Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
A400M French AF  
User currently offlinebreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

The first A400M to be delivered to the French AF (MSN 007 F-RBAA) was rolled-out at Sevilla in standard grey cs with small French flag on the fin and small "Armee de l'Air" on forward fuselage.
Ii is planned to be formally delivered in May 2013 at the Orleans-Bricy AB.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.as...a0db49-ffae-49e9-9011-b06c9c93e2ca

278 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2914 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Armee de l'Air could have really used a dozen or so in service by now. Operation Serval will really hit the Transall fleets of France and Germany hard.


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlinebreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 1):
Armee de l'Air could have really used a dozen or so in service by now. Operation Serval will really hit the Transall fleets of France and Germany hard.


So true.
The French AF chartered the Antonov 124 from Volga-Dnepr and the RAF contributed with two Boeing C-17.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

To be honest, even with the A400, they would have still chartered the Antonovs. They're regulars at on the world's battlefields now...

Is that the final livery? It's exactly like the protos. I would have liked a Eurogreen camo scheme.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12412 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 3):
I would have liked a Eurogreen camo scheme.

The real question is are you willing to pay for it?

If it isn't in the contract, I doubt Airbus will.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

In addition to 2 RAF C-17s flying for the French, at least one RCAF C-17, and a Danish C-130J are helping out. How long before the SAC C-17s are asked to help, too?

User currently offlineiakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 32759 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
In addition to 2 RAF C-17s flying for the French, at least one RCAF C-17, and a Danish C-130J are helping out.

...plus two C-130H from BAF and expect some C-27J and/or C-130J from Italy tomorrow


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2914 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 32684 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
How long before the SAC C-17s are asked to help, too?

USAF has come to an agreement to provide C-17 and possibly C-5s. French gov't is picking up the tab.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 32434 times:

France needs the C17, only nationalistic pride gets in the way. There will be no more AN124 made and they will get worn down with time, the A400 is not the answer to every problem.

Even my little defence hating nation has a part of a C17, clearly it is a very good asset to have despite being from outside of France.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 32403 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 8):
only nationalistic pride gets in the way.

What gets in the way is the fact that there is NO money of any kind in the government budget to acquire any.

We also need new tankers, more fighters, new drones, etc.
The government is out to save over 30bn € in just a few years, and it's belt tightening time everywhere, especially the military...

What we really need is a real European military force which can effectively pool its resources together.
But then we can't even get our foreign ministers to agree on anything...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinefridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 32390 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It sounds (to me) like the French went into this without sufficient air lift in place.

Is this true?

Thanks,

F



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 32374 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 9):

So why did FR vote against pooling the C17 for EU nations? GER and FR were hostile towards pooling C17 in EU. Now wiser with time, maybe that was very stupid?! It is soon too late to order more. And the last ones off the line in California will be very good and cheap frames. To start a C17 program in EU would cost a lot more than ordering a few before EOL.

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

EU could really use some of that ECB printing for anyting else than helping french and german banks. The rest of us in EU are really starting to hate FR and GER.


User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 32333 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 11):
So why did FR vote against pooling the C17 for EU nations?

Several reasons. Much like the (in)famous franco-german regiment, nobody can ever agree on when to deploy these assets, and under what rules of engagement.

Then, splitting the transport fleet and recognising that a dedicated strategic airlifter is required dilutes the A400M business case. (The C17 has some tactical capability, but the A400M is supposed to be able to fulfill both the C130 and C17 roles).

Therefore, in theory a bigger fleet of A400M aircraft provides greater flexibility with the reduced costs of a single fleet, even if it is smaller than a C17 (but not that much smaller!). As a turboprop, the fuel burn is supposed to be much more favorable than a jet, and the cruise speed is higher than a C130.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 10):
It sounds (to me) like the French went into this without sufficient air lift in place.

Yes. And France went into Harmattan/Libya without sufficient air to air refuelling capability also, and the US Navy greyhounds helped the French Navy by providing logistical support for the Charles de Gaulle because France has never purchased an equivalent aircraft that can transport people and equipement and trap on a carrier.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 32312 times:

Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 12):
Therefore, in theory a bigger fleet of A400M aircraft provides greater flexibility with the reduced costs of a single fleet, even if it is smaller than a C17 (but not that much smaller!).

At MTOW, it carries half the payload of one C-17 at MTOW, so you need two to do the job of one. That is not a reduction in costs.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6582 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 32298 times:

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 10):
It sounds (to me) like the French went into this without sufficient air lift in place.

Is this true?

Thanks,

F

Well, it wasn't an operation planned months in advance that could be launched at any time like Iraqi freedom, it was a "rescue" mission to stop a government from being overthrown. A government that the US doesn't support and thus can't help, by the way.

For the operation that was planned, it was supposed to happen in September so there was plenty of time, and it was mainly about formation and support, not boots and vehicles on the ground.

Quoting sweair (Reply 11):
EU could really use some of that ECB printing for anyting else than helping french and german banks. The rest of us in EU are really starting to hate FR and GER.

Well I don't see what Sweden has to do with the ECB, if you want to print money you can. If the ECB didn't do what was necessary for a long time it's precisely because Germany and France have very different views on the matter, France willing to print endlessly US style, while Germany thinks doing so would bring about the third world war.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 13):
At MTOW, it carries half the payload of one C-17 at MTOW, so you need two to do the job of one. That is not a reduction in costs.

It depends of the cost/price of each (including the fact that one is providing jobs in european countries) really, and instead of using two you can also do two trips. I don't know if the French military could use a fleet of C-17 year round effectively.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3470 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 32277 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
I don't know if the French military could use a fleet of C-17 year round effectively.

Fleet effectiveness and military are a contradiction anyway


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 32148 times:

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 10):
It sounds (to me) like the French went into this without sufficient air lift in place.

France does not, and never has had enough sufficient airlift capability for distant deployments. Few countries have. The political nature of this operation meant that France is acting alone, so far, which does not mean that allied nations can't be helping out, and they are.

The troop and equipment seem to be getting there one way or another, so I'd say the main issue in this conflict is not airlift capability.

Quoting sweair (Reply 11):
Stupid, stupid, stupid!

