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Usaf Cancels All Demo Flights Inc. Thunderbirds  
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 774 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7060 times:

http://www.csindy.com/IndyBlog/archi...ds-fly-the-coop-due-to-budget-cuts


"Effective today, active-duty, Reserve and Guard units will cease all aviation support to the public. This includes the cancellation of support to all air shows, tradeshows, flyovers (including funerals and military graduations), orientation flights, heritage flights, F-22 demonstration flights and open houses, unless the event includes only local static assets.

Additionally, the Air Force will cancel the Thunderbirds’ entire 2013 season beginning April 1."

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6916 times:

Non necessary flying for Military Aircraft

That Means El Presidente needs to keep Air Force One grounded unless its official business only too - no golf outings with Tiger Woods, countless Hawaii vacations, trips for speeches he can make from the White House, Jimmy Kimmel appearances for his wife etc.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6734 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 1):
That Means El Presidente needs to keep Air Force One grounded unless its official business only too - no golf outings with Tiger Woods, countless Hawaii vacations, trips for speeches he can make from the White House, Jimmy Kimmel appearances for his wife etc.

He will agree to cutting off spending unless it is for his own (public or private) travel.

 

Twitter:
Tim Robinson ‏@RAeSTimR
1st hits from #sequestration - USAF axes all aviation support to public events, air shows, cancels Thunderbirds 2013 season.

Tim Robinson ‏@RAeSTimR
USAF to also reduce flying hours by as much as 18% - 2/3 of active duty AF units to curtail home station training. #defence

    Wow!

              



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6727 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):
USAF to also reduce flying hours by as much as 18% - 2/3 of active duty AF units to curtail home station training.

From what I can determine the actual USAF budget cut is something around 4% yet they cut their "core business" by 18% .. I would tend to think the bloated fat tail of the fighting machine are not taking their share of the cuts. Tends to be the way.. the ones fudging the spreadsheets are rarely the ones that feel the pain.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6703 times:

Wrong...each service has significant cuts. There is no magic 'share' of cuts.

User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6653 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 3):
From what I can determine the actual USAF budget cut is something around 4% yet they cut their "core business" by 18% .. I would tend to think the bloated fat tail of the fighting machine are not taking their share of the cuts.

Flying time is something they can cut down, things like closing an airfield or emergency services can not be cut. Some non essential areas will have to take a larger share of the cuts.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12961 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6584 times:

Quoting chuchoteur (Thread starter):
Additionally, the Air Force will cancel the Thunderbirds’ entire 2013 season beginning April 1

Are we supposed to be sad?

It seems to be one of the wiser things to cut when funds are tight.

You don't expect LM and PW to agree to take 10% less on their F-22s and F-35s, do you?

[ note - these are rhetorical questions, not directed at the poster ]

Quoting stealthz (Reply 3):
I would tend to think the bloated fat tail of the fighting machine are not taking their share of the cuts. Tends to be the way.. the ones fudging the spreadsheets are rarely the ones that feel the pain.

I agree with the point you are making, but will point out the action would be different if this was a permanent 10%cut across the board vs one of indeterminate duration.

The bottom line is we are paying the Congress to make decisions and compromises and they are refusing to do so.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 1):
That Means El Presidente needs to keep Air Force One grounded unless its official business only too - no golf outings with Tiger Woods, countless Hawaii vacations, trips for speeches he can make from the White House, Jimmy Kimmel appearances for his wife etc.

Well I thought AF1 was a security measure ? Can the president really take a regular flight after all ? Then scrap the VC-25 fleet.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinePowerslide From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6409 times:

This include the Blue Angels too or are they under the Navy budgets?

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6377 times:

Quoting Powerslide (Reply 8):
This include the Blue Angels too or are they under the Navy budgets?

The Navy is implementing the required budget cuts according to their own priorities - but yes, effective April 1 - the Blue Angels season will end. The Navy imposed a similar ban as the Air Force in an order announced a week or so ago.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6361 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
Well I thought AF1 was a security measure ? Can the president really take a regular flight after all ? Then scrap the VC-25 fleet.

