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Latest B-52 Re-engine Proposal  
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12121 times:

Yes, there's yet another one out there now...

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_aerospacedaily_story.jsp?id=news/b5207073.xml

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11968 times:

So... what are we looking at here? Re-engining with 8 modern turbofans... JT8D-200 series? That could spell the end of much of the MD-80 fleet. RR Spey is out of the question. Perhaps BR-715. Either way, 4 engines or 8, it promises to be a different looking bird. Are there any artist's impressions available that shows how these re-engined birds would look?

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11881 times:

I think the proposal could come down to between using four GE F103 (neé CF6-50) engines rated at 51,000 lb. thrust or eight Pratt & Whitney JT8D-219 engines rated at 22,000 lb. thrust. The big question is whether the new engines will be able to withstand the rigors of low-altitude flying, which can impose a huge amount of stress on the engines.

User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11856 times:

it wont happen, why would it? the Airforce has tons of TF-33 spares to choose from with the retirement of the c-141 tf-33s and the Kc-135e's tf-33s whats the point.


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11843 times:

it wont happen, why would it? the Airforce has tons of TF-33 spares to choose from with the retirement of the c-141 tf-33s and the Kc-135e's tf-33s whats the point.

Perhaps so, and that's the cheapest option in the short term, but parts availability isn't the only factor.

New engines would presumably have lower downtime.

Plus, they'd be more fuel-efficient, hence improved range and/or less mid-air refuelling on long deployments.

Both of these would also imply savings in the long term.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11840 times:

What good are boatloads of TF-33s if you can't afford to service them? Plus, what kind of reliability would you expect from an engine that not only has been sitting in a warehouse for 20 years, and before that recieved god knows what kind of maintainence while hanging off the wing of some beat up south american freighter? Maybe on the C-5 reliability is not an issue (hey, you don't really need the CF6 upgrade, the Air Force can just keep repairing the engines you're currently stuck with indefinitely, right?) but with current useage of the B-52 (they are still flying sorties over Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as participating in excercises in Africa), it's a way of piling up long hours per cycle. What is the minimum amount of engines that a B-52 can fly on now anyway? And how close to those numbers are the crews experiencing? 8 engines means twice the likelyhood of something going wrong as on the KC-135/C-141, and with their podded design, if a turbine comes apart, it'll probably take out its neighbor too. The BUFF needs new engines now, and will even more so by the time the study is finished. Constantly reworking clapped-out TF-33s may seem like the easiest solution, but new engines will be cheaper in the long run.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11796 times:

The C-5 is a totally different subject, the TF-39 is not in abundant supply unlike the TF-33, there are no spares for the 39, and most of the TF-33's arent siting in a junk yard for 20 years, they are maintained in viable storage to be used when needed. The TF-33 relaiblity is also fairly high and there arent any major defects for the engine. The buff is in no rushed need for an engine upgrade, there are other projects out there that require funding before the B-52 needs new engines. And if current trends keep up the Buff or C-5 will never see upgraded engines.


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11805 times:

Anybody else besides me feel that a B-52 isnt' a B-52 unless it has eight motors?

I say forget the four engine mod, and mount 8 Br-715's on the sucker.

But I also want to say, a lot of the time the older engines are stronger then the newer designs.

They overbuilt everything back then, since they didn't know how much they could wittle away.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11769 times:

If you read correctly it's looks to be just a reporter digging up the old plan that was rejected in 1996 and writing it's under review...




I wish I were flying
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

I disagree, as the report states clearly that there is a current research program underway, and that this new one is about to/ has already started. I really doubt that they would just re-publish a 7 year old article in Aviation Week, especially when it appears with articles about the prototype stealth drone used in Iraq as well.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11734 times:

Nothing on http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/...
Any other news on it?



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineSWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11722 times:

No, no, no, no, no. Don't go messing with my big babies like that! Its not a B-52 if its got 4 engines! We must have 8! What's a B-52 with 4 engines? It would look like an anorexic Antonov aircraft or something.
Hmmm, maybe I could get a TF-33 for cheap then and stick in my back yard. On second thought, I don't think this would go over real big with the home owners association  Sad
I love this plane. They cant disfigure her like that! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!



