1808 From Germany, joined Nov 2013, 2274 posts, RR: 10
Reply 118, posted (3 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 117):
(he can afford it, I presume)

I guess it's a healthy case of "sometimes you win, sometimes you learn" attitude coupled with the financial means to absorb the learning experience.

Best regards
Thomas


User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 119, posted (3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 118):
I guess it's a healthy case of "sometimes you win, sometimes you learn" attitude coupled with the financial means to absorb the learning experience.

   Very well put. This will become a favorite quote of mines.

Besides, the "lesson" was pretty awesome: they came *really* close to soft-landing the thing, both in terms of delta-V and displacement. Attitude was off, though...


User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 120, posted (3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 119):
Besides, the "lesson" was pretty awesome: they came *really* close to soft-landing the thing, both in terms of delta-V and displacement. Attitude was off, though...

The attitude element will be what interests me the most. They are aiming for a REALLY small target. That is a lot of final targeting work for the systems on board and potentially some large adjustments at the end as it nears the "300'x 170'" target. It is of course why the tank ran dry and needs to be enlarged . So I look forward to what they do next time, it was so close this time.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineZaphodHarkonnen From New Zealand, joined Jan 2015, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7367 times:

I think it's more a case of anything hitting within a couple hundred metres would be considered a win on their first proper landing attempt. From day one this was always a test and they acknowledged that it could totally fail.

Remember they failed the first time they tried a soft landing in the ocean as during one of the deceleration burns the rocket spun so fast it threw the propellant to the sides of the tanks and the engines thus cut out.

Hell, the first couple successes are never going to reply anyways as they'll probably rip them apart for inspections.

The next landing attempt is going to be very neat though. ^_^


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7230 times:
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DSCOVR mission launch has slipped to 8 Feb at 1810L


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6505 times:
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Livestream link to todays launch:

http://new.livestream.com/spacex/eve...679f25&acc_id=6225011&medium=email



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6520 times:
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Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship as refurbished after the accident on the last launch. I understand "Just Read The Instructions" is a reference from sci fi literature.

SpaceX



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6502 times:
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Today is Jules Vernes birthday. Good Omen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Verne



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6416 times:
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Mid section of the booster launching tonight. Good view of the grid fins - these ran out of hydraulic fluid on the last landing attempt.

SpaceX



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6557 times:
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Scrubbed due to a tracking problem.

No other launch opportunities today due to the instantaneous launch window.

Edit: Air Force tracking radar went down causing the scrub. Also Musk tweeted that the first stage video transmitter was down, not needed for launch but they'll replace for tomorrows launch attempt.

[Edited 2015-02-08 15:33:46]


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6273 times:
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DSCOVR launch scrubbed due to upper level winds.


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6079 times:
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DSCOVR got off just a few minutes ago. No landing attempt though due to sea state and failed thruster on the ASDS.


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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6071 times:
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Musk tweets 1st stage landed vertically and within 10 meters of target. Good news...


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User currently offlineAviationAware From Germany, joined May 2014, 984 posts, RR: 3
Reply 131, posted (2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5916 times:

In case anyone is wondering (as I did) regarding the scale of the ship and Elon Musk's tweet saying the landing was within 10 meters of target: That means it would have touched down pretty much exactly some place on the yellow circle.
The white circle has a 40 meter diameter, and the yellow one just over 10.

It would be interesting to know what the implications of such a small deviation would be with regards to the balance of the ship, or how much deviation the ship can maximally take before capsizing, which seems rather unlikely in any case.
Falcon 9 First Stage weighs in at just under 20 tonnes empty without propellant, so I would say it's rather unlikely that even the most imbalanced landing would make it capsize at all, but sadly I am only a financial analyst and not an engineer so I would be happy for any input on that question.


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

That barge is around 1300 tons dry and probably has more than 1,000 tons of ballast. More, if the seas are heavy. And, barges are pretty much impossible to capsise unless you do it on purpose. (It is done on purpose for hull maintenence).
The booster is about as likely to capsise it as a butterfly landing off center.



Anon
User currently offlineAviationAware From Germany, joined May 2014, 984 posts, RR: 3
Reply 133, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

Thanks, that's what I thought.

