Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Aircrafts W/o Visible Reg Or Code : Allowed?  
User currently offlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 423 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6018 times:

Hello,

I have noticed that the Republique Francaise airliners do not carry visible registration or code on their fuselage. There are several FA7X or F900s in the fleet so how to recognize them ? Is it also permitted ?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Gimmillaro
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexandre Dubath


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Samuel Dupont
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alsatian D


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © S. Mendes - Aerospray
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Tonna




Ok I am French but I am not on strike
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5937 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Republique Francaise is not an airline, it's a government/military transports.


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 885 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

I thought it was mandatory for all aircraft including military to display a reg/serial number.


To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlinepenguins From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

If I am not mistaken, WN's New Mexico One has no visible registration.

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5646 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting penguins (Reply 3):
If I am not mistaken, WN's New Mexico One has no visible registration.

It has a visible registration it is just in that shadow colored font. All of their registrations that are on a white background are like that.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3023 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5618 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting offloaded (Reply 2):

I thought it was mandatory for all aircraft including military to display a reg/serial number.

its only mandatory for civilian or paramilitary aircraft to carry a registration.

Military/Government there is no rule.

Still I find it odd that there is NO external reference number on the aircraft, must make ground handling confusing when there are more than 1 of a type at the same location.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

Apparently no reg displayed on these guys. I see them fly overhead a couple of times a week from my office --


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andy Egloff



User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6654 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5446 times:

Well, do they have a reg that could be displayed ?

Do the VC-25 have regs ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5421 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
Do the VC-25 have regs ?

They have their ship number on the tail in black



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 5):
Still I find it odd that there is NO external reference number on the aircraft, must make ground handling confusing when there are more than 1 of a type at the same location.

I'm sure there is something - but you probably need to be within 20-40 feet of the aircraft to see it.

Unmarked aircraft are used for security purposes to prevent tracking of an aircraft. Back in the 60s, a USN squadron I was assigned to a decade later used to not mark their aircraft. They also use fake identification callsigns / numbers to prevent tracking of the aircraft.

Until the day one of the ELINT birds landed at Bangkok and used the identification of another EC-121 which had actually landed at the airport an hour earlier.


User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2438 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 5):
its only mandatory for civilian or paramilitary aircraft to carry a registration.

Military/Government there is no rule.

No registration number on the Blue Angels. I don't think that "7" would be considered a registration number, even for the military.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bill Shemley
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Russell Hill




Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlinen53614 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 10):
No registration number on the Blue Angels.

The Blues all have their Bureau Numbers right under the horizontal stabilizer.



B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B73G B738 B739 B742 B752 B772 A320 A319 CRJ2 DHC8 E135 E140 E145
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5213 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Many US Navy Orions have Bureau Number stencilled on the inner face of the front under carriage doors and have for a decade or so.

User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

The Blue Angels do carry a bureau number, but the Thunderbirds don't display their serial number, which is a hassle when it comes to uploading T-Bird shots to this site. Making problems worse is the fact that the team numbers are decals and can be swapped around from plane to plane during the course of a tour. After one show where I took a bunch of pics, I e-mailed the team to see if they could provide the serials for each plane for the show I attended. They responded with the list I was after!

User currently offlinen53614 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5047 times:

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 13):
but the Thunderbirds don't display their serial number

I saw the Thunderbirds at Red Flag 13-2 media day (23 Jan) and the jets displayed the last three digits of their S/N inside the circle on the intake instead of 1-6. Of course, during a regular Thunderbirds show, the s/n isn't visible--very frustrating indeed!



B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B73G B738 B739 B742 B752 B772 A320 A319 CRJ2 DHC8 E135 E140 E145
User currently offlineKDTWflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 828 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

I know some US planes have done this for awhile on some planes such as this classic Vision Air example...

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...gsearch=N767VA&distinct_entry=true

It used to be rumored that the Vision Air flights were used for 'CIA' flights but who knows  



NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Quoting hivue (Reply 6):

The DAL P-3s are very special aircraft and were classified for over 30 years and still remain partly classified to this day. However, it looks like there is an aircraft number on the gear door.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineviasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1880 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4878 times:

Newest aircraft without a registration is the Airbus A320-200 of the Kingdom of Cambodia: http://livinginpp.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/p2239379.jpg

Who now the identity of this aircraft? Could it be a former Vietnam Airlines A320-214?

(picture was taken from this artikel: http://alfredmeier.me/2013/02/23/air-force-one-of-cambodia/)


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4878 times:

Don't forget this guy:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andras Kisgergely
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kral Michal



The registration is invisible in all the photo here on airliners.net, except for the second one I have linked above.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4846 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Are we sure they have no registration?

