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KC-135 Crash In Kyrgyzstan  
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8988 posts, RR: 75
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

News reports in of a KC-135 breaking up in flight after takeoff

"US tanker aircraft KC-135 lost contact with ground control immediately after take-off - Kyrgyz Ministry of Emergencies. Bishkek. KC-135 Tanker Aircraft from the Transit Center at Manas lost contact with the Center immediately after take-off, according to preliminary reports received by the Kyrgyz Ministry of Emergencies."

Only reports in Russian at this stage. http://kg.akipress.org/news:574036

BBC has now picked up the story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22397266
http://inserbia.info/news/2013/05/ky...hed-near-the-kyrgyz-kazakh-border/
http://www.boston.com/news/world/eur.../viBOhQFueXWqDCkOY0Xs3I/story.html

From the AFP wires :

""According to my information, the plane broke up into three pieces. Information on the dead or wounded is being clarified. All the rescue services have gone to the scene," the ministry's press secretary Abdisharip Bekilov said."

"The emergency situations ministry said that preliminary information was that a KC-135 Stratotanker plane lost contact with the base as soon as it took off.

Witnesses told the Kyrgyz AKIPress news agency that they heard a boom and then an explosion and that the plane was continuing to burn."

Edit to add links

[Edited 2013-05-03 03:45:00]


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
152 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Jeez.

RIP to the crew, assuming they perished, which sounds likely just from what is known now...



Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8988 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

This is the KC-135R being reported in Russian media as the missing aircraft, I believe the aircraft was with the 22nd ARW based at McConnell AFB, Kansas.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthew C. Lyons



source : http://www.kabar.kg/kyr/inced/full/43348



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Sad news. My sympathies to the families.


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Yahoo is reporting an apparent parachute jump for the tanker prior to the "explosion".

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/plane-us-ai...kyrgyzstan-ministry-093048852.html

If this is true, then some or all of the crew might have bailed out. Bail out on the KC-135 is through the crew entry chute near the nose landing gear. It also means the crew might have possible radioed they were bailing out, and possible the reason why.

If there was an inflight explosion, the most likely reason could be a fire within the tanker, or even possibly the cargo, if it was carrying any cargo. If a bail out did happen, that would indicate there was only the crew aboard and no passengers.

I am hoping the crew did bail out before the crash. I also know that most aircraft crash witnesses report an inflight break-up and/or explosion, which later turn out to be not true. This does not mean anyone is lying, they just report what they believe they have seen.

I am hoping the crew will be found alive and with not to many injuries. If the crew did not have time to attach the survival seat kit to their parachute harnesses, that is still not a problem in finding the crew. USAF parachutes are equipped with an emergency beacon that begins transmitting as soon as the parachute opens, and continues to transmit until it is manually turned off or the battery dies.


User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 412 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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May God be with their families and friends!

KC-135 Crash In Kyrgyzstan (by zeke May 3 2013 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=287&p=493663

http://rss.rt.com/news/us-plane-crashes-kyrgyzstan-771/

     

VERY SADLY...
135Mech


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8988 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Photos of the missing airframe (from http://kg.akipress.org/news:574074)

http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/g/o/gogiman/135e9c3899712386b7d6d6b68a6ac72a.jpg


Photos of the crash area

http://kg.akipress.org/news:574061

Photos of the aircraft pieces

http://kg.akipress.org/news:574074

Video of the crash area

http://kg.akipress.org/news:574076



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

KC-135s rarely carry parachutes unless they're doing a functional checkflight, like after the plane's been put back together after a major PDM/depot trip. For those of you who don't know how it works, there is an escape spoiler that is extended with an air bottle and it is supposed to block the slipstream in front of the crew entry hatch. I don't think it's really a viable option though, as you'd likely end up going into the #2 engine, hitting the wing, or richocheting across the fuselage. The escape spoiler emergency air bottle is not serviced on the aircraft unless parachutes are going to be carried, again I have never seen them onboard.

Real shame to lose a KC-135 like this, I am sure the crew did their best to save the plane. The spooky thing is, if this is the plane that went down, I worked on this plane a lot at Al Udeid last year. I remember the tail number (8877) very well because it had a lot of maintenance issues and we were always working on it.


User currently offlinevenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):

Hey Boom, they took off the parachutes years ago to save weight and only service the bailout chute spoiler only when they do test flights. Still have some friends who are mx and ops and nobody is talking. Been a tough week the NAC bird was also one I have taken care of and knew the crew also. I wonder if turbulance coming off the Tien Shen Mtns had anything to do with this.