User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5833 times:
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Reasonable shot of the water landing. I'd be surprised if SpaceX didn't have an aircraft or ship in the area that got better photos...

Courtesy: SpaceX



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5507 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 129):
No landing attempt though due to sea state and failed thruster on the ASDS.

Per Aviation Week the ASDS is getting an upgrade to better handle extreme weather...

SpaceX now intends to equip the vessel with additional station-keeping capability. It is not clear whether this involves adding thrusters or bolstering the existing set of four units. Other changes to improve seaworthiness may also be included. Musk comments that the company is “planning a significant upgrade of the droneship for future missions to handle literally anything.”



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User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (3 weeks 4 days 15 hours 38 minutes ago) and read 3937 times:

Well, hopefully a bit of further progress this time...

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/sp...-falcon9-ocean-landing-test-2015-4

I would love to see them achieve this. It will truly be a milestone in rocketry and space flight.



maxter
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (3 weeks 2 days 13 hours 49 minutes ago) and read 3556 times:
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Next attempt at Falcon 9 1st stage landing on the ASDS will follow the CRS-6 launch which occurs 13 Apr at 1633 EDT or 2033 GMT.


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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 138, posted (3 weeks 4 hours 23 minutes ago) and read 3205 times:

Launch scrubbed due to weather. Next launch attempt is tomorrow.


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (3 weeks 2 hours 47 minutes ago) and read 3161 times:
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Tomorrows attempt is scheduled for 1610 EDT or 2010 GMT


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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 140, posted (3 weeks 2 hours 17 minutes ago) and read 3150 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 139):
Tomorrows attempt is scheduled for 1610 EDT or 2010 GMT

Where (approximately) off the coast in the landing drone ship?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (3 weeks 1 hour 11 minutes ago) and read 3140 times:

Quoting Tugger (Reply 140):

Where (approximately) off the coast in the landing drone ship?

Tugg

About 200 miles ENE of Jacksonville, Florida.



Anon
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 142, posted (2 weeks 6 days 5 hours 7 minutes ago) and read 2934 times:

Successful lift-off!

Now we wait for the landing...

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 143, posted (2 weeks 6 days 4 hours 52 minutes ago) and read 2931 times:

Quoting Tugger (Reply 142):
Now we wait for the landing...

Where will the first news appears on the success or failure of the landing attempt? Elon's Twitter account? Or...?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 144, posted (2 weeks 6 days 4 hours 45 minutes ago) and read 2931 times:

Elon's Twitter:

"Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival."

Ah well, darn. Next time then! (It's not my money so it's OK!   )

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5212 posts, RR: 3
Reply 145, posted (2 weeks 6 days 4 hours 20 minutes ago) and read 2891 times:

Quoting Tugger (Reply 144):
Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival."

Ah well, darn. Next time then! (It's not my money so it's OK! )

Have to see more of the feed, but from the initial snapshot, they were in much better position this time

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (2 weeks 5 days 19 hours 11 minutes ago) and read 2683 times:

https://vine.co/v/euEpIVegiIx

Video of the landing here, they were much much closer to success this time, perhaps without such massive last moment corrections becoming necessary it would have worked out perfectly.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 4012 posts, RR: 11
Reply 147, posted (2 weeks 5 days 15 hours 58 minutes ago) and read 2634 times:

I wonder if there is any damage to the barge - sorry - 'droneship'. It looks quite fiery towards the end.


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1411 posts, RR: 52
Reply 148, posted (2 weeks 5 days 12 hours 34 minutes ago) and read 2564 times:
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Quoting GST (Reply 146):
perhaps without such massive last

I would not call that a stabilized approach! Pretty massive excursions.
But - it is neat how you can see the plume being directed.



rcair1
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 149, posted (2 weeks 5 days 10 hours 6 minutes ago) and read 2500 times:

Same link GST posted above just clickable on A.net:

http://vine.co/v/euEpIVegiIx

Quoting GST (Reply 146):
Video of the landing here, they were much much closer to success this time, perhaps without such massive last moment corrections becoming necessary it would have worked out perfectly.

Not only the lateral corrections but it really looks like its coming in too fast, needs to slow the descent rate down a lot.

