canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6918 times:
This past weekend President Obama visited South Florida. He parked Air Force One at Galaxy Aviation on the south ramp at PBI - my home airport - for part of 4 days. The problem is where Air Force One parked is the regular parking spot for Donald Trump's 757. During the winter, Trump flies into PBI almost every weekend. This weekend was no exception (in fact he flew in and out twice), but was forced to park his 757 on the opposite side of the airport, close to the main passenger terminal. It's the first time I have ever seen Trump's plane get trumped. Wonder if this was a little payback for all the criticism Trump handed Obama during the recent election?
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19687 posts, RR: 56 Reply 1, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6823 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Thread starter): Wonder if this was a little payback for all the criticism Trump handed Obama during the recent election?
Karmic payback perhaps, but it certainly wasn't planned that way. The Air Force doesn't play those games, and they'll park wherever it's best for them. And whoever is normally in those spots will have to find somewhere else, no matter who they are.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5204 times:
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6): Where the 757 normally parks. Is it shootable?
Yes and no. It is usually parked close enough to the fence line without any large hangers in front of it, but there are frequently other bizjets parked around it. If you flightaware alert his tail number N757AF, his flights in and out are usually quite predictable this time of year (arrives most Fridays - departs most Sundays/Mondays), so shooting landings or takeoffs is very possible.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4911 times:
Just got word that when Trump first arrived his 757 taxied over and went nose to nose with Air Force One. Apparently it was arranged in advance. Both flight crews got out, toured the other aircraft, and took photos, before Trump's aircraft was moved to the north side of the airport.
Just got word that when Trump first arrived his 757 taxied over and went nose to nose with Air Force One. Apparently it was arranged in advance. Both flight crews got out, toured the other aircraft, and took photos, before Trump's aircraft was moved to the north side of the airport.
I find this extremely hard to believe.
Why on earth would the AF 1 Crew allow a civilian Aircraft, regardless of who it belongs to to come anywhere near their Aircraft ? let alone allow anyone who does not have business aboard (and has been cleared by the secret service)
No one gets aboard AF1 without a very good reason.
Especially anyone connected to 'The Donald !' not exactly our President's biggest fan.
Calling BS on this one, unless of course you can substantiate your account.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
JeffSFO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 820 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4698 times:
This isn't the first time one of Trump's planes has parked at a place other than the Galaxy Aviation hangar area. Here's a shot from back when Trump had his 727 and it's over by the Jet Aviation hangars at PBI:
AviRaider From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4634 times:
There is a perception that the Secret Service can just park Air Force One anywhere they please but it's really a concert act with a lot of players to plan the right spot out for security and logistics, etc. Because it's Air Force One they can pretty much get what they want but they too still have to work with the owners and operators for rights and permissions at civilian airports.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4148 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 12): Calling BS on this one, unless of course you can substantiate your account.
I can't reveal the sources, but the information is accurate. Air Force One is a very regular visitor to PBI as is Trump's 757.
If such an event took place there would be pictures. You cannot substantiate it in any way and, as I said there is no way
the AF1 crew and / or the Secret service would have allowed it.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4026 times:
Agreed...totally bogus. That would never be allowed in a situation like that.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3925 times:
Quoting checksixx (Reply 18): Agreed...totally bogus. That would never be allowed in a situation like that.
Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The source, a witness, remains completely credible. This was likely arranged ahead of time (again, both aircraft are regulars at this airport and both use the same parking ramp). No photos for public consumption, taken late at night. Check my history of posts and see how many times I've posted unsubstantiated rumors.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2229 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3905 times:
Trump is also starting to fly his recently purchased Citation X to PBI.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3871 times:
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 20): Trump is also starting to fly his recently purchased Citation X to PBI.
I have been told the Citation X is for his daughter....I recently posted the first photo in the database of N725DT at PBI.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3865 times:
Had a second witness verify the meeting of the two aircraft. I was also informed some of the Air Force One crew were invited and welcomed at Trump International Country Club, which is a few blocks from PBI.
checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3820 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 19): Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The source, a witness, remains completely credible. This was likely arranged ahead of time (again, both aircraft are regulars at this airport and both use the same parking ramp). No photos for public consumption, taken late at night. Check my history of posts and see how many times I've posted unsubstantiated rumors.