I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlinecargotanker From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Yahoo is reporting an apparent parachute jump for the tanker prior to the "explosion".

So much of that Yahoo story is odd, (tires are still on fire, schoolchildren filmed it) but an inflight bailout would be remarkable. Here's hoping... Other sites are saying five crew, no survivors.


User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 412 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Quoting venus6971 (Reply 8):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):


Hey Boom, they took off the parachutes years ago to save weight and only service the bailout chute spoiler only when they do test flights. Still have some friends who are mx and ops and nobody is talking. Been a tough week the NAC bird was also one I have taken care of and knew the crew also. I wonder if turbulance coming off the Tien Shen Mtns had anything to do with this.

Last I knew (when I was still working them) the Parachutes were installed for any overwater missions and deployments, but yes, at homestation they are removed for weight etc. Also, the escape bottles are not kept up to the service limit anymore. Maybe this will put that all back into use?

135Mech


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8988 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting cargotanker (Reply 9):
tires are still on fire

That is visible in the photos




We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinerc135x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

From the photos, which were taken shortly after the crash, it does not appear that weather was a factor.

Quoting venus6971 (Reply 8):
I wonder if turbulance coming off the Tien Shen Mtns had anything to do with this.

Good question, but the Tien Shen Mountains abut the Chinese border, and the airplane would have to have been well off course to stray that close to them to encounter CAT.

I tend to discount the report of parachutes. They are not worn, but are stowed (beginning in the 1990s their primary use is to enable the boomer to check overwing and rear hatches during flight). The amount of time it would take for someone to unbuckle from a seat, move to the cargo cabin, collect and don the parachute (assuming they knew where it was and how to put it on), move back to the cockpit, pop the spoiler (again, assuming they knew how), and egress is not consistent with an uncontrolled bail out.

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 7):
you'd likely end up going into the #2 engine, hitting the wing, or richocheting across the fuselage. The escape spoiler emergency air bottle is not serviced on the aircraft unless parachutes are going to be carried, again I have never seen them onboard.

Before they took the parachutes out of the RC-135 we always morbidly joked that the lowest ranking person would bail out first because their body would clean off most of the MUCEL antennas and all the other crap under the fuselage, then the rest of the crew could bail out safely.

My daughter lives in Kyrgyzstan, and will continue to send updates and translations of Russian and Kyrgyz articles (for those of us who don't read those languages).


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Prior to today, there was at least two successful bailouts from the KC-135. One during flight testing back in 1956, there is a video of this somewhere, and the second one where a Boom Operator bailed out (without approval by the pilot) when he was thinking the airplane would crash.

AIUSI, parachutes are still used today on the KC-135 during combat missions in case of a MANPAD attack.

The way the crew entry chute bail-out system worked (normally the pilot would manually depressurize the airplane by ejecting a fuselage plug in the cargo compartment, he has a "T" handle on his instrument panel) and the Boom Operator would activate the chute by pulling down a handle bar over the chute. This would deploy the spoiler, which extended about 4' below the entry chute. As the spoiler deployed, it would kick the entry chute door off its hinges into the slipstream and fall away. As long as the airspeed was above about 150 KIAS the crew members would fall away from the airplane in about a 30 to 45 degree angle (depending on airspeed) and clear the airplane, going under it.


User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 2):
This is the KC-135R being reported in Russian media as the missing aircraft, I believe the aircraft was with the 22nd ARW based at McConnell AFB, Kansas.

Pictures on Twitter clearly show "ONNELL" on the tail so that would be consistent with it being a McConnell aircraft.


User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 412 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Quoting rc135x (Reply 12):
My daughter lives in Kyrgyzstan, and will continue to send updates and translations of Russian and Kyrgyz articles (for those of us who don't read those languages).

Thank you for all of your inputs! This just sucks!

135Mech


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6582 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 13):
As long as the airspeed was above about 150 KIAS the crew members would fall away from the airplane in about a 30 to 45 degree angle (depending on airspeed) and clear the airplane, going under it.

Why would a higher airspeed be better, attitude of the airplane ? I'm a skydiver and pilots slow down before we jump.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 412 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
Why would a higher airspeed be better, attitude of the airplane ? I'm a skydiver and pilots slow down before we jump.