I fail to identify your post as anything other that blind fanboyism, but you have to understand that those are political decisions taken decades ago in a difficult and evolving European context. The A400M, for all its issues, provides jobs in many European nations and is designed to be an efficient aircraft for the job required. Euro air forces, for the most part, can't afford to have several subfleets of transport aircrafts.

And to be honest, if France was to buy a large strategic airlifter, I'd prefer my taxpayer money to buy part of an An-124, or even some used 747F. Much cheaper to buy and operate than a C-17!

The A400 can do the unprepared airfield bit. What always seem to lack in these distant conflicts is the capability to carry lots of heavy equipment to the main, paved, airfields of the affected country.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 32128 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 16):

Can you be a fanboy when it comes to strategic capability of a continent? If FR and GER had not blocked the C17 purchase EU as a whole would have a whole different capability on its own right now. Why depend on Ukrainian An124s? What is to say that these old birds will fly in 15 years?

Sweden went ahead and joined the SAC in Hungary, they learned the hard way in 2004 that heavy airlift can and do get short when things happen.

The only way FR would accept the C17 would be in kits assembled in Toulouse.. Put some GTF engines on it in the future, a very decent military and civilian freighter, not needing the infrastructure a 747 needs.

EU will stand on its own in the future US is aiming towards SE Asia, getting used to others having your back is dangerous. I don´t think the US taxpayer is willing to foot the defence bill for EU anymore.


User currently onlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3920 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 32103 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 17):

France does operate US aircraft.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Antonio Carrasquilla - Aerospray
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong

Quoting sweair (Reply 17):

EU will stand on its own in the future US is aiming towards SE Asia, getting used to others having your back is dangerous. I don´t think the US taxpayer is willing to foot the defence bill for EU anymore.

And that's exactly why we need to preserve and support our own aircrat industry.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12412 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 32065 times:

I'm not sure why no one is pointing out that if the A400M had come anywhere near its original schedule and budget, France would already have all the airlift it needs for this operation.

Quote:

The partner nations – France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom, Turkey, Belgium, and Luxembourg – signed an agreement in May 2003 to buy 212 aircraft.[citation needed] These nations decided to charge the Organisation for Joint Armament Cooperation (OCCAR) with the management of the acquisition of the A400M.

Following the withdrawal of Italy and revision of procurement totals the revised requirement was for 180 aircraft, with first flight in 2008 and first delivery in 2009.

It seems France could really use some of those 50 frames that the put deposits down in 2003 and expected to have starting in 2009.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 16):
France does not, and never has had enough sufficient airlift capability for distant deployments.

If you go by the old rule of thumb that two A400Ms equal one C-17, it seems France surely would be OK for this operation.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 16):
And to be honest, if France was to buy a large strategic airlifter, I'd prefer my taxpayer money to buy part of an An-124, or even some used 747F. Much cheaper to buy and operate than a C-17!

Fair enough.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 16):
The A400 can do the unprepared airfield bit. What always seem to lack in these distant conflicts is the capability to carry lots of heavy equipment to the main, paved, airfields of the affected country.

I still wonder what commander is going to order these extremely expensive aircraft to land on some unprepared airfield.

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 18):
And that's exactly why we need to preserve and support our own aircrat industry.

It's funny that you use the word "our", because it seems Frau Merkel shot down the EADS-BAe deal mostly because she thought that DE needed its own defense industry, or at least very tight control of the EADS segments in DE.

It also should be pretty obvious that for what the A400M ends up costing, you could have stocked a life time's worth of spare parts for whatever non-EU aircraft that was purchased.

As for the future, I personally have a hard time seeing the EU governments agreeing to another pan-EU program like A400M for quite a while, given both the way the A400M project went and given the fiscal climate.

I think all the worlds aerospace contractors really need to be concerned about the cost of their products and the willingness of governments to keep funding them.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3920 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 32020 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
I'm not sure why no one is pointing out that if the A400M had come anywhere near its original schedule and budget, France would already have all the airlift it needs for this operation.

Good point.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
It also should be pretty obvious that for what the A400M ends up costing, you could have stocked a life time's worth of spare parts for whatever non-EU aircraft that was purchased.

Of course, but that non-EU aircraft would erode Europe's capability to build aircraft. I'm not saying that buying foreign is always wrong, olf course.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):

I think all the worlds aerospace contractors really need to be concerned about the cost of their products and the willingness of governments to keep funding them.

True to that.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 32012 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
it seems France surely would be OK for this operation.

When the Armée de L'Air finally gets its A400s, then yes.

Quoting sweair (Reply 17):
Can you be a fanboy when it comes to strategic capability of a continent?

Enough with the drama...
EU as a whole has no enemy that would warrant such an airlift capacity. The last few wars it's engaged in were linked with localized ethnic wars, terrorism and jihadism guerillas, ousting dictators and the like.

And if such a threat ever arises, there is no doubt that EU as a whole would react as one and every country would provide its military capacity. Which by then would be around 150 A400s.

The SAC NATO arrangement is to pool 3 C-17s between over 10 nations. Hardly the same scope.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
As for the future, I personally have a hard time seeing the EU governments agreeing to another pan-EU program like A400M for quite a while, given both the way the A400M project went and given the fiscal climate.

They might not have a choice. France opted out of the Eurofighter program and went alone. Both products ended up being fine and adapted aircrafts, but basically, twice the money was spent for 2 similar products,and half of that bore by one country alone. Both programs ended up overbudget and late.
As you say, money becoming tight these days, I doubt there will be a choice but to pool resources in the future if they want a competitive product. However, one light hope that the arrangements of such programs would involve politicians a lot less and let private defense companies group themselves and share the development work according to financial arrangements.

It's hard to get political bickering out of the loop completely, unfortunately, but programs like the nEUROn seem a step in the right direction in terms of European cooperation.

Ideally, European countries would agree on a set of specifications and numbers required and launch an RFP and let EADS and other European consortiums battle it out. One can dream.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12412 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 31971 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
They might not have a choice. France opted out of the Eurofighter program and went alone. Both products ended up being fine and adapted aircrafts, but basically, twice the money was spent for 2 similar products,and half of that bore by one country alone. Both programs ended up overbudget and late.
As you say, money becoming tight these days, I doubt there will be a choice but to pool resources in the future if they want a competitive product. However, one light hope that the arrangements of such programs would involve politicians a lot less and let private defense companies group themselves and share the development work according to financial arrangements.

