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When Did The Fighting Falcon Turn Into A Viper?  
User currently offlinea380heavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 267 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6118 times:

This probably has something to do with General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin but can anybody tell me definitively when and why the F-16 changed its designation?

A380Heavy


Flown in:732,733,734,738,742,752,763,772,F27,DC9,MD-11,A300,A332,ATR72,DHC-6,Bell206,C172,Auster,PA-28
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3954 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days ago) and read 6117 times:

It didn't. 'Viper' is a nickname.

Just 'Falcon' makes a much better name in my opnion, one that might have stuck.

Peter 



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2439 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days ago) and read 6108 times:

Funny. Some falcons hunt for vipers...


What Happened To The Fighting Falcon? (by TWAMD-80 Dec 29 2004 in Military Aviation & Space Flight) has some more info.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinesprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 1):
It didn't. 'Viper' is a nickname.

IIRC the f-16 came out about the same time as the series "Battlestar Galactica" came out. The fighters in the series were named "Vipers" and since the F-16 was an "electric" jet, they nicknamed it "Viper". I remember the series well, watched it every week.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2345 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

I always thought "Lawn Dart" worked well...
:D



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 926 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 5643 times:

About the same time that the Thunderbolt II became the Warthog...   

User currently offlinea380heavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 5589 times:

Quoting johns624 (Reply 5):

I really didn't think it was a dumb question, I understand there are nicknames such as Warthog, BUFF and Bone, but everyone seems to refer to the F-16 as the Viper and I've not heard the term Fighting Falcon for ages. This is the reason I asked the question.

On top of this a lot of the fighter aircraft don't seem to have widely used nicknames

F18 = Hornet with newer models being Super Hornets
F15 = Eagle/Strike Eagle
F22 = Raptor
F4 = Phantom
F14 = Tomcat



Flown in:732,733,734,738,742,752,763,772,F27,DC9,MD-11,A300,A332,ATR72,DHC-6,Bell206,C172,Auster,PA-28
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 5446 times:

Quoting a380heavy (Reply 6):
I really didn't think it was a dumb question

I'm pretty sure no one said it was a dumb question....

Quoting a380heavy (Reply 6):
On top of this a lot of the fighter aircraft don't seem to have widely used nicknames

F18 = Hornet with newer models being Super Hornets
F15 = Eagle/Strike Eagle
F22 = Raptor
F4 = Phantom
F14 = Tomcat

Those are all official designated names and not nicknames...


User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4876 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

When LM officially came out with this?.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE4yG5qjWMA

http://www.stratpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/LMF16V.jpg
http://www.stratpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/LMF16V.jpg.


Quoting a380heavy (Reply 6):
On top of this a lot of the fighter aircraft don't seem to have widely used nicknames

F18 = Hornet with newer models being Super Hornets
F15 = Eagle/Strike Eagle

Super Bug; Mud Hen ?

[Edited 2013-03-24 22:04:37]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5292 times:

Just over a year ago...F-16V....Feb 2012.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/new.../2012/february/0215aero-F-16V.html


User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

I story I heard what that during testing and before the Air Force had originally given the aircraft it's name the test pilots started calling it a viper. When it went operational the Air Force decided it should be named after a bird like the F15 so they gave it the name Falcon. However viper stuck within the fighter community.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5177 times:

What i understand is that originally GD wanted to name the F-16 simply the Falcon. But then Dassault Aviation came around and said they had already trademarked the Falcon name for their Falcon 50 Bizjet. Which is why instead the F-16 was renamed tge Fighting Falcon


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3954 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5113 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):

Maybe Dassault didn't like it, but I don't think you can copyright a common name like Falcon or Hawk for your aicraft. Note that the A-4 and Cessna 172 are both named Skyhawk.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
What i understand is that originally GD wanted to name the F-16 simply the Falcon. But then Dassault Aviation came around and said they had already trademarked the Falcon name for their Falcon 50 Bizjet. Which is why instead the F-16 was renamed tge Fighting Falcon

Most definitely not...and the manufacturer doesn't name the aircraft, the government designates it.


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2155 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

Just to add into the confusion . . .

Is the F-2 really called a Viper Zero? To a novice the F-2 looks just like an F-16.

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3954 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 14):
Is the F-2 really called a Viper Zero?

Sounds like a joke, based on the Mitsubishi A6M.