In the past, the CIA has used aircraft that looked registration-less from a distance, when in fact the registration was painted in a color only a few shades away from the livery, and could be seen from up close only.

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 5):
must make ground handling confusing when there are more than 1 of a type at the same location.

The odds of more than one Republique Francaise aircraft of the same type being in motion at the same time at the same airport are pretty small to say the least...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

I could be wrong but I believe the registration needs to be visible from at least 3 locations on the aircraft, rear fuselage, tail, nose gear door, over and under the wing...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3254 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

There's nothing more likey to make an aeroplane conspicuous than a lack of registration. It *SCREAMS* "aeroplane of interest", which is perhaps not the intention.

User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4782 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 16):
it looks like there is an aircraft number on the gear door

Nose gear door? Could be. I don't see one in this picture though --


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Perkins



User currently offlineAndyEastMids From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 1017 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

Regulatory authorities such as the FAA, CAA can issue an exemption for civilian registered airplanes to not carry visible external registration marks

User currently offlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 19):
Are we sure they have no registration?

F-RARF for the A330 République Francaise or F-RAFA and F-RAFB for the FA7X. I was very close of a Falcon 7X (the picture in the middle right of the thread starter) three weeks ago and I couldn't found any marks. I have chosen F-RAFA when uploading the picture because that was the registration written in the flight plan.



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2438 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 19):
Are we sure they have no registration?

In the past, the CIA has used aircraft that looked registration-less from a distance, when in fact the registration was painted in a color only a few shades away from the livery, and could be seen from up close only.
Quoting ADent (Reply 18):
The registration is invisible in all the photo here on airliners.net, except for the second one I have linked above.

The registration N767VA is barely visible aft of the aft entry door, just ahead of the horizontal tail. The registration number is almost the same color as the upper fuselage. Use the large picture format size to see it.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kral Michal




Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlinemarky From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 23):
Regulatory authorities such as the FAA, CAA can issue an exemption for civilian registered airplanes to not carry visible external registration marks

True, but would only be in exceptional circumstances. The UK CAA, for example, will only allow it on a very restricted basis, such as for filming purposes in a specific location for a very limited timescale.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 20):
could be wrong but I believe the registration needs to be visible from at least 3 locations on the aircraft, rear fuselage, tail, nose gear door, over and under the wing...

The display of registration marks are covered in Annex 7 to the Chicago Convention and require markings on the fuselage or tail, and underwing. No requirement for top of wing or nose gear door. Some countries' regulations differ from the ICAO requirements - no underwing markings for US registered aircraft, for example.

Military and state aircraft are a different matter, they can essentially do what they like.


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting n53614 (Reply 11):
The Blues all have their Bureau Numbers right under the horizontal stabilizer.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Manny Gonzalez - Thrust Images




The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4375 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 24):

F-RAFA looks like a civil registration, but it is merely a call sign in a batch given to the military.
Indeed, you won't find it here.
http://www.immat.aviation-civile.gou...r/immat/servlet/aeronef_liste.html

The military serial of this aircraft is 68, very simple and identical to the constuction number, but that's how the French system works.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter De Jong


On the Falcon 50s the serial is in small print on the port side of the tailfin.

The Patrouille de France Alpha Jets also wear their F- call signs, but the serials are found on the nosewheel door.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong



Peter  



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6654 posts, RR: 11
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4172 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 19):
The odds of more than one Republique Francaise aircraft of the same type being in motion at the same time at the same airport are pretty small to say the least...

Why ? Even without counting their base, I can see plenty of reasons for 2 Falcons (7X, 900, 50), 2 A340, or 2 A310 flying together. Only the A330 is an orphan.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 28):
Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):

As stated in the thread starter, my question was actually only about A330, FA7X and F900. The other aircraft types (A310, A340, FA50, AJET, RAFL, MIR2, MRF1, C130, C160, K35R, CN35, TBM7, E121...) carry a visible reg / serial / code.



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3960 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 30):

But they are all military aircraft, and they all have a military serial based on the construction number, even if it's (nearly) invisible.

On the topic of legal requirements, I think military aircraft are internationally required to carry national markings, but are not required to carry any sort of registration. Russian aircraft wear only a non-unique code after all, and USAF serials only appear on the aircraft in a mutilated form  



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3920 times:

Hello Peter,

Right. If you have the serial you can guess the code. If you have the reg you can get the code. If you have the code you can find the reg etc...

- Visible "registration" :


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirC
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Senand Matthias



- Visible serial and code :


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fabien Campillo
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alsatian D



Please check a picture of Falcon 7X French Air Force, and tell me if you are able to guess which one it is.