Air Force One is a security measure. However when you are cutting non essential flying for Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, military demos at airshows and canceling base airshows - how can you justify flying from Washington DC down to West Palm Beach to have a golf game with Tiger Woods - which is non essential flying of Marine One from WH to Andrews, C-17s to carry equipment as well as the VC-25 so the president can have fun at tax payer expense?

Thousands of people are losing jobs because of this while the president plays golf - this is like Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns. During these cuts Air Force One should only be used for absolutely necessary flights such as important world leader meetings, disaster response, national crisis response. If the president wants to take a vacation during this sequester - he can go up to Camp David. He too should not be taking 3 week vacations in Hawaii, trips to Vegas for a brief speech on Immigration reform that could have been done from the oval office, flights on the VC-32 for his wife to appear on Jimmy Kimmel etc. General Motors and Chrysler took heat for showing up in their Gulfstreams when they were asking for federal bailouts. How is this any different? Obama campaigning around the country about cutting spending while he is buring a few million $ flying around in Air Force One, secret service and nice hotels?

Airshows at military bases are an economic generator. There are a lot of civilian vendors that show up at these events that sell food, shirts, other items as well as the civilian contractors that help set up these airshows - such as the tents, portapotties etc that were depending on these shows that are now losing money and have to lay off workers - this is why I am so against all the wasted flying by our government officials that are hypocrites

Its not just Obama. Congress is just as much at fault. Frogface Mitch McConnell bails out early during the meeting over this so he can catch a flight - he should have missed that flight because Americans are depending on this. Several other congress people didn't even show up March 1 for the meetings. Congress, Senators, President and Presidential cabinet need to also feel the pain that the average American citizens are by taking salary reductions - at least $20K cut per salary across the board.


User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Wholly agree,

As far as I know, Congress is broken, chaotic and dysfunctional..
You have to do whats important but don't showboat hypocrisy by doing the opposite of what is promised.
Greed consumes all and it is very prevalent on Capitol Hill. Reminds me of those political comic strips of pigs in suits eating tax payer money..

I feel for the airshow community that demo teams and performance teams will be no more. We will have to rely on non-profit organizations and restoration society to take up the slack by bringing in more warbirds and civilian stuff.

The shit has really hit the fan since yesterday's release..



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6316 times:

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 11):
I feel for the airshow community that demo teams and performance teams will be no more. We will have to rely on non-profit organizations and restoration society to take up the slack by bringing in more warbirds and civilian stuff.

It won't be too long before our government in the name of "trying to protect us" takes warbirds away from us. They are already through rules and restrictions are making it harder for people to own flyable jet warbirds. I would be cool with seeing a formation of P-51s or Fifi the B-29 fly over a Stadium before a sporting event - but since they are privately owned aircraft they will not be able to fly over stadiums during large events like Superbowl, Daytona 500 because of TFRs. The next thing they will say is that these warbirds could be used as a weapon


User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6288 times:

Well, not entirely unexpected, but I think it's not the greatest of ideas, as I said in another thread.

We are in such deep trouble... it's actually kind of funny.



Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6091 times:
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Quoting checksixx (Reply 4):
each service has significant cuts

Don't get me wrong, I was not implying the other services were not suffering as well.(but I will bet it is the sharp end of their spears bearing the brunt as well)
The bloated tail is the huge, and increasing, numbers of people in all levels of govt & military( and in most countries.. certainly mine) who do little but produce "paperwork" largely to justify their own positions.. often at the expense of the organisations basic mission.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):
Air Force One is a security measure.

And one that is largely not required, the security and commander in chief mystique that has grown around the President is a self serving cult that feeds on it's own importance rather than any real need.

