connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3619 times:
All well and good, and congratulations to Dassault.
- I don't expect India to pay full list for these a/c, or else industrial offsets of >100%, since France is desperate to export the a/c.
- Relatively few will be built in France, most will come off an FAL at HAL. Probably the first batch will be in knocked-down kit form, then HAL will build up their capability.
- Considering the way the Indian bureaucracy works, by the time the Indian Rafales achieve IOC, France will be retiring theirs - to be replaced by Tanaris/Neuron, or successors.
Quote: "'The first aircraft will be delivered three years after signature of the contract,' the source added.
An industry expert said the time lag reflected India’s request for two-seater jets rather than the one-seater model that Dassault currently produces.
India has insisted that the deal involves significant technology transfer and that Indian suppliers secure work equivalent to around half of the value of the contract.
'The negotiations for off-sets are progressing well,' the source added.
The conclusion of the deal has been repeatedly delayed, with India having initially set a target of the end of last year, which slipped to March 31, 2013, the end of the current fiscal year."
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1): I don't expect India to pay full list for these a/c, or else industrial offsets of >100%
Dangling the possibility of an additional order and bargaining very hard to lock down the price and offsets before signing.
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1): since France is desperate to export the a/c.
Their desperation is probably much less than before they were selected .
Quote: "French defense sources said last week that was unlikely to be met but voiced confidence it would finally be done, a stance echoed by Khurshid on his visit to Paris.
'We know good French wine takes time to mature and so do good contracts,' Khurshid said after a meeting with French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius. 'The contract details are being worked out. A decision has already been taken; just wait a little for the cork to pop and you’ll have some good wine to taste'."
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1): Considering the way the Indian bureaucracy works, by the time the Indian Rafales achieve IOC, France will be retiring theirs - to be replaced by Tanaris/Neuron, or successors.
Would have been just right had they ordered the A400M transport.
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 4788 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3537 times:
I guess that when the buyer wants to have an assembly line, technology transfers etc., at some point if the price increases they're too committed to back down.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
It's great to see India commiting to the program. Seeing concrete operational results on the battlefield probably did help them comfort their decision.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
francoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3195 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (4 months 6 hours ago) and read 2060 times:
Quoting seahawk (Reply 15): Delays because Dassault does not produce two.seaters?
I doubt the accuracy of the article on that point. They're probably still ironing out technical details. The Indian specced Rafales will likely differ from the French AF ones.
The Indian 2 seaters will probably require additional features that the original 2 seater doesn't have, especially since most of the Indian fleet will be based around that model.
Interestingly, the French AF initially only wanted the 2 seater for training and expected the highly automated systems to let one pilot easily carry out any mission. They were very doubtful of the use of the second guy on combat missions.
Now it seems that operational experience has once again proved the value of having a second man on board on complex missions, especially air to ground stuff in a hostile environment and that the 2 seater has proven its value as a lot more than a trainer.
That said, other than the extra seat, modified ECS, less fuel and more weight, I don't think there is any difference between the 1 and 2 seaters.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
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