When you jump (out of the turbo prop planes for parachting), one reason your pilot slows down is so that your body can get clear of the plane, and not have severe winds catching you before the actual dropping. The KC-135's with their 35 degree swept wing, slowing to 150KIAS is 'slow' for them, any (significantly) slower and they would not sustain their needed lift. Much faster than the 150KIAS and you would risk going to fast for the person to drop far enough, fast enough, to clear the landing gear (if extended), inboard flaps (to include the fillet flap), and wign to body fairing.

Hope this answers your question.

Regards,
135Mech


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
Why would a higher airspeed be better, attitude of the airplane ? I'm a skydiver and pilots slow down before we jump.

In flight, depending on the gross weight, the KC-135 cannot slow to below 150 KIAS, or so. Typical landing speeds are around 140 KIAS.

The idea is to get away from the airplane as quickly as possible. The bail out procedure (IIRC) was to pull the green apple to give you oxygen, then hang by your arms on the bar that deployed the spoiler, then pull your knees up to your chest and upon letting go you brought your arms across your chest and grab the harness on the opposite side from your arm. This put you into a sort of 'ball' as you fell from the airplane and you would roll due to the slipstream. As soon as you were clear of the airplane, you pulled the other 'apple' to start the auto chute deployment, once you got down to 14,000', or if below 14,000' pull the "T" handle (sometimes it was a "D" ring) to deploy your chute.

IIRC, we were not to try to position ourselves like a skydiver, unless we were trained for that. Instead we assumed an "attention" position until chute deployment. This may cause some spinning, but it should not be enough to get tangled in the raisers and lines during deployment.

I am still hoping for the crew, even though I know it looks bad.

Farewell 63-8877, old friend.


User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 32767 times:

It's so surreal to know that the plane I was working just a few months ago is now gone under such circumstances.

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
This put you into a sort of 'ball' as you fell from the airplane

In September 1973 my squadron had a crew bail out of an EA-3B Skywarrior (similar to the USAF RB-66). Fuel starvation after getting lost between Guam and Subic.

The aircraft has a door which drops down behind the nose gear. They slid down the ramp into the aircraft slipstream.

All five people were knocked silly and woke up in their chutes before landing. All five had their face shields broken and two guys had parts of the face shield impeded in the front of their boots. They all has strained hip joints.

That bailout was setup at 155 kts at 10,000 ft with the plane on autopilot.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting 135mech (Reply 17):
Much faster than the 150KIAS and you would risk going to fast for the person to drop far enough, fast enough, to clear the landing gear (if extended), inboard flaps (to include the fillet flap), and wign to body fairing.

The 'secondary' bail-out exit is the aft hatch. You are not suppose to bail out through the crew entry chute if gear, flaps, or Boom are extended.


User currently onlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2355 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

What does this suggest?

Until now we've debated a possible escape from the KC-135, and one would need stable flight (and therefore, a reasonably intact airplane) to use an bailout chute.


http://static.akipress.org/127/.storage/news/images/2013May/8845b86c69c29b40422288f80e3890ae.jpg

My not-very-educated guess is a inflight breakup...  


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinerc135x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 22):
What does this suggest?

Two widely separated impact points may well mean something like in-flight fuselage failure form whatever cause at the wing junction causing two large sections of the airframe to come down far apart. As both are burning, both likely would have had a lot of fuel, perhaps ruling out separation at the empennage. Or perhaps a wing broke off and the remainder spun in nearby. Either way it appears to have happened at a low altitude given the close proximity of the two major impact sites.

Edit: correct typographic error

[Edited 2013-05-03 16:21:19]

User currently offlineTankereng From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Heard about it this morning when I got to work. Very tragic.

From the pictures it looked like the gear were retracted. It does look like it could be an inflight breakup. I wonder if one of the terminal fittings failed.

Never got to see 8877 in person at Tinker. Last PDM was at San Antonio.