The president could be kept safe(and in control) without much of the AF1 "industry" that is more about look how important we are rather than any desire of an individual president to utilise resources. This is especially so on international trips where whole cities (even countries) are hugely inconvenienced because a whole bunch of security folks have to feed their empires. In fact history shows US presidents are safer abroard than when at home!
What I am saying, criticising the president because a trip to make a speech or have a vacation utilises huge resources of multiple agencies is misplaced.. direct it at the empire builders that created that myth.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2550 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6061 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 14):
The president could be kept safe(and in control) without much of the AF1 "industry" that is more about look how important we are rather than any desire of an individual president to utilise resources.

I also think so. All that security stuff mostly serves to improve the public perception of the president's cojones - "with all that security, he must have darn dangerous life!" - without actually being in danger the most time. It's like putting tigers and lions and crocodile behind massive iron bars in zoos, while we we now put the animals behind a moat and a vertical wall. The security stuff isn't that visible anymore.

Why do we have a vice president if he can take over while Obama is outside the country? No need for the communication suites.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
The Navy imposed a similar ban as the Air Force in an order announced a week or so ago.

There is no 'ban' that you speak of.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 12):
I would be cool with seeing a formation of P-51s or Fifi the B-29 fly over a Stadium before a sporting event - but since they are privately owned aircraft they will not be able to fly over stadiums during large events like Superbowl, Daytona 500 because of TFRs.

Wrong..it's entirely possible.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5808 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 16):
Wrong..it's entirely possible.

Roush was able to fly his P-51 over the Michigan 400 after he recovered from his crash at OSH. I am sure certain pilots - such as ex military like Dale Snodgrass would be allowed to fly an F-86 over a race or football game, but it is difficult to give private owners permission when you have airspace closed to private aircraft at such big events.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8768 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5765 times:

The govt strategy is to poke at the 3% of spending people really do like. The national parks, the Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, immigration enforcement. Their mission is to save the other 97% of spending that people don't care about.

Illusionists are being brought in and told to craft an image that the government may be running low on funding -- sputter! cough! It is truly deprived! Instead of being perched on a high funding peak, as is the reality.

[Edited 2013-03-03 16:02:54]

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

I'm not really trying to defend Obama on this, I'm just thinking what would GOPers have said if the same thing had happened under W. He was putting cycles on the VC-25s like crazy.

Aside from that I think the first thing that should be cut is politicians' salaries, at all levels. I mean, cut entirely, they're all wealthy so they can bear it for some time while figuring out their mess.

As an aside, the French president now has an A330 thanks to "Sarko the American", a great admirer of the Bush family, but he still gets to the airport by car, driving through Paris and then the freeway. For some reason he doesn't take an helicopter, it may have been deemed more dangerous than an inconspicuous car, since helos can't overfly Paris otherwise.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 4005 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 20):
m not really trying to defend Obama on this, I'm just thinking what would GOPers have said if the same thing had happened under W.

I was thinking the same.

One can hardly blame the president for doing some private travel, and the fact is, the man can't take a commercial flight or even hire a plane, even if he wanted to.

A few years ago, there was the VH-71 Kestrel fiasco. In a long thread about that, there was amazement about the unit price of the helicopter, but the American folks participating in that thread generally didn't question the need to buy twenty-eight large and much modified helicopters of a type new to the US armed forces, solely for White House transportation needs...I guess the replies would have been different today.

Peter 



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

From ALNAV 014/13 issued 022300Z MAR 13

Quote:
2. NAVY PLANS TO:
A. SHUT DOWN CARRIER AIR WING TWO (CVW-2) AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN APRIL. THIS WILL INITIATE THE
PREPARATIONS TO GRADUALLY STAND-DOWN FLYING AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN AT LEAST THREE ADDITIONAL AIR
WINGS WITH TWO MORE AIR WINGS BEING REDUCED TO MINIMUM SAFE FLYING LEVELS BY THE
END OF THE YEAR;

........