I think F35 shows the more you pool together, the more the tendency is to make sure everyone gets their pet feature/project included in the product, the more difficult is is to cut things because of the political tension, and the more the budget and schedule explodes.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
Ideally, European countries would agree on a set of specifications and numbers required and launch an RFP and let EADS and other European consortiums battle it out.

A400M did have budgetary controls in the contract. Unfortunately the remedies were too heavy-handed: if the remedies were applied, the whole project would collapse. Hopefully the public sector has learned from this, but the cynic in me doubts it.

Part of the problem is when you fund projects just to keep a capability alive, the people involved know this and know you can't/won't walk away from the project when things get out of hand.

In some ways you are better off having a foreign entity develop the hardware. Australia got a better deal out of Boeing for Wedgetail than Boeing would have offered the US for the same capability, and Boeing paid the compensation when it was late.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 31966 times:

The end of production is very soon, we should on this continent really sit down and think about this, last chance..

User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7237 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 31936 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
I still wonder what commander is going to order these extremely expensive aircraft to land on some unprepared airfield.

The one who requires his men and supplies on the ground ASAP.


25 francoflier : I agree. But then we're back to the same point. If you need several nations to fund a project like this, you'll never get anyone of them to just pour
26 Post contains links Revelation : Or when you make it look like the project is too far ahead to just cancel it, and the government didn't/can't/won't audit the program well enough to
27 Post contains links Revelation : From the thread in non-av: Ref: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/01/mali-heavy-firepower/ Some relevant specs: Seems the Leclerc is going by sea,
28 Aesma : The US wanted us to pay for the C-17 flights (a hefty sum) so apparently we declined and took the free options (from Canada, UK and others) while sugg
29 ptrjong : No need for dimensions. At over 50 tonnes It's too heavy for the A400M.
30 Revelation : Seems then that the A400M is sufficient for skirmishes but not for all-out war.
31 KiwiRob : Like the c-130 or is that good enough for war?
32 Spacepope : It is when you have larger aircraft to carry the bigger items that may be needed. C-130 + A400M= MBTs stay home. C-130 + C-17/C-5 = MBTs can be airli
33 Post contains links Revelation : The question answers itself, doesn't it? The French could have worked with the USAF to secure C-130 services but they didn't, they have secured C-17
34 chuchoteur : Looking at the UK who have C130 & C17, realistically with the small number of C17 in the fleet they are not in a position to deploy MBTs in any s
35 Aesma : Frankly I have no idea why we would be sending MBT at all in Mali, the enemy has pick-ups. If it's true they have anti-tank weapons then we are sendin
36 ptrjong : I think that's wrong. Some aircraft can airlift a few tanks for skirmishes, but no country seems to be able to airlift armoured divisions- US armour
37 Revelation : My understanding is they have pretty much anything that Qadaffi's armories had before they were looted. Why have MBTs are all then? I guess the soldi
38 Post contains links SeJoWa : C-17 Globemaster III transport jets, operating under the control of U.S. Africa Command, are moving a French mechanized infantry battalion. The ongoi
39 GDB : In all of the rightful lauding of the C-17 and the capabilities it gives to the nations that operate it, while bashing the A400M for it's delays, it's
40 sweair : They chose to veto the C17, that is what bothers me, they tried to force others in EU to go for the A400. Now I think some regret being such typical
41 Aesma : Well Sweden makes the Gripen and is selling it internationally so you should understand the need for some nations to keep certain industries alive, wh
42 Revelation : Indeed, and the project continued because there really was no alternative: the C5s aren't as numerous and aren't reliable and modern enough, the C-14
43 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : Let's not turn this into yet another C-17 vs. A-400 thread. Yes, but only a handful. No, they won't. They will be retiring more C-160s and C-130s. Fr
44 Post contains images francoflier : No. Ethnic war. Also, I don't understand why Kosovo would change anything in France or Europe's need for strategic transport. I don't understand your
45 cargotanker : While MBTs are usually moved by sea, when sudden crises arise, the ability to airlift MBTs can be very useful. This ability has been an important and
46 GDB : The real reason that the A400M gets a bashing here is of course, it's taken, already, some potential customers for the C-130J, not the C-17. Worth men
47 KC135TopBoom : Who is doing that? France finds itself envolved in a conflict they are not equipped to fully support using there own assets. Now France is requesting
48 chuchoteur : Actually, the latest standard of engines has now been installed on the test aircraft, performed all of the function & reliability campaign with n
49 Revelation : As an engineer I'm keenly interested in the development process/history and find the comparisons to other successful as well as less than successful
50 GDB : Well, France and Germany had their large Transall fleets to replace, in an A400M free world the only realistic replacement would have been C-130J. RA
51 sweair : Whatever is most sane to me as a taxpayer gets my vote, no use in inventing the wheel all over if a wheel is on the market and paid for. There will b
52 Revelation : And the warfighter too, IMHO.
53 KC135TopBoom : I won't rule out future orders for the A-400M, but the fact that attached to every new airplane ordered by someone other than the current customers i
54 sweair : My concern is that about 10 years after the EOL of the C17 production some knuckle head in EU thinks it would be great to have heavy airlift...reinve
55 GDB : You really think the A400M had a chance there? What would be the USAF's need for it? Loads of Herks and over 200 C-17's. I don't see either how the h
56 Aesma : Is there really any chance of the C-17 not being available 10 years from now ? Unlike commercial programs there is no reason to scrap the tooling, I w
57 gigneil : I don't understand a whole thread of people comparing a C-130 sized plane to the C-17.... The A400M is less than half the weight of a C-17 and carries
58 Post contains images Revelation : Actually it's a thread about the rollout of the 1st A400M to be delivered to France. Then France was asked to send troops to Mali, and so the thread