25 KC135Hydraulics : I saw a picture on Fox News today that showed the vertical stabilizer lying on the ground by itself, missing a rudder, but with a small portion of att
26 zeke : Initial reports were the aircraft broke up into 3 pieces in flight with an explosion. The picture in reply 22 would indicate 2 impact locations, and
27 Post contains links KC135Hydraulics : Here is a link to the story on Fox News, the photo should be available there: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/05...hes-in-kyrgyzstan/?test=latestnew
28 Gonzalo : What a horrible week for aviators... I apologize for being so pessimistic, but I think there is enough evidence of a sudden in-flight break up and, th
29 awacsooner : Sounds like the crew was a SKA crew...
30 135mech : Wow! This just keeps getting worse! Thank you all for being so awesome with you comments and respects for our fallen Airmen! And, yes, I did forget to
31 moose135 : Kyrgyz officials announced that the remains of two crew members have been found. RIP to my fellow tanker buddies.
32 windy95 : There have been three previous inflight explosions on the KC-135 plus a fourth on the ground that I can remember but the last was some twenty years ag
33 zanl188 : Pix I have seen indicate seperate impact points for at least two engines (cratered), vert stab, the boom, and a wing section. Catastrophic whatever it
34 venus6971 : If it was a inflight explosion such as a ACM shelling or a AR pump or center wing boost pump letting go the USAF will be looking hard at all safety of
35 windy95 : The 135's also stopped exploding inflight after they installed the low pressure lights for the fwd and aft body boost pumps after the last one at Lori
36 rc135x : KC-135A 58-0031 19 Mar 82 KC-135A 60-0330 13 Feb 87 KC-135E 57-1481 20 Sep 89 KC-135A 56-3592 4 Oct 89 KC-135R 57-1470 10 Dec 93 Cause of loss: overh
37 windy95 : The R model in 1993 was at Mitchell Field and it was caused by the Center tank pump and the E model at Eielsen was the APU. There have been four infli
38 KC135TopBoom : That could be because of a lot of reasons from structural failure, MANPAD or other anti-aircraft system, to a fuel explosion of some type, to extreme
39 windy95 : I never tied the engines to the pump related accidents. I was just stating that once they had been re-engined to the R model that the accident rate h
40 135mech : I have had an ACM shell out in flight, the housing/casing of the impeller is 'overbuilt' to contain any failures, and after digging out the impeller p
41 KC135Hydraulics : I've seen one shell out during an engine start because one of the valves that controls bleed air going to it was stuck open. The casing of it was com
42 fsnuffer : I am showing my age here, but with a crew of three did they get rid of the navigator position? If so, when? To the crew, RIP
43 135mech : Yes sir they did. In the late 90's we installed the upgraded PACER-CRAG 'glass cockpit' and that eliminated the 'Navigators'. Dual GPS, no more INS/DN
44 KC135TopBoom : The Alaska ANG KC-135E ground explosion happened just after taxi in from a mission. The two Instructor Boom Operators were killed in the explosion as
45 KC135R : It has been about 5 years since I have touched a KC-135, but unless something has changed, the A/R pumps were replaced/upgraded a few years back and
46 KC135TopBoom : Actually, it only applies to 5 tanks, the 4 main wing tanks and the center wing tank. IIRC both reserve tanks and the upper deck tank were gravity fl
47 KC135R : Yes, good point - I was unintentionally misleading by counting all the tanks that do not have AR pumps while simultaneously forgetting to exclude the
48 Post contains images aaron747 : Really sobering image here of the v-stab on its side in pretty good condition, with the rudder missing in its entirety as previously stated. The fin a
49 KC135Hydraulics : There was a TCTO some years back as previously stated that changed the way the pump is lubricated. It is now lubricated with hydraulic fluid instead o
50 rc135x : Yes. I was the SAC SOF on the ramp and watched this happened. Aside from rescue and fire control efforts, we had to move several other KC-135s adjace
51 windy95 : Well I think we have it all covered between us. I think for the Alaska R model accident I was thinking about the E model ground fire we had at Pease w
52 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : The Alaska incident was an "E" model. I was at Pease AFB when the NHANG "E" model caught fire. The airplane had no power on it, and maintenance was in
53 KC135TopBoom : As I understand it, the third crew member still has not been located yet. The nose section of the tanker has not been found, also. This may indicate t
54 awacsooner : Any word if they've got the CVR?
55 KC135TopBoom : Not that I have heard. Most KC-135 did not originally have CVRs, a few did, and none were built with an FDR. However they were equipped with both begi
56 KC135Hydraulics : I'm almost certain that all R-model 135s have a digital CVR and FDR installed. I know this because a CVR/FDR fail light prior to takeoff is a redball
57 rc135x : Another possibility (assuming the report of 5 SOB) is that the nose section with the AC, CP, and BO has yet to be found and the cargo compartment wit
58 solarflyer22 : I hope this isnt due to age of the frame. Lord knows these things have been flying forever.