I believe I can fly.....
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11730 times:

Hey SWA TPA i read your dosier and noticed how much you liked Buffs, i used to be the Crew Chief on 61-0007 "the Black Widow" at Minot AFB ND. I loved the aircraft and hope it gets more funding but i dont think it will happen, im sure it will remain the 8 engine behemoth it is.


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineDragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11577 times:

You lived in ND Galaxy? I'm sorry to hear that  Wink/being sarcastic. I'm over here in GFK going to the University of North Dakota. Haven't been out to Minot, but I would imagine there's even less to do out there  Wink/being sarcastic.

--dragogoalie-#88--



Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
User currently offlineManzoori From UK - England, joined Sep 2002, 1516 posts, RR: 33
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11459 times:

Something like this perhaps?


 Wink/being sarcastic

Rez



Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11461 times:

Thr original image on your site looks good, the one on this page here shows up incomplete. The original is here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rez.manzoori/fakes/524-buff.jpg . I especially like the smoke trails coming off.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineManzoori From UK - England, joined Sep 2002, 1516 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11469 times:

Thanks for the comment TJ!

Yeah... the incomplete image thing is because of the new 'skyscraper' ad format seen down the side of the messages. As a first class member, If I were to log in then the image would appear OK on this page.

As for the smoke... hehehe! They're the original smoke from the dirty old TF-33! I would hope if they ever got re-engined with any of the newer engines then the last thing you would see on take-off is the plumes of smoke pouring out the back!!  Wink/being sarcastic

Cheers!

Rez
 Big thumbs up




Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11428 times:

it wouldn't look like a B-52 with only 4 engines. take 8 engines off the A340 and put them on. that might look better, no?




"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11417 times:

Minot at least has hills.

As far as the 4 engined B-52.


No sir. I don't like it.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11385 times:

I have to disagree with Mr. Horse in the above statement. Watching too much Ren and Stimpy lately? I quite like it. Just what the BUFF needs, more bulbous interesting-looking hangy-off thingies. For a real interesting look, strap a pair of the proposed 15,000lb MOABS (not the original 21,000 pounders) onto the wing pylons.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 10031 times:

Mid-air refueling costs $17.50 per gal (!)

Makes ya think.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 10026 times:

Just use GE90s.  Big grin Actually, why not CF6-80s instead of CF6-50s?


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

Well the Br715, was my original suggestion a long time ago. But how about 8 off those Allisons that are used on the citation X?

Actually there is a 707 CFM-56 re-engine kit out there so why not take the TF-33's off the E-8,E-3, and the other remaining 707 frames.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10006 times:

Convert them all to Old Dog configuration.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1609 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9970 times:
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Seeing that the Bush administration just told the DoD to cut their procurement budget by $10,000,000,000 ($10 billion) to pay for more troops and supplies for Iraq, I think the chance of reengining B-52s is zero.

25 KEESJE : Some time ago there was a study of reengining them with 6 cfm56 class engines Story was a failure of one off the outwing engines would create some sta
26 Moose135 : Mid-air refueling costs $17.50 per gal (!) And for that, we don't even check the oil or clean the windshield! Moose (ex-KC-135 driver)
27 KFLLCFII : Please forgive me for being ignorant, but what does BUFF stand for?
28 Spacepope : BUFF means "Big Ugly Fat F*cker" And a quick clarification, E-3s in USAF service do not have CFM-56 powerplants, only TF-33. The E-8 fleet has just pe
29 AeroWeanie : The E-8s will probably get JT8D-200s, not CFM56s. The CFM56 nacelles block part of the belly radar sweep.
30 KC135TopBoom : Just hang 8 J-57s on the B-52H and call it a B-52G! Steam-jets forever!!!!!!!!! LOL
31 Post contains images Venus6971 : To all of you who think why just keep the TF-33 there are ton's of them in stock and storage. Well take it from someone who has changed a few Tf-33's
32 DL021 : Has anyone mentioned that the ground clearance required for high bypass turbofans such as the CF-6 may exceed that allowed by the BUFF? Does anyone ha
33 LeanOfPeak : Don't think it's a concern. If the engines would not clear the ground, the re-engine proposals would be even more difficult to sell than they are. The
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