59 kanban : Tooling for spares prone parts will be retained, tooling related to parts not spares prone may be mothballed but probably not. major assembly tooling
60 Post contains images francoflier : So much anger. Reassuring at least to know that your problem lies with the French and not the A400 itself. Sorry for bleeding Sweden dry, by the way.
61 GDB : Quite. You really cannot compare this to a UN style peacekeeping operation, in this clip there are troops deployed to secure an airfield but also an
62 Revelation : Indeed, although it wasn't around this time when it was needed, there seems no doubt it'll be needed again.
63 cargotanker : You seem to value jobs and government support of industry much more than you value quality, defense capability, and money spent efficiently. Based on
64 GDB : But that's hardly unique to either France or Germany, is it? France is not shy of importing US hardware when needed, E-3 and E-2 AWACS - big ticket a
65 Acheron : Sounds like the F-35.
66 Revelation : Yep, LM, NG, BAe and other subs are taking a whole swath of the world's taxpayers to the cleaners:
67 Post contains images francoflier : I do! Isn't the point of a country/government trying to make sure that its citizens live as well as possible? You seem to live in a world in which wa
68 Pihero : Chad is acting on its own. It is not part of the African troops involved - or soon to be involved - in the ground OPS.Your comment is irrelevant. Fra
69 kanban : maybe not as a military force, but as a political statement they are needed. din't the plane fail to pass the unimproved runway because it was too un
70 Pihero : Good remark. Maybe people will understand more what Airbus is also about and what being part of the EU means. When will people understand that the ai
71 kanban : I was poking fun.. like Grizzly better than Atlas.. Agree with your points.. and we'll have C-17's when you need them.. It's good to see this plane r
72 Post contains images chuchoteur : Yup... On the plus side, it does make my Grizzly patch worth a lot more... Target is 4 to the french air force.
73 GDB : Perhaps because CASA, now EADS Spain, had experience starting with the C-212, then a line of development to the CN-235?
74 Post contains images Pihero : ditto, but perhaps it is too american ?
75 Post contains images chuchoteur : I believe it was a bit of a political mix-up. Airbus Military came up with the "Grizzly" name, and there were some objections from the partner nation
76 Post contains links and images ptrjong : Atlas is among other things a reference to the Noratlas I think, which was almost Franco-German, too. View Large View MediumPhoto © Andy Martin - Ai
77 Revelation : Personally I think the correct interpretation is that Ms Merkel torpedoed EADS-BAe because she feared it would have diluted Germany's role in EADS to
78 GDB : Talking about deploying Main Battle Tanks to places like Afghanistan, Mali, they seem to be used, in very small numbers, as a sort of mobile, hardened
79 Post contains images bikerthai : Not popular . . . maybe, but they were effective in blasting holes in jungle foliage and earthen bunkers in Vietnam The US does have an advantage of
80 Post contains links chuchoteur : ERC-90 Sagaie. Has a 90mm gun, and is amphibious. Wikipedia is not up to date, the french ones were upgraded in 2009 with a new Mercedez-derived dies
81 Revelation : Right, that's why I said earlier: and something being addressed via your comments as well as: I recall seeing a story where it was said that composit
82 chuchoteur : ...an interesting question... clearly, MBTs have shown their limits in urban or confined areas (the french deployment of Leclerc MBTs to southern lib
83 sweair : There will always be need of heavy airlift, I guess the An124s will get more wear with time. The C5s are heading for the scrap heap. Luckily for Franc
84 Post contains images chuchoteur : During the evacuation of Libya, France evacuated EU nationals, and then evacuated egyptian nationals back home when Egypt lacked air transport to do
85 Pihero : Think of Iraq.... Afghanistan... Kosovo...Gabon...Zaïre...Mauritania...Zaïre again (Kolwezi)...Chad...Centrafrica...Lybia...Togo... Rwanda...Camero
86 Revelation : I just saw a documentary on the An124. The existing frames have had a 'service life extension' and the engines are getting upgraded over time. It see
87 Post contains images chuchoteur : To be fair, France for historical reasons has much stronger links to africa (hence a lot of operations on your list), whereas Sweden is somewhat more
88 Pihero : I'm all for a good discussion between civilized people and I certainly have no agenda. Trying to hide something behind a slogan is not really my idea
89 chuchoteur : First A400M in Orleans end of May/start of June. Bearing in mind it is being delivered to the "equipes de marque" who will then need to get acquainte
90 Revelation : Thanks for your earlier statement and especially this one. Should be very good to see Atlas move out of the factory and into the field. Indeed it wil
91 Aesma : Well some would argue that when France built nuclear reactors all over the place it did exactly that. Should I mention Concorde ? Actually since the
92 Post contains images sweair : Would FR accept the C17 if it came in kits that got assembled in Toulouse? With all the posturing from EU of a greater strategic role, we lack some re
93 Post contains links GDB : I saw them on some news footage from Mali. Though I was referring to this beast; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX_10_RC
94 Pihero : Hey ! There arte some very small physical / logistical considerations to make : A Leclerc regiment is made of 54 MBTs, 86 armored vehicles (troop car
95 Revelation : I'd argue with the amount of investment in the A400Ms that France is making, and the quantity they are purchasing, the imperative is to design the IF
96 sweair : I did not only think about FR(France) needs of IFVs, if they want to sell it to others it will have to carry a lot more. It can carry the Swedish IFV
97 Post contains images Pihero : It just carries twice as much load twice the distance as your - getting old - Herks... and a lot more airlift than the 550hr/year = 1 hr 40min /day y
98 Post contains links Revelation : Some interesting points around the US GCV effort: So the planned Stryker replacement will not be in the same weight class at all. In fact: So it seem
99 Aesma : There is no EU on defense and if that conflict has shown anything is that it's very far from existing. With no attitude at all. Ever heard of Catheri
100 Spacepope : Just out of curiosity, what is the planned yearly utilization rate for the C-160 fleet?
101 Revelation : Right - as above it's clear the Herks are losing the IFV mission and it's not at all clear to me if the A400M will be adequate for different military
102 Pihero : We rae arguing in circles, here. Do you think that the dep^loyment I showed above will be mluch faster by air ? Probably, but not by much. The deploy
103 Post contains images sweair : Well Sweden voted for the C17 I hear no swedes whine about not getting the A400, swedes mostly hate everything American and love everything European.