But hey, they hit a relatively tiny target in the middle of the ocean! Kudos to them for doing it consistently, this has never been done before. As Elon said they have more to do but they are making good progress.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (2 weeks 5 days 9 hours 18 minutes ago) and read 2475 times:
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I thought the booster landings would be more like Grasshopper... Get to about 800 ft or so, get stabilized, then start down in a controlled manner. Are they trying to save on fuel margin by stabilizing just prior to landing?


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User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 151, posted (2 weeks 5 days 8 hours 57 minutes ago) and read 2464 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 150):
I thought the booster landings would be more like Grasshopper... Get to about 800 ft or so, get stabilized, then start down in a controlled manner. Are they trying to save on fuel margin by stabilizing just prior to landing?

Watching the video (over and over and over and...) it appears they start the refiring for slowing too late. You can see it is a "small flame" at first and then really starts firing just before touchdown (or impact in this case). I am thinking they could probably be safe to do what you mention at half the height, 400 feet, then descend.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offline2T2X1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2015, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (2 weeks 5 days 8 hours 40 minutes ago) and read 2511 times:

I wonder if the available fuel would allow for a Grasshopper-type stepped approach. Or maybe this was a test of a more economical (albeit high-speed) approach profile. Either way, I'd bet they nail the landing in the next 2-3 tries.

User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (2 weeks 5 days 6 hours 29 minutes ago) and read 2474 times:

Quoting 2T2X1 (Reply 152):
I wonder if the available fuel would allow for a Grasshopper-type stepped approach. Or maybe this was a test of a more economical (albeit high-speed) approach profile.

It looks like an attempt at a "suicide burn" profile, very efficient but also very risky if you start decelerating too late, or start too early but with marginal fuel. Actually I think the deceleration looked pretty good, the deceleration in the last couple of hundred feet had it pretty near entirely arresting the descent rate, I wonder if without the need for massive glidepath corrections the engines thrusting entirely retrograde would have pulled it off perfectly. Does anyone know how fast a Merlin engine is to throttle? I guess pretty bloody fast but at that descent rate you must go a relatively long way between the control system commanding additional thrust and receiving it.


User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 154, posted (2 weeks 5 days 2 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 2378 times:
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Enhanced, color corrected video.

http://youtu.be/BhMSzC1crr0

Just Read The Instructions is going to need another paint job...

[Edited 2015-04-15 15:45:17]


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User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1411 posts, RR: 52
Reply 155, posted (2 weeks 5 days 2 hours 24 minutes ago) and read 2364 times:
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Quoting GST (Reply 153):
Actually I think the deceleration looked pretty good, the deceleration in the last couple of hundred feet had it pretty near entirely arresting the descent rate

Deceleration should be very deterministic. Gravity does not vary much at those altitudes. It may look scary but they should be able to pretty precisely calculate the deceleration curve. I think it looks pretty good (looking at the video in 154.

Quoting GST (Reply 153):
I wonder if without the need for massive glidepath corrections the engines thrusting entirely retrograde would have pulled it off perfectly

I think that is the issues - and it looked like some PIO going on - or at least not damping.

What I found really interesting was the lateral thrust-er at the top of the ship firing furiously to keep it standing up. It looks like it allllmoooosttt held it....



rcair1
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 156, posted (2 weeks 5 days 1 hour 56 minutes ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 154):
Just Read The Instructions is going to need another paint job...

If the ship could talk (or think like it does it in the book series...   )

And sorry that it wasn't a success but that was a really good, spectacular even, failure! So close.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 155):
What I found really interesting was the lateral thrust-er at the top of the ship firing furiously to keep it standing up. It looks like it allllmoooosttt held it....

REAL close, almost. But then...

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 157, posted (2 weeks 5 days 28 minutes ago) and read 2313 times:
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Quoting Tugger (Reply 151):
Watching the video (over and over and over and...) it appears they start the refiring for slowing too late. You can see it is a "small flame" at first and then really starts firing just before touchdown (or impact in this case). I am thinking they could probably be safe to do what you mention at half the height, 400 feet, then descend.