Then post something that can validate it. The setup as you describe would be in major violation of the normal security protocols in place for any AF1 aircraft.
Max Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3288 posts, RR: 19 Reply 24, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3812 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 22): Had a second witness verify the meeting of the two aircraft. I was also informed some of the Air Force One crew were invited and welcomed at Trump International Country Club, which is a few blocks from PBI.
Talk is cheap !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3887 times:
This isn't talk, these are extremely credible people that witnessed what happened. Simply put - it happened, whether you want to believe it or not is up to you. Obviously no one from the Air Force One or Trump flight crews have enough interest to post on this forum - why would they - but what I have posted is accurate.
This isn't talk, these are extremely credible people that witnessed what happened. Simply put - it happened, whether you want to believe it or not is up to you. Obviously no one from the Air Force One or Trump flight crews have enough interest to post on this forum - why would they - but what I have posted is accurate.
No, nothing is credible without evidence.
The security around AF1 is without precedent, in fact the highest for any Aircraft in the world.
Your account defies logic, to believe it you would have to assume, for unknown reasons that all existing security protocols for the President of the United States Aircraft were temporarily waived for a 'private tour'
It's just unbelievable regardless of how many 'credible sources' you have, it is striking that all these sources have no evidence of this event !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
SSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 432 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3905 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 26): The security around AF1 is without precedent, in fact the highest for any Aircraft in the world.
Your account defies logic, to believe it you would have to assume, for unknown reasons that all existing security protocols for the President of the United States Aircraft were temporarily waived for a 'private tour'
It's just unbelievable regardless of how many 'credible sources' you have, it is striking that all these sources have no evidence of this event !
While I would find it surprising that Trump's crew got a tour, I don't find it impossible to believe, without evidence to the contrary. It's not like Obama was sleeping in the front when Trump's 57 rolled up, or that the claim is they got a run-down of every security secret. I'm sure the VC-25 crews know how to give tours without enabling espionage.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 28, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3867 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 26): No, nothing is credible without evidence.
Those that follow most organized religions would disagree.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 26): The security around AF1 is without precedent, in fact the highest for any Aircraft in the world.
I agree, but that doesn't mean this didn't happen. And I have been on the tarmac within 100 feet of Air Force One to photograph it - courtesy of that security.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 26): all existing security protocols for the President of the United States Aircraft were temporarily waived for a 'private tour'
This assumes you know what all the security protocols are.
Max Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3288 posts, RR: 19 Reply 29, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3831 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 28):
Reply 28, posted Tue Feb 26 2013 14:24:06 your local time (50 minutes 55 secs ago) and read 23 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
No, nothing is credible without evidence.
Those that follow most organized religions would disagree.
I thought you had evidence, now we are supposed to take it on 'faith' !!!
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 28):
Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
The security around AF1 is without precedent, in fact the highest for any Aircraft in the world.
I agree, but that doesn't mean this didn't happen. And I have been on the tarmac within 100 feet of Air Force One to photograph it - courtesy of that security.
Interesting, even if that is true it's not the same as:
a) Claiming an individuals (The 'Donald's' no less, as we know, not the greatest of Obama fans) civilian aircraft was allowed to park right next to AF1.
b) Claiming the Civilian Pilots of this Aircraft were given a private tour of AF 1 despite having no business on board, being allowed to access the most secure Military Transport in the world.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
all existing security protocols for the President of the United States Aircraft were temporarily waived for a 'private tour'
This assumes you know what all the security protocols are.
I know that no one gets aboard AF1 without a damn good reason. You assume that people will believe this nonsense, it would be a lot more believable if some evidence was provided, so far you have provided none and that will not change.
You shouldn't believe everything you hear you know !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3812 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 29): You shouldn't believe everything you hear you know !
I don't. But you shouldn't dismiss everything either. You should consider the source and use your best judgement. My best judgement tells me the two independent sources with no bias who both gave the same account of the event they witnessed in person was accurate. Believe it, don't believe it. Your call. Either way, have a nice day.
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3079 posts, RR: 5 Reply 33, posted (2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3804 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Thread starter): This past weekend President Obama visited South Florida. He parked Air Force One at Galaxy Aviation on the south ramp at PBI - my home airport - for part of 4 days.
this when he came down to play golf with Tiger Woods? I thought Air Force was putting an end to non essential flying - that is why they are talking about grounding the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 10): Just got word that when Trump first arrived his 757 taxied over and went nose to nose with Air Force One. Apparently it was arranged in advance. Both flight crews got out, toured the other aircraft, and took photos, before Trump's aircraft was moved to the north side of the airport.