104 GDB : I saw footage of some being driven off the Mistral class ship (another excellent French military product IMHO), for deployment to Mali.
105 Aesma : Is the military a subject Swedes care about when voting ? I mean even in France with a budget you can't even compare, it isn't mentioned at all durin
106 Pihero : ... and whgy do you think wed ever counted on Sweden to buy it ? Looking at just the Air force, you seem to depend a lot on american hardware ( and t
107 Post contains images sweair : I meant that we future thinking swedes voted for the C17 over the A400M No matter how much France and Germany tried to sway this decision. I think ma
108 Revelation : Thanks for the summary. Right, and that works OK for France with its interests close enough for a sea deployment in a few days, but it's not clear tha
109 francoflier : I'm not sure that buying one 11th of 2 C-17s qualifies Sweden as a 'good customer'. The heat is never on. It's Sweden.
110 Pihero : Don't forget "punchy" : the AMX- 10 has a 105mm cannon (at 15 T weight), the Sagaie a 90mm cannon (at 7.5) tons. We have an idea of the materiel that
111 sweair : The question is, will EADS be able to make all potential customers build lighter and less safe IFVs to sell them the A400M? Why did they not go for 40
112 chuchoteur : The new army combat vehicle will not be less safe. It will capitalise on the latest technologies and if anything be more versatile, as listed in the
113 sweair : I was thinking economics and future proofing. Those 757 engines are old.. The C17 can carry a Leopard 2 tank..I dont think it needs to carry more tha
114 chuchoteur : Using a GTF, you would increase the fan diameter. Which would reduce ground clearance, thus possibly taking the C17 out of the tactical airlifter rol
115 Revelation : As it should be. The vehicles can't just keep getting heavier ad infinitum. You can still find 707 engines on: B-52 Stratofortress E-3 Sentry E-8 Joi
116 KiwiRob : But the future thinking Swedes only bought a time share they didn't buy a complete plane, which isn't really future thinking is it? Which is a capabi
117 sweair : Its three aircraft and 550 hours of flight time, one frame is US owned. Finland has only 100 hours. I think the tsunami in 2004 woke some people, heav
118 KiwiRob : Woop woop, I have a friend that owns a part share in a Ferrari, he gets to use it 10% of the year, but he has to book it 2 weeks in advance, he can't
119 Spacepope : For that cost you could own 2 C-17s outright.
120 sweair : This thread was about the french A400M, I hope I wasn´t the sole reason for it to depart from the subject. The A400M is a great plane, it will make F
121 flyingturtle : Yes, with 58-abreast seating it will be the favorite airplane of FR. David
122 KC135TopBoom : It provides more airlift capability than any A-400M time share program could. Sweden is one of 12 countries in the SAC Program, and one of two PfP me
123 francoflier : And if you can't own, then, just like your Ferrari-part-owner friend, you're better off just renting the capacity on an on-demand basis from other ai
124 Post contains images Pihero : Thanks for the info. I didn't know MoL was interested in them, but I would love to see one in FR colour scheme ! Fair enough. How many crews ? 10 ?..
125 Pihero : According to the official site of the Armée de l'Air, the A400M training centre has been built, the maintenance centre is about ready with equipment
126 XT6Wagon : Evidence? Not only is the C17 designed for tactical missions, but so far the USAF has declined to have a new version of the C-17 developed for more e
127 Pihero : The C17 strategic transport capability has never been in doubt in my mind and your argument is disingenuous. I don't really understand the "questiona
128 Post contains links Pihero : Just discovered on Youtube, an interesting vid on RAF test pilots (some of them part of the project ) flying the beast and a long sequence on their co
129 XT6Wagon : Pretty much yes. It can land on "soft" surfaces, just not really soft surfaces. It adds risk, and the USAF and others have all worked very hard to en
130 Pihero : Thank you for your post. Problem is, there are a few arguments that don't hold water : 1/- The very specification for the French Air Force is for a ta
131 MD11Engineer : Germany´s military is still equipped for a large part with weapons intended for a large scale conventional war of armoured divisions slugging it out
132 Pihero : I can't agree more with your post. All of it...
133 KC135TopBoom : I don't know how many crews are in SAC, nor do I know if the annual flying hour allotments is for total flying hours, including training, or is it ju
134 Post contains images gigneil : A little NS
135 Post contains links Pihero : Never quoted a price for either. Just pointed at the official price quoted by the Indian defence department as upo toà580 M$ for ten frames, five sp
136 KC135TopBoom : DIRCM (I believe) LAIRCM (installed)
137 Post contains links Pihero : FlightGlobal article reveals that MSN 7, the first Armée de l'Air plane will have its first flight first week in March. The dates are between the 2nd
138 Post contains images autothrust : Rubbish, you don't really have got a clue what the mission of the A400M is if you write such a thing. Nonsense. How many tax billions has spent the U
139 flagon : I worked on the A400M and must admit I am totally ignorant of how RCS has been taken into consideration into the design. The only low observable feat
140 Post contains links autothrust : Difficult there are barely sources, but the RCS of the A400 has yet to be figured out. I guest trials will start soon. Airbus itself pointed on some
141 cargotanker : I think your argument contradicts itself. Are you stating that the A400M is a military program that offers 'billions for nothing' but my statement is
142 Post contains links Revelation : Indeed, both are bad things. IMHO it's a bad idea to go with the "mommy, he's doing it too!" defense. BTW AvWeek has an article about France finally
143 autothrust : No i didn't state the A400M is a military program that offers 'billions for nothing. You are putting words in my mouth. I'm pointing out how many mil
144 Revelation : You could certainly make the argument that the US Army needed the recon asset in the time frame it was proposed, and could still use it. The main iss
145 autothrust : Commanche was only a example, (why a non stealth recon chopper wouldn't do the job is questionable), what about Project Pluto for what that was neede
146 Revelation : I'm still not getting where you are going with this. Yes, there are US programs that are wasteful. Yes, there are US programs that should never have b
147 autothrust : No need everything has been discussed already. Seems not, some people preferred to talk about what a bad move this was for Europe instead about the A
148 Revelation : Uhm, that is about the a400m ... ... and that is not about the a400m .... ... but I suppose at least one part of you knew that already ...
149 Pihero : The airframe is complete It can move cargo. By the year's end, the first SOC will see it with aerial delivery and protection. THen, at the end of nex