No, I don't think so. The vertical velocity is pretty low at the point of contact. Where it looks like they went wrong is that the bottom of the vehicle had a nasty residual sideways motion at the point of contact. Note that top of the vehicle was pretty much stationary, and things were quite vertical, at or near the point of contact, and the bottom slid out from under it. You can even see the attitude thrusters trying to shove the top to the right during the slide. They may have not compensated enough for the rotation induced by the attitude thrusters at the top, or perhaps that compensation was messed up by the proximity to the deck. The gas flows near landing are going to be immensely complicated - much worse than at launch.

[Edited 2015-04-15 17:51:17]

User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 158, posted (2 weeks 4 days 4 hours 52 minutes ago) and read 2096 times:
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Landing video from the ASDS:

http://youtu.be/vmJK_v5wRZw



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User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 159, posted (2 weeks 4 days 4 hours 4 minutes ago) and read 2072 times:

This isn't Grasshopper. F9 first stages have a thrust to weight ratio much higher than 1, even at minimum throttle, so it has to fire a burst right before landing since it can't hover. Grasshopper was ballasted and could hover, so it was a lot easier to bring down.
Coming in hot is the only choice here. And, landing on a moving target doesn't make it aNY easier.



Anon
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6031 posts, RR: 10
Reply 160, posted (2 weeks 3 days 5 hours 52 minutes ago) and read 1844 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 157):
No, I don't think so. The vertical velocity is pretty low at the point of contact. Where it looks like they went wrong is that the bottom of the vehicle had a nasty residual sideways motion at the point of contact. Note that top of the vehicle was pretty much stationary, and things were quite vertical, at or near the point of contact, and the bottom slid out from under it. You can even see the attitude thrusters trying to shove the top to the right during the slide. They may have not compensated enough for the rotation induced by the attitude thrusters at the top, or perhaps that compensation was messed up by the proximity to the deck. The gas flows near landing are going to be immensely complicated - much worse than at launch.

Yes, I agree, and I have to laugh and the audacity of my comments simply because here I am making "statements" that of course have none of the multiple hours of effort and information in them the SpaceX team put into their attempts!
I'm a funny guy.   But still it's fun to sit here and pontificate.   

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 159):
This isn't Grasshopper. F9 first stages have a thrust to weight ratio much higher than 1, even at minimum throttle, so it has to fire a burst right before landing since it can't hover. Grasshopper was ballasted and could hover, so it was a lot easier to bring down.
Coming in hot is the only choice here. And, landing on a moving target doesn't make it aNY easier.


  
Actually this does deserve a new thread/thread title, but we few that seem to love this stuff apparently like going to one place for this.  

And regarding what you are saying, here is a relatively accurate inaccurate article from Fox news on "why they land on a barge".... they get the point at the end sort of but it just seems as bad as some of my relatively uninformed comments and these are supposedly informed and intelligent subject "experts". I suspect somethings are lost in translation. Gotta love the media.

Quote:
According to American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Aerospace Engineer Paul Huter, it’s simply a matter of convenience. “The rocket is launching out over the Atlantic ocean, so the easiest place to land it would be straight out into the ocean. Now, obviously, this presents challenges when compared to landing [a rocket] on solid ground as something at sea is constantly moving around. But in terms of energy required (most of which has already been used during the launch), it is more efficient to try and land on something in the ocean.”

As for whether or not the deep-pocketed space organization can successfully land the rocket, some experts are dubious. Even before the latest landing attempt, Musk himself was giving it a 50/50 chance to succeed. Huter believes SpaceX can pull it off, but it won’t be anytime in the near future. “I think SpaceX has the capability and the know-how to land on the floating barge, but there are a lot of variables that need to be taken into consideration, which make it a difficult task,” he told FoxNews.com. “With unlimited time and money, they could pull it off and revolutionize space launch technology. But they only have so many launches, and each failure costs them money.”
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/...to-land-rockets-on-floating-barge/



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinesharles From Latvia, joined Aug 2012, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 161, posted (2 weeks 1 day 7 hours 39 minutes ago) and read 1482 times:
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"Cause of hard rocket landing confirmed as due to slower than expected throttle valve response. Next attempt in 2 months."

http://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comme...ocket_landing_confirmed_as_due_to/


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