Did Trump ask for certificate of manufacture for Air Force One?
checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (2 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3720 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 32): Me - and the two witnesses who first brought this to my attention.
Right...you (who was NOT there) and these two mystery witnesses. Too easy...name your witnesses and/or have them provide/post a photo. Shouldn't be too hard since this was a completely civilian, arranged/staged PR event, and you are posting about it here.
Are you aware of the Karl Sagan quote "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? whilst this is not what he was talking about I think it applies. Put up or shut up.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 38, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3603 times:
I will not
Quoting Max Q (Reply 35): If this really happened there would be some evidence
There is plenty of evidence, just not for public consumption. Wouldn't be the first time something involving the military/government wasn't conducted for the public. I stand by my witnesses, who I cannot reveal, because of their role during the event. They have never provided me incorrect information in the past. They are very knowledgeable when it comes to PBI aircraft operations, and as such, they are extremely important to me.
zanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3529 times:
Usually against my better judgement to contribute to an AF1 thread... but..
I worked AF1 ground support at ADW at one point in my career. AF1 tours were rare but they did occur at the Commanders discretion. However only at invitation of the Aircraft Commander
Tour of AF1 by Trumps crews? Plausible, particularly if they went out of their way to accomodate AF1.
[Edited 2013-02-27 15:39:22]
[Edited 2013-02-27 16:10:11]
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canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3504 times:
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 39): Usually against my better judgement to contribute to an AF1 thread... but..
I understand.....and fully appreciate your willingness to comment.
mcoatc From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 150 posts, RR: 2 Reply 41, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3477 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 35): If this really happened there would be some evidence, funny that I can't find any, you can't provide any and neither can anyone else.
Like the evidence of Obama playing golf with Tiger that the press corp was upset they couldn't get?
Come on Max, I doubt they would have CNN following them along. Is it not possible that when the air force or secret service team was in town the weekend earlier a favor was asked, someone has a common friend, etc?
I realize that in a world where we have gone seemingly security insane this may seem improbable, but I've gotten tours of many things simply by asking. Yeah yeah I get it, it's AF1. Nevertheless, someone wins Powerball, someone sleeps with Kate Upton, and now and then I bet that someone gets a private tour of AF1.
Max Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3288 posts, RR: 19 Reply 42, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3475 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 38):
There is plenty of evidence, just not for public consumption.
Evidence that is not shown or revealed is not evidence, just rumour or hearsay.
You have no credibility.
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 38): I stand by my witnesses, who I cannot reveal, because of their role during the event.
I stand by my belief that the sun will start rising in the west, I just can't provide any evidence of this, reveal who told me and when it will start happening, just trust me.
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 38): They are very knowledgeable when it comes to PBI aircraft operations, and as such, they are extremely important to me.
Well, that says it all then.
I am still calling BS and your claim will remain BS unless you substantiate it.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3463 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 42): I am still calling BS and your claim will remain BS unless you substantiate it.
It will remain BS to you - clearly not to many others.
Cadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1408 posts, RR: 5 Reply 45, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3446 times:
Dumb question regarding Trump's 757, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass. What's its FAA callsign? I mean I might wanna download it into FSX, and I strive for accuracy.
checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3421 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 38): There is plenty of evidence, just not for public consumption. Wouldn't be the first time something involving the military/government wasn't conducted for the public. I stand by my witnesses, who I cannot reveal, because of their role during the event.
So it was secret or sensitive information then? So your witnesses could have violated their non-disclosure agreements by disclosing to you? You who now posted it to a public forum? So you're a party to the leakage of sensitive information then?
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 47, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3382 times:
Clearly you haven't read all the responses in this forum.
Quoting checksixx (Reply 46): So it was secret or sensitive information then? So your witnesses could have violated their non-disclosure agreements by disclosing to you? You who now posted it to a public forum? So you're a party to the leakage of sensitive information then?