150 Revelation : Yet that is not its entire mission. Are you saying no additional hardware or software needs to be added to complete its mission? If so, you'd be wron
151 Pihero : As far as I know - which is not a lot - up to SOC 1.5, it's software changes / improvements... After that, I have no details. With all its failings, t
152 Revelation : From the AvWeek article in #142: So the plan is for late 2015 for SOC2 and no date is being given for SOC3. Keep tuned to see when they actually happ
153 jollo : Can someone summarize for me the planned next steps for the A400M program, please? The AVHerald article implies this timetable: * Initial deliveries (
154 Post contains links and images aviaponcho : I find this tiny little thread. For sure, A400M is smaller than C17 For sure, A400M is bigger than C130J30 It's not a replacement for both, but, at le
155 Post contains links aviaponcho : Looks like there's no more active noise cancellation system oups http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...rce=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
156 autothrust : Again, this was three years later accomplished then on the A400M.
157 jouy31 : Unless I am mistaken, the C-17 does not refuel other aircraft. The A400M can now be refuelled and will be able to refuel other aircraft starting with
158 Pihero : Just found on Defence Web : "The first three aircraft will be delivered in initial operating capability configuration, to be followed by SOC 1 (initi
159 jollo : Many thanks. It looks like that by year end 2015 the owners (France, Turkey, UK and Germany, by that date) will be able to put the A400M to the test
160 queb : EASA type certificate https://www.easa.europa.eu/certification/type-certificates/docs/aircraft/EASA-TCDS-A.169_Airbus_A400M-03-13032013.pdf Maximum Ta
161 francoflier : I think you got the MTW, MTOW and MZFW wrong. The type certificate says MTW: 137,900 kgs MTOW: 137,500 kgs MZFW: 109,600 kgs Unless it's a different
162 aviaponcho : Weird numbers isnt'it Queb ? Specially MZFW !
163 breiz : It is worth noting that the A400M is the first large military transport plane to get a civil certification from the outset. Similarly to airliners, r
164 Post contains links and images kanban : But as one keen-eyed correspondent has already pointed out to me, the EASA document says that the tactical airlifter's civil approval currently exclud
165 Post contains images breiz : ... and flying the journalist who reports what he has been told by a third party without really checking himself . The A400M is not yet qualified for
166 jollo : Not really: now you can file a regular civilian flight plan for your A400M, but you can haul only yourself and your co-pilot. No dust load, no passen
167 Post contains links queb : Indeed, especially when compared with the figures of the French Air Force : Empty weight: 79 000 kg MTOW: 141 000 kg in french: http://www.defense.go
168 queb : My numbers come from the EASA type certificate Page 11: https://www.easa.europa.eu/certification/type-certificates/docs/aircraft/EASA-TCDS-A.169_Airb
169 Pihero : What people do not realise is that the EASA certificate was required in order to have a common certification for the A400M Nations as they couldn't ag
170 KC135TopBoom : No, some EU countries wanted the EASA certification only because they do not have a military standard for a heavy airlifter. For France the heaviest
171 columba : Can sombody here please tell me when the first Luftwaffe A400M will be in production ?
172 francoflier : So did mine, but obviously it was a different one (earlier?), or a different WV. I forgot to keep the link and now I can't find it anymore. I'm guesi
173 Aviaponcho : No laughing at all, for sure Just questions And, possibly a typo for MZFW (I hope so) There should be other Iterations of the TCDS, specially to get
174 Post contains images bikerthai : O.K. Before we can crown this statement as accurate, we need to answer the following question . . . 1) Would you consider a 737 large? 2) Was the C-4
175 astuteman : But isn't that your favourite pasttime? Because it's a convenient way to throw mud This argument being presented only when it's convenient? Where hav
176 mjoelnir : Yes the unimproved runway they tested on was to soft and the A 400 got stuck. But the C-17 broke its landing gear, landing on a short but paved runwa
177 kanban : please note the failure was caused by a faulty maintenance action, not a design or manufacturing flaw.
178 mjoelnir : Do you have a confirmation somewhere about the maintenance fault? My information was that it was due to a design flaw. They made provisional repairs,
179 chuchoteur : It didn't really get stuck. It powered its way out and flew out. It did trash that grass runway though.
180 Post contains links kanban : per http://www.mcchordairmuseum.org/REV%...7%2096-0006%20SP%20OF%20BERLIN.htm Air Force accident investigation board later determined that the acciden
181 mjoelnir : Yes I have read that. I would call that anecdotal evidence. C-17 fans not believing anything bad about there plane. I was thinking about the accident
182 kanban : considering it's from the AF Museum at the plane's home base.. it's probably only anecdotal to a conspiracy theorist.
183 Post contains links ThePointblank : Small story from FlightGlobal when a A400M went up to Brize Norton for a small demo: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...up-close-with-a-grizzly-fi
184 mjoelnir : To start with it is missing most of the information needed. Maintenance issue, you said in your prior post "faulty". To be faulty it has to be unauth
185 kanban : It's your issue, go research it.. however it has nothing to do with the A400m
186 Post contains images mjoelnir : You made a statement I asked you to back it up. All the C-17 stuff has nothing to do with A400M. It is okay to bash the A400M, but not the glorious C
187 kanban : As far as I'm concerned, if Europe feels the need, designs and develops and sells the plane more power to them... What I find humorous with this plane
188 Post contains images airmagnac : "Grizzly" was an non-official name used by test crews. The only official designation given by the customer countries that I know of is "Atlas" Yeah, O
189 cargotanker : Actually, it was the very first response, noting that at about the same time of the rollout of the first A400M France was having to use USAF C-17s an
190 mjoelnir : I say the A400M is a Transall and old Hercules replacement, because that will be the planes that the A400M will actually replace. I was commenting on
191 cargotanker : I see the connection now, good point.
192 Pihero : Not so . Havent' we proved that the A400 M could carry - in fact it was tailored to carry - all the Army's required vehicles for a rapid intervention
193 KiwiRob : The RAF have 8 don't they?
194 sweair : I still think EU should set up something like the SAC, pool resources among many nations, combined a very powerful tool, it could be a mix of A400, C1
195 GDB : If the C-17 is so great at doing everything and the A400M such a load of Euro industrial subsidy rubbish, why are there so many threads where a certai