59 rc135x : Yes. Speculatively, if the AIB determines that a wing cracked off at the root due to spar failure from fatigue or corrosion, for example, or some oth
60 cjg225 : That would be very bad, to say the least. EDIT: I had forgotten that there was a "new" winner of the KC-X program, so disregard what I put here.[Edit
61 titanmiller : FYI, there is no aircrew restriction on pumping the body tanks down to 0.0 on the gage. All of the current fleet have both an FDR and CVR.
62 KC135TopBoom : Good point. There are not any accurate news reports as to how many SOBs were aboard. I have seen reports of 3, 5, or 7 aboard. I guess the one report
63 Post contains links windy95 : According to the DOD three had been on board. Names in the article. http://www.kake.com/home/mobile/Airm...ntified--206193491.html?mobile=yes http://w
64 135mech : Yes, CVR's are now on the birds, it was sometime between block 30 and block 40 upgrades. They don't always work, but the FDR's were mandated/required
65 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : I am happy the crew has been found. I am sad they did not survive. Apparently, the accident investigation team is looking at the weather in the area a
66 KC135Hydraulics : There isn't, that I am aware, but I have had some debriefs about the low pressure lights coming on for the A/R pumps operating in tanks with very low
67 Post contains links rfields5421 : A DOD press release I received today listed three crew members as killed. Two 27 year old Captains as the pilots and a 30 year old Tech Sargent. They
68 cargotanker : Coupled with what I have read from various sources that the plane was noticed by people on the ground before it separated in mid-air (some said it wa
69 KC135TopBoom : That is what I speculated, too. cargotanker, the speculation the tanker may have been at, or around 10,000' makes sense, too. As you know the crew do
70 cargotanker : So, what kind of explosion on a tanker, or any aircraft, would separate into distinct areas: a wing, the vertical stab, the cockpit/forward section,
71 KC135TopBoom : Weather could be a factor in the accident. The only thing I can think of to blow up a KC-135 into 3 sections, as reported by witnesses would be a prob
72 rc135x : The in-flight fire theory is certainly plausible. Given the short flight timeline, the fire would have erupted sometime after takeoff during the clim
73 KC135Hydraulics : You are absolutely correct. The two center wing fuel pumps, also known as override pumps, produce more pressure than the wing tank pumps and can "ove
74 windy95 : Does anyone know if the crew was within radio range of anyone or still under any kind of ATC control at this point. Nothing has been mentioned in any
75 bikerthai : You can probably take the vertical stab and the boom out of the original break-up equation for now. Reason being the vertical, and sometimes the hori
76 KC135TopBoom : Yes, there are after take-off checks done in the Boom Pod, so yes, the BO would have checked off interphone. They should have been well within VHF an
77 rc135x : Good point. I was thinking that if time precluded a bail out then just get it on the ground, not necessarily a landing strip but any flat open area.
78 135mech : I have a question, yes the book calls for gear down, BUT... it you were to land on grass in that area, wouldn't a gear up belly landing be better for
79 rc135x : The gear will help cushion the impact and begin to slow the airplane. At this point the airplane is a write off anyway, so saving the crew is the pri
80 135mech : Good to know, thanks! Agreed too, if the incident wasn't what these 3 went through, then it would be take all aspects into account and end result hel
81 bikerthai : Yeah but . . . Sure you're not worried about losing the gears, but in doing so, you are worried about the gear ripping off more important structure o
82 135mech : Hello BT, The gear also have shear pins/points on them, so if it got that rough they would "in design" break off directly behind where they currently
83 rc135x : Remember the assumption here is that the airplane is already a write-off prior to crash landing. Any damage caused by the gear is irrelevant. Gear up
84 KC135TopBoom : Normally the engines will not break off the airplane once the gear has sheared away, until the airplane fuselage changes heading but still (generally
85 Post contains links windy95 : A little spat is now going on over the accident investigation. The FDR/CVR's might be sent to Russia to be read. http://www.eurasianet.org/node/66935
86 bikerthai : Oops, I would assume that there are some sensitive com gear on the aircraft. If the airplane broke up fast, I would assume that they do not have time
87 cjg225 : That sounds like something a little child would do...
88 Post contains links cargotanker : Weather might be a factor. According to the article below the crew requested to deviate from thunderstorms. Also of note is that the crew had radio co
89 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : Here are pictures of some of the wreckage, mostly of the center wing section, which ended up in a drainage ditch. There are also pictures of 3 of the
90 Post contains links zeke : I see no reason for the "spat", to me they are treating the accident the same as any other accident they would look in Kyrgyzstan. The article states