Never said anything about non-disclosure agreements. There are plenty of job-related reasons for not being named as a source. In this case, it is a simple matter of respect. My sources are way too valuable to me. They have never given me incorrect information in the past - and I want to make sure they continue to provide me with information. That reason alone is worth not outting them in this forum just to satisfy everyone's need to understand how credible they are.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1588 posts, RR: 4 Reply 48, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3382 times:
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 39):
Tour of AF1 by Trumps crews? Plausible, particularly if they went out of their way to accomodate AF1.
Thanks zanl188 for your comment. I would add that the following possibility:
If who ever crew the Trump plane were AF reservists, it would have been easier to clear them for access because more likely than not their security clearance would be up to date.
checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3241 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 47): Never said anything about non-disclosure agreements. There are plenty of job-related reasons for not being named as a source. In this case, it is a simple matter of respect. My sources are way too valuable to me. They have never given me incorrect information in the past - and I want to make sure they continue to provide me with information. That reason alone is worth not outting them in this forum just to satisfy everyone's need to understand how credible they are.
You're right...I did. You keep up with the 'not for the public' stance, yet your sources have leaked it to the public. They have violated non-disclosure agreements. Plain and simple. You seem to be crafting each explanation as the inquiry here changes. 'They' have no credibility here as its just you telling this tale.
Bthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 411 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3221 times:
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 48): If who ever crew the Trump plane were AF reservists, it would have been easier to clear them for access because more likely than not their security clearance would be up to date.
Slightly off topic but how are large private jets crewed? Are they independently employed or agency contracted? If independent, I would think being a reservist wouldn't be feasible as they wouldn't have a large pool of pilots to cover them.
cargotanker From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 118 posts, RR: 1 Reply 51, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3214 times:
Quoting checksixx (Reply 46): So it was secret or sensitive information then? So your witnesses could have violated their non-disclosure agreements by disclosing to you? You who now posted it to a public forum? So you're a party to the leakage of sensitive information then?
Hey fellas, you are way off on your assertions and not being very nice about it either. I've spent a lot of time hauling around POTUS limos and working with the secret service. Air Force 1 tours at locations away from Andrews are not the big deal that you are making it out to be. It does not require a security clearance or non-disclosure agreement. I believe it is fairly common for FBO personnel who are involved with providing some level of service to AF1 to get a tour if time/circumstances permit. The secret service simply checks their IDs (drivers license) beforehand and lets the Air Force crew provide a quick tour. I'm sure the AF1 crew would be interested in what Mr Trump's plane looks like on the inside and would gladly reciprocate the tour with Trump aircrew. (I've done a lot of "you show me your plane and I'll show you mine" myself) The politics of Mr Trump would not be a factor in granting his aircrew a tour.
Again, I've flown dozens of presidential support missions stateside and overseas. I've flown Clinton's and Bush's and Obama's limos and support vehicles. This is a plausible and not unusual story.
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3197 times:
Quoting checksixx (Reply 49): They have violated non-disclosure agreements
This is completely not true. This event took place in public. Anyone standing near the airport fence at the right time could have witnessed the meeting.
Quoting checksixx (Reply 49): 'They' have no credibility here as its just you telling this tale.
I'm still amazed you continue to deny this type of event can happen when.....
Quoting cargotanker (Reply 51): Again, I've flown dozens of presidential support missions stateside and overseas. I've flown Clinton's and Bush's and Obama's limos and support vehicles. This is a plausible and not unusual story.
and
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 39): I worked AF1 ground support at ADW at one point in my career. AF1 tours were rare but they did occur at the Commanders discretion. However only at invitation of the Aircraft Commander
Tour of AF1 by Trumps crews? Plausible, particularly if they went out of their way to accomodate AF1.
SSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 432 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3182 times:
Quoting cargotanker (Reply 51): Quoting Max Q (Reply 42):
You have no credibility.
Quoting checksixx (Reply 46):
So it was secret or sensitive information then? So your witnesses could have violated their non-disclosure agreements by disclosing to you? You who now posted it to a public forum? So you're a party to the leakage of sensitive information then?
Hey fellas, you are way off on your assertions and not being very nice about it either. I've spent a lot of time hauling around POTUS limos and working with the secret service. Air Force 1 tours at locations away from Andrews are not the big deal that you are making it out to be.