196 Pihero : Yes. My maths were : 8 total - (1 used + 1 AOG) = 6
197 Post contains links Revelation : Interesting how you criticize 'bashers' yet go on and say you wish you had access to more 'bashing', what's up with that? McDD screwed up so it's OK
198 GDB : Just pointing out an obvious double standard/wilful amnesia. And as I pointed out way up in this long thread, Airbus putting together a consortium of
199 kanban : Try to look at it with a little humor... the worst thing about the A400m is the public relations releases.. things like being delivered but unable to
200 Pihero : I managed to get an article on the M program, and here are the stages of Operational capabilities . SOC means Standard Operating Clearance ( and not *
201 GDB : I'm all for humour and I didn't have you in mind, with the over years confidently asserted views that 1) A400M will not get built. 2) It'll be cancel
202 Revelation : I just don't understand how the C-17's problems give the A400M license to have similar or worse problems. Thanks. It's been hard to find out more abo
203 GDB : It doesn't of course. It does though help to remind some that having a somewhat 'eventful' development, for whatever reasons, for a new military tran
204 Revelation : It's your right to have a bit of mockery and my right to call it out. I think the passions earlier on were flamed by a certain former member who coul
205 GDB : The UK, in the face of huge budget pressures, have dropped just 3 aircraft from their order. (And added 1 C-17). They were going to drop 6 A400M's bu
206 Post contains links Revelation : Wiki tells us: So to be clear, Germany is acting in a similar fashion to UK as opposed to France. We also read: Ref: http://www.upi.com/Business_News
207 GDB : Frankly I'm surprised it's as little as that. Germany spends much less relative to GDP on defence than either the UK or France, it has done a lot les
208 kanban : I love clearly stated opinions versus the normal commenters stating them as facts.. Thanks. One thing though I think we are all learning with the eco
209 Post contains links airmagnac : I admit I'm a lousy finance student, but I'm still struggling to figure this one out... As I see it, a simplified cost model would be something like
210 kanban : The first rule of military expenditures is confuse the auditors, gate keepers and general public trying to make sense of apple and oranges categories
211 Post contains images airmagnac : So are you saying any official numbers published before a military program is complete will always be unreliable garbage ? If so, then it makes thing
212 kanban : in the long run yes... even in "contracts" which callout dollars, there are side agreements that keep the numbers where the purchaser's purse and pub
213 Post contains images airmagnac : I totally agree ;I even tried to count the accumulated costs of the "side-contracts" in the case of the Qatari and Indian C17 programs...I gave up !
214 kanban : I appreciate your efforts in a very inexact field.. Both plane have a role, and proponents as well as detractors.. However if there is a need both wi
215 autothrust : Wrong, a C-17 can't refuel a chopper for example. Airbus aimed the costs to be that of the Herc. In terms of mainenance and fuel efficiency it might
216 XT6Wagon : Nor can the A400M for quite some time. And no one has ever asked a C-17 to since the C-130 does that for most customers. What many forget is that its
217 Pihero : Another disingenuous post : Air refuelling will be available on SOC 1.5 and fully noperational on SOC 2.5, so from June 2014 to end of 2017 (full tan
218 jollo : First of all, kudos for the proper use of the correct international metric system prefix for "million": I'm quite fed up by people using all kinds of
219 Pihero : AFAIK, the price quoted is in Euros, which makes the *increase* of the selling price quite a lot less than if you did it in US dollars. On the other h
220 jollo : I, for one, am very happy for every piece of successful European cooperation. And, although the A400M program could without doubt have been *more* su
221 Post contains links and images airmagnac : Careful, even if EADS did really officially say this, it's just marketing crap. So making any conclusions from it is risky. Marketing is the business
222 Pihero : It is just an opinion... and had you had any influence, we wouldn't be seeing Airbus, and before, Transall, AlphaJet, Nord2501 et al and we would sti
223 autothrust : Sure it was risk and a hard lesson for all, but now we have people with a knowhow in Turboprop technology which made a engine that has no direct comp
224 Post contains images jollo : It's only my opinion, supported by 20 years of international program management experience. Project risk management has a a lot more to it than just
225 Pihero : The point is that you *pointedly* ignore that an international program is a series of compromises, some of them very difficult to foresee... That is a
226 Post contains images jollo : Don't you tell me... with a distinct lack of good judgement (I was young back then) I made *that* my job. I will quote you again as you summed it up
227 Post contains images Pihero : I was in fact *barking* at the trees of "the opponents of the A400M on this forum " that I thought I fairly identified in post # 222. If I wasn't cle
228 Post contains images jollo : No offense taken, no apologies needed. I still think we agree on most of the basics and of the principles, and I disagree with you *only* when you ta
229 Pihero : The gearbox has been the responsibility of Safran's Hispano-Suiza . Once again, there could be no better-experienced designer for that part, HS havin
230 Revelation : I'm not following. Many are saying that getting consensus on an international program is one of the largest challenges so it's not clear that the cho
231 jollo : I'm confused about this detail: I can find no references about HS building the A400M's power gear box (HS' own website says its contribution to the A
232 Post contains links Pihero : Not quite true : Everybody agreed on the dimensions and the transport capabilities. Where the divergences lay was about special needs added onto the
233 Post contains links jollo : Ah, here was my misunderstanding: HS builds the *accessory* gearbox (powering hydraulic and fuel pumps, electric generators, etc.), while Avio builds
234 kanban : there seems to be a lot of beating of dead horses here.. the contracts were released long ago, the fumbles and stumbles resolved, we can sustain argu
235 Revelation : I'm wondering if you have any links on this, not because I doubt you in, but because I'd be interested in how they came to agreement on the dimension
236 Post contains links Revelation : One reference I found said: Interesting how they talked themselves into the largest Western turboprop ever, which previous posters noted was risky and
237 jollo : That particular horse may be "dead" (luckily, it looks to be alive and well), but we (Europeans) had better to learn form mistakes if we want to keep
238 kanban : by 'dead horses' I meant old arguments, not the plane itself..