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4836 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

Quoting viasa (Reply 17):
Newest aircraft without a registration is the Airbus A320-200 of the Kingdom of Cambodia:

One can easily dismiss the registration when the livery is as nice as that.   

Guess aspiring leaders have one more perk to look forward to.   



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 32):

Hi Alsatian,

Of course that may be a problem. But only for reggie spotters and uploaders here  



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 34):
Of course that may be a problem. But only for reggie spotters and uploaders here

That is indeed a problem for us   but I thought it could also be a problem for the aviation authorities in case of incident.

Cheers

Dennis



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 10):
No registration number on the Blue Angels. I don't think that "7" would be considered a registration number, even for the military.

JohnJ does reply about the Blue Angels too - The Blue Angels have a 6 digit bureau number displayed under their horizontal stabelizers (as do all other US Navy F-18s) that are difficult to see unless you are underneath the aircraft by about 45 degrees or so. The numbers for the Blue Angels while having their F-18s have been in the 16#### such as 163844 (just a number I pulled out of my head), but something like that. I think the Blue Angel F-18s (since none are newer Super Hornets) have been in the 161### - 164### range. Some of the newest built Navy bureau numbers are up in the 168### range, which are the highest numbers so far (other than the pseudo bureau numbers the F-5 Tiger II agressors carry which are actual Air Force serial numbers made to look like a bureau number in its style).

As also JohnJ said - T-bird serial numbers are not visible. I even got close to one on display where you could climb on a ladder and look in the cockpit and I tried to see if there was a marking in the cockpit and I couldn't find it. I've just had to take guesses on some of the ones I have seen

Quoting hivue (Reply 6):
Apparently no reg displayed on these guys. I see them fly overhead a couple of times a week from my office --

Probably very small. I have seen some very tiny font serial numbers on T-1 Jayhawks and T-6 Texan IIs while at Airshows on static display that you had to walk right up to- to see. There was no way you could figure that one out from the ground unless you had an 800mm lens

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 13):
The Blue Angels do carry a bureau number, but the Thunderbirds don't display their serial number, which is a hassle when it comes to uploading T-Bird shots to this site. Making problems worse is the fact that the team numbers are decals and can be swapped around from plane to plane during the course of a tour. After one show where I took a bunch of pics, I e-mailed the team to see if they could provide the serials for each plane for the show I attended. They responded with the list I was after!

that is cool that they responded with a list for that. I noticed at one show they were flying 3 D models with 2 seats. The only D model they normally fly with is #7, but iin this case they had the number decals #1, 3 and 4 I believe which were all the 2 seaters


User currently offlinewalter2222 From Belgium, joined Sep 2005, 1299 posts, RR: 28
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

Here's an example of the Blue Angels' registration:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Walter Van Bel



Best regards,

Walter



canon 340d ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l is usm - ...
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Quoting walter2222 (Reply 37):
Here's an example of the Blue Angels' registration:

When the horizontal stabelizer is in that position you can see it - but normally from that angle it is difficult to see. That picture was taken in 2006, I believe all of those planes are retired and they got a newer block of F-18s that are in the 163-164 range. Valiant Air Command in Titusville FL has Blue Angel #5 in their museum that I last saw fly in 2006.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Aircrafts W/o Visible Reg Or Code : Allowed?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Air Force One: 748, 777-X Or Something Esle? posted Sat Sep 15 2012 13:00:41 by olddominion727
Aircraft Carriers: Armored Or Not? posted Thu Jul 19 2012 18:11:48 by flyingturtle
Rafales Or Typhoons Over San Antonio, TX posted Tue Jul 3 2012 11:02:00 by ebj1248650
F-15 Silent Eagle - Dead Or Alive? posted Thu Feb 16 2012 09:54:56 by andydtwnwa7
S Korea 4-4E Replacement: F-15 Or F-35? posted Fri Oct 14 2011 07:10:05 by art
Photo Of Atlantis Reentry From ISS Real Or Not? posted Sat Jul 23 2011 08:36:49 by HaveBlue
Midair Refuling Over Cleveland Or What Was It? posted Fri Jun 10 2011 06:34:33 by rohanghosh
Delta 2 / COSMO-SkyMed Launch Visible From LA posted Mon Nov 1 2010 23:02:26 by vikkyvik
Help With Blackhawk Reg (0-23590) posted Sun Aug 15 2010 17:34:30 by SNATH
USS Ranger To Be Moored In Fairview, Or posted Tue Aug 10 2010 19:17:59 by CGKings317

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format