Honestly. It's time to stop berating the guy who is sharing the sort of info we welcome on this site, because your discovery-channel knowledge of VC-25 security makes you absolutely certain he must be making things up. Turns out he's not the one making things up. Multiple people have confirmed tours happen, and that makes a TON of sense.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1588 posts, RR: 4 Reply 54, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3165 times:
Quoting cargotanker (Reply 51):
Again, I've flown dozens of presidential support missions stateside and overseas. I've flown Clinton's and Bush's and Obama's limos and support vehicles. This is a plausible and not unusual story.
zanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 57, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3083 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 56): No evidence has yet been provided and it still seems highly unlikely that anyone without a good reason would be allowed
on AF1.
What evidence would satisfy you? What would you consider a good reason? Avoiding the poor PR Trump could bring seems a reasonable enough reason to me. Lots of things happen with these missions/aircraft that aren't a matter of public record, doesn't mean they didn't happen....
Personally I saw the Man get off the aircraft and wave at... no one... It was a nice day, well lit, and the press wanted a photo op. I've also seen the Man get off the aircraft in flip flops & shorts, press was told no photos of that arrival. So no "evidence" of that. I could go on but you'd just ask for "evidence".
I think we've just witnessed the birth of another phony a.net myth....
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checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 58, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3074 times:
Quoting SSTeve (Reply 53): because your discovery-channel knowledge of VC-25 security makes you absolutely certain he must be making things up.
My first hand experience with a secret service issued clearance, providing close in security for AF1 NUMEROUS times, tells me otherwise.
Which is exactly the point. Unless the White House or the Air Force is intentionally seeking to publicize AF1 (and they rarely do) there won't be any pictures or "evidence". I could relate a number of interesting, yet true, events about the aircraft which I cannot "prove" because the press was not present and no one took pictures - that does not mean the events did not occur.
If Canyonblue had a pix of Trumps crew going aboard AF1 with the Presidential crew would that help? You know what both of those groups look like so that you could verify the veracity of the claim?
Heck I got a tour of the aircraft myself.. Can I prove it with "evidence" that would satisfy the a.net naysayers? No I cannot... I suppose if the White House photographer had been available I could have asked for a picture and gotten it.. but that would have been a private matter between me, the photog, and whomever else was in the picture. If Trumps crew did get a tour I suspect there will soon be a pix hanging in their office BTW...
The "extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence" here is the assertion that no one without business aboard can be invited aboard for a tour.
Quoting checksixx (Reply 58): My first hand experience with a secret service issued clearance, providing close in security for AF1 NUMEROUS times, tells me otherwise.
Security Forces then, but not on the AF1 detail I take it?
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checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 61, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2979 times:
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 60): Quoting checksixx (Reply 58):
My first hand experience with a secret service issued clearance, providing close in security for AF1 NUMEROUS times, tells me otherwise.
Security Forces then, but not on the AF1 detail I take it?
Assume anything you like...bottom line is that NOTHING would go inside the perimeter without having been searched. Not to mention that there would have to be a good reason for it in the first place. Putting an aircraft nose-to-nose with AF1 simply wouldn't be allowed from a security standpoint. It even sounds ridiculous. Now a staged event, with the VC-25 and not having the President using it, I could understand...but not when the jet is on standby for him.
zanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 63, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2971 times:
Quoting checksixx (Reply 61): bottom line is that NOTHING would go inside the perimeter without having been searched. Not to mention that there would have to be a good reason for it in the first place. Putting an aircraft nose-to-nose with AF1 simply wouldn't be allowed from a security standpoint. It even sounds ridiculous.
Agreed, but then I wasn't trying to prove that those things occurred.
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canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 64, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2930 times:
Quoting checksixx (Reply 61): bottom line is that NOTHING would go inside the perimeter without having been searched.
Never said they were not searched.
Quoting checksixx (Reply 61): Now a staged event, with the VC-25 and not having the President using it, I could understand...but not when the jet is on standby for him.
While technically the aircraft was on standby, this was an unusual trip. This event happened on day one of a 4-day stay for Air Force One at PBI. And it could easily have been "staged" ahead of time. Both Air Force One and Trump's 757 are regular visitors to PBI.
Quoting checksixx (Reply 61): Not to mention that there would have to be a good reason for it in the first place
Crews of two of the most visible aircraft in the country wanted to see what the other one looked like.
SA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 2916 posts, RR: 20 Reply 67, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2079 times:
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