239 jollo : Thanks, I understood that. You can read my sentence as "That particular *argument* may be dead, but we (Europeans) had better learn from mistakes if
240 moo : Thats not the issue, as its what is usually done on European projects: EuroJet Turbo GmbH - Eurofighter engine Turbo-Union - Panavia Tornado engine E
241 jollo : I'll repeat myself: the engineering expertise of the partecipants is beyond doubt, but the team - its composition and most specifically its managemen
242 Post contains links jollo : I noticed this interesting little piece of good news from the European Defence Agency (EDA) AAR project: To get back on topic, one of the shorter-ter
243 Post contains images astuteman : The answer seems to me to be obvious, as one who has spent a fair amount of time in defence procurement....... In fact, what the references to the C1
244 Revelation : I think you can understand how those of us outside the defense sphere can not help but think it's all a scam. > Government writes spec > Contra
245 Post contains images astuteman : That wasn't my point. It's a grossly incompetent process in very many ways - especially when governments, as you say, proclaim the benefits of adopti
246 Post contains images astuteman : As a follow up to my previouis post - my question to you would be "But who is your scorn directed at? The contractor? The customer(s)? Or the whole e
247 Revelation : It's hard to find a better word from a taxpayer's point of view. Everyone involved is dishonest about what they will provide and what it will cost an
248 Post contains images astuteman : In my view that is still a very jaundiced misrepresentation of what actually happens. As I said before, there may be nuances between the process in t
249 Post contains links Bogi : "The French army hopes to receive its first Airbus A400M military transport aircraft in time for the country's annual Bastille Day celebrations on Jul
250 Post contains links BigJKU : http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...fter-sales-push-at-paris-show.html I will be interested to see how this goes. I would think the big problem for
251 Post contains links Bogi : Second A400M for France completes engine runs
252 Post contains images queb : with refuelling pods https://twitter.com/FrancoisJulian/status/339640173740576769/photo/1
253 bikerthai : Nice photo. The beast does seem more menacing looking than a C-130. Must be from the 8 blades engines and reverse dihedral. bt
254 Post contains links queb : low speed refuelling test (105 to 115 knots) with an EC725 helicopter http://youtu.be/Oslzxhkdzh8
255 KarelXWB : Still no delivery. There is a rumor that the French Army has rejected the first aircraft due to technical issues.
256 BigJKU : I would find that pretty hard to believe...the French Air Force has to know that would be a huge issue for the program. If they did that something mu
257 Post contains links chuchoteur : The French DGA haven't "rejected" the plane. The acceptance process is a new one, and it seems that it has been underestimated. Given the many technic
258 Post contains images bikerthai : Depend on the level of details the accepting delegation gets in to, there could be a lot of minor pick-ups that need to be addressed before acceptanc
259 chuchoteur : The article says "Fatalement c'est long, car ce processus se fait sous une forme nouvelle et la DGA veut que tout soit en conformité", which transla
260 Post contains images kanban : maybe the found some placards that contained words banned/deemed improper by the L'Académie Française ? or someone left the nickname 'Grizzly' somew
261 ptrjong : I guess the C-17 was delayed because the placards contained words banned by the overnaxious automated pornography censor. Come on, cut the crap please
262 Post contains images bikerthai : Paperwork and red tape. I truly understand. Must satisfy the auditors bt
263 Post contains links KarelXWB : I must have mistranslated the original article, sorry. There is some news: the A400M performed its first airfield assault test: http://www.airbusmili
264 Post contains links KarelXWB : The seven member countries of the A400M program on July 19 recommended military certification of the A400M military transport aircraft, the latest ste
265 mrg : Great news. I'm happy that the programme is now transitioning to the production phase. I do hope that they carry on with trying to reduce the empty we
266 Post contains links KarelXWB : First delivery due this week. http://twitter.com/R_Wall/status/362495779442667520 http://www.airbusmilitary.com/PressC...itial-Operating-Clearance-IOC
267 breiz : A400M MSN 007 was officially delivered to the DGA ( French government defense procurement agency) at Sevilla (SVQ) on August 1st, 2013. At long last.
268 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Today was the official delivery ceremony. Airbus Military A400M F-RBAA by EADSpics, on Flickr
269 DTW2HYD : Congratulations Airbus & French AF. A400M is definitely a new generation air lifter.
270 KarelXWB : The second A400M has been handed over to the French Air Force, and the first for Turkey will follow "very soon".
271 Post contains images breiz : It will soon go too fast . The delivery schedule for the French AF is 2 in 2013 (completed), 4 in 2014 and 2015, 3 in 2016 and 2 in 2017. Still talki
272 KarelXWB : I thought there would be 4 deliveries this year, 3x French AF and 1x Turkey. Will there be 3 deliveries instead, or will Turkey get 2 this year?
273 breiz : August 2012 quote from Airbus Military: "Airbus Military maintains the overall delivery plan of four aircraft in 2013. There is a slight impact on th
274 KarelXWB : Thanks for the information.
275 petera380 : Does anyone have a A400 production list?
276 Post contains links queb : http://lmgtfy.com/?q=a400m+production+list
277 Post contains links KarelXWB : A400M refuelled in flight for first time: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...d-in-flight-for-first-time-393837/
278 Post contains links Revelation : Looks like French forces will be increasing in the CAR: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25268100 The article goes on to say that the UK transpo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic A400M French AF
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
A330 For French AF posted Wed Sep 17 2008 15:00:05 by Breiz
French AF KC135 Low Pass In Chad posted Wed Jan 30 2008 12:52:06 by Clydenairways
German Marine Do 228 And French AF TBM 700 At AGB posted Fri Oct 7 2005 22:21:09 by A342
French AF A340-300's..... For What? posted Tue Mar 25 2003 01:26:28 by N754pr
French AF Mirage Mid-air? posted Mon Mar 10 2003 12:24:35 by Aviatsiya
French Buy C-235s As A400M "Stop Gap" Measure posted Sun Apr 4 2010 07:50:59 by Lumberton
New French "AF One" For Nicolas Sarkozy posted Fri Jun 13 2008 03:41:20 by Marcus380
French Gazelle Shot Down In Mali posted Sat Jan 12 2013 07:48:50 by chuchoteur
French Navy Short But Nice Video posted Sun Dec 23 2012 02:58:12 by Alsatian
Algerian AF Transport Just Crashed In France posted Fri Nov 9 2012 09:15:09 by chuchoteur

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format