3. WE WILL ALSO IMMEDIATELY:
.......

C. CANCEL MARCH INTRODUCTORY FLIGHT SCREENING FOR FUTURE PILOTS/NFOS;

D. ANNOUNCE INTENT TO CANCEL BLUE ANGELS SHOWS SCHEDULED FOR APRIL 2013 [FOUR
SHOWS: MACDILL AFB (TAMPA, FL), NAS CORPUS CHRISTI TX, VIDALIA GA, MCAS BEAUFORT
SC];


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5530 times:
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Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 21):
D. ANNOUNCE INTENT TO CANCEL BLUE ANGELS SHOWS SCHEDULED FOR APRIL 2013 [FOUR
SHOWS: MACDILL AFB (TAMPA, FL), NAS CORPUS CHRISTI TX, VIDALIA GA, MCAS BEAUFORT
SC];

Does this one month stand down imply these cutbacks by the USN and USAF(and cuts in other agencies and services) will be a short term expediency just until this "sequester" thing drops of the front page?



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 16):
Wrong..it's entirely possible.

It is possible with a lot of time, effort, coordination, paperwork, planing, and money, then one must presume the powers-that-be approve the paperwork in time, which with sequestration would seem more and more unlikely. I've worked some of this coordiation for airshows before and whole forests are cut down to deal with the mounds of buracracy involved.


It is possibly to win the powerball jackpot too, but highly unlikely. A few will, but most won't. Same with getting warbirds over sporting events.

On a cool note though I did see an Me-262 flying over the NASA area in Houston a few days ago, what's up with that?



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12961 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5404 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 22):
Does this one month stand down imply these cutbacks by the USN and USAF(and cuts in other agencies and services) will be a short term expediency just until this "sequester" thing drops of the front page?

I'm thinking we'll see the rest of the season cancelled.

There's no movement on raising sequester, which will mean it's here till at least end of fiscal year in Sept.

If there's no movement then, it'll continue year by year up to 10 years.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
25 NASCARAirforce : Well we know how both sides like to point the finger at each other, but when their guy does it - they seem to ignore it. That being said and that I a
26 rfields5421 : My guess - and this is just a wild guess - 1) If this continues, the sequestration cuts will be very public and implemented to cause the most 'anger'
27 checksixx : I laughed when I read this...would you care to tell us why in the world a privately owned aircraft would be affected by sequestration??!?? We all awa
28 FlyingSicilian : Sure, I'll type slowly for you since you missed it even though it was in the original post. Said flyovers still require coordination and approval wit
29 StudeDave : Missed the race at PIR Sunday, did ya? The CAF's B-17 did the flyover. StudeDave
30 checksixx : LoL...what does typing slow have to do with it!!?? Your last sentence here is the important part for you...it really is not that complicated. Bottom
31 Post contains images bikerthai : LOL, I though the FAA is part of the Federal Government. Let see, for Sea Fair (in Seattle) to have a fly over in August, how far in advance would a
32 Post contains images TK787 : I wonder if some other parties would jump in, like private investors; to send in flying teams to fill the gap. Maybe fly bys sponsored by Canada, UAE,
33 Post contains links flyingturtle : Here, the Breitling team (sponsored by the same-called watchmaker) offered to loan aircraft and its pilots to substitute for the military Patrouille
34 FlyingSicilian : So now you ignore most of a post, and latch on to something you deem relevant for your ill-informed point. Got it. And who said it was just FAA appro
35 Aesma : I just realized the Breitling team is the former patrouille Adecco (these red Pilatus PC-7 made an impression on me as a kid, they were in numerous TV
36 Post contains images bikerthai : Right idea, wrong banker . . . Try Charles Schwab Angels bt
37 checksixx : How should I know??...that's why I said well in advance. Didn't ignore anything important....just the irrelevant parts. Never claimed to know it all.
38 FlyingSicilian : No you actually did, but if you keep saying it enough I guess you might think it is true. Keep ignoring, we all notice. Everything was relevant, you
39 checksixx : LoL...which is it? I love it!!! Why use convincing when you can use cogent...you are truly a necromancer with words! (lol...Thesaurus are great to ha
40 trex8 : Blue Angels demos are cancelled for April. No word on what happens after that. My son is at Annapolis, they got notice from sec navy office. The gradu
41 SA7700 : This thread will now be locked as some members continue to steer it into an off-topic debate, making personal attacks towards other members. Any posts
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