In my country the F-16 was sometimes called Bunzing (Skunk).

I read in an old magazine that it was almost named Condor (silly name for a small fighter). This is confirmed here.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php?t-50081.html

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 12):
and the manufacturer doesn't name the aircraft, the government designates it.

Doesn't the government simply take over a name chosen by the manufacturer in many cases?

Certainly, Starfighter and Starfire sound like chosen by Lockheed, for example.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4515 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
What i understand is that originally GD wanted to name the F-16 simply the Falcon. But then Dassault Aviation came around and said they had already trademarked the Falcon name for their Falcon 50 Bizjet.

Perhaps another factor in play here? Around this time the US Coast Guard brought the Falcon 20 maritime patrol version.
Since the USCG do use aircraft types that are also in the inventory of the US armed services, like C-130 Hercules, those Sea-Hawk versions to name two, there was a desire to avoid confusion within the US services?

My favourite one though was when the top brass thought that 'Excalibur' would be a suitably imposing name for the B-1 bomber, until someone mentioned that was also the name of a popular brand of condom in the US.
(For those who minds work in a certain way maybe 'Bone' was backhanded reference to the original naming intention? That brand name is not used in the UK, one of the original ideas for naming the BAC Lightning was also Excalibur, to repeat the potential faux pas with the B-1 a RAF aircraft would have to be called the 'Durex').


User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 16):
Perhaps another factor in play here? Around this time the US Coast Guard brought the Falcon 20 maritime patrol version.
Since the USCG do use aircraft types that are also in the inventory of the US armed services, like C-130 Hercules, those Sea-Hawk versions to name two, there was a desire to avoid confusion within the US services?

Not very likely.
The F-16 Fighting Falcon name dates back to Early 1975, The HU-25 Guardian didn't come into the USCG invintory until 1983 and "Falcon" was never an offical name attached to it.
The HC-130H And J are refered to Hercules/Super Hurcules. Sometimes Combat King is inproperly used due to it being the config as the USAF bird sans arial-refueling kit.
HH-60's are refered too as Jayhawk
(HH) MH-65 Dolphin uses the English spelling of it's french sister.



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 17):
The F-16 Fighting Falcon name dates back to Early 1975, The HU-25 Guardian didn't come into the USCG invintory until 1983 and "Falcon" was never an offical name attached to it.

Quite possibly, though IIRC the USCG Falcons were ordered in 1979.
I also recall adverts by GD, in Flight International, on leaflets doled out on the stands at Farnborough, which called the F-16 the Fighting Falcon, that of course does not mean it was an official designation used by the USAF.


User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4876 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4180 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 9):
Just over a year ago...F-16V....Feb 2012.

Yes...it was 'Super' (cameo appearance by Desert Falcon) until LockMart turned it to menacing 'Viper'...      ...

.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5298/5558739700_9df6f55993_z.jpg


.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5197/5859860518_2a7843bf0a_z.jpg

[Edited 2013-03-29 17:51:38]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 12):
but I don't think you can copyright a common name like Falcon or Hawk for your aicraft. Note that the A-4 and Cessna 172 are both named Skyhawk.

I don't see any reason it could not be protected as intellectual property - I believe it would be a Registered Trademark though.

After all Ford certainly owns all rights to the Mustang name for automobiles, GM for Impala, etc.

Skyhawk is a registered trademark of Cessna and Falcon is a registered trademark of Dassualt Falcon Corporation of New Jersey.

I don't know if Douglas tried to trademark Skyhawk, or that was a military assigned name staying with the sequence of Sky___ aircraft. It was produced before the C-172 was introduced. The two companies might have decided to share the name.

There was a "Falcon" in the US military before - a Curtiss biplane from the 20s with one version the A-3 Falcon through A-6 Falcon. The Navy version was the F8C-4 Falcon.

The XP-13 Viper was also a biplane - only one delivered for testing.

There was also the AIM-4 Falcon missile used on F-4s in the Vietnam era.

Personally I believe the 'Fighting Falcon' was used to hilight the new aircraft and to avoid confusion with commercial biz jets and past military aircraft with the Falcon name.

The USAF probably could have insisted Falcon as the name, but Fighting Falcon sounds 'more military'.


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2951 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4129 times:

I had heard the name was voted on, and based on the USAFA's mascot. The Academy still uses Falcon for all its teams.


The last of the famous international playboys
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