91 Post contains images SSTeve : They're worried about getting the data from both in an expedient manner?
92 Post contains links eksath : Folks, Normally, I am hesitant about commercial plugging however I think this is a good cause and worthy endeavor. It was brought to my attention firs
93 rfields5421 : Maybe I'm being simplistic by ICAO is the International Civil Aeronautical Organization. This was a military aircraft operated under military control
94 KC135TopBoom : Correct. Shell-77 was a military aircraft on a combat mission when the accident happened. The entire wreckage site, responsibility for the accident i
95 Post contains links LTC8K6 : http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Re...DP_3_KYRGYZSTAN-US-PLANE-CRASH.JPG High res pic of tail and boom motor mentioned earlier.
96 KC135Hydraulics : Thought you guys might want a clarification. That is most definitely not the boom hoist unit. The hoist unit is painted black and would have two hydr
97 LTC8K6 : Thanks, I didn't know what it was other than "winch-looking part"...
98 135mech : Thank you for the link! Ordered mine too! May the families find peace in time! 135Mech
99 zeke : While the NTSB have a specific mandate not to investigate military accidents, that is not universal. Many countries have a single agency for such inv
100 KC135TopBoom : You could be right, the US will not take over the crash site. Even if there is no agreement on who investigates a US aircraft crash in Kyrgyzstan, the
101 zeke : No doubt, I have not seen anything to suggest they are removing classified material, if any actually survived the fire. I would assume that they woul
102 KC135Hydraulics : The coupler is installed inside the fuselage, cargo compartment, right hand side just above the little galley. There are of course two HF antennas.. o
103 KC135TopBoom : The USAF would not have released the 3 names of the crew unless they confirmed any or all of the crew did not survive. If they thought anyone may hav
104 moriarty : I'd say there's three impact locations on that picture. One to the left, two on the right side, the far most a fire ball. Nevertheless, may the crew
105 135mech : Howdy! There are now 2 HF antennas/couplers on each KC-135R/T's, the original and still used is in the top of the tail and still uses the distinct 70
106 KC135Hydraulics : I must be confused. I thought the coupler was used to tie in multiple HF radios so they can work together. It was my understanding that the wire and p
107 135mech : You are correct on the "coupling" aspect of it, but, there's another (the original) large black box in the top of the tail attached to that probe. Th
108 135mech : So, has anyone seen any updates on this yet? 135Mech
109 eksath : No update on my radar. But, the memorial T-shirt arrived last week. Hope yours did too. Eksath
110 KC135TopBoom : I doubt we will hear anything until the official accident report is released. That could take up to a year, or more. The rumors I have heard indicate
111 135mech : Thanks, mine arrived 2 days ago... was happy and sad at the same time! Thanks, and yeah, just don't like that these things (esp military) take soooo
112 KC135Hydraulics : Have there been any updates on the possible causes of the crash? I think I read somewhere in another thread the possibility of overuse of the rudder i
113 cargotanker : The AF Safety report has been released and you might be able to view it at your wing safety office if you have a good reason. I'm not sure when the p
114 venus6971 : Anything us mechanics need to look at more thoroughly?
115 windy95 : From what I understand, no. It is for the flight crew.
116 windy95 : Resetting the Rudder PCU CB in flight while having the crew put pressure on the rudder pedal keeping the aircraft straight manually is not a good ide
117 windy95 : For those who have not heard the FCIF was out last month which gave an idea as to what happened. Then the SIB was released about three weaks ago and t
118 KC135TopBoom : I agree with cargotanker, this was a very unique kind of accident.[Edited 2013-08-10 16:22:02]
119 135mech : Howdy, Haven't been on in a bit, and with our B-1 going down yesterday, thought I'd see what's new on here. Does anyone have the links to these report
120 KC135Hydraulics : Well I just got the spiel! I'll summarize this very briefly as the classification of the briefing I received was vague. There was an encounter with a
121 cjg225 : Yuck. Thanks for the information. Hopefully we'll see something public eventually.
122 135mech : Hi, thanks for the update! Sad! 135Mech
123 rc135x : I appreciate your sensitivity to releasing discretionary information. I am a little mystified as to why the results of this accident have not been mo
124 cargotanker : I also have questions about why it has taken so long. For the 2010 C-17 crash in Alaska, the accident occurred on 28 July 2010 and the public release
125 rfields5421 : The data learned from that investigation revealed what happened conclusively and was very easy to develop from the various sources. This crash might
126 zanl188 : USAF aircrew are already being briefed on the investigations conclusions - the safety end of the investigation has been wrapped up. I suspect the leg
127 KC135Hydraulics : What's eery for me is that my base's QA chief was deployed to Manas during this event. He had breakfast with the incident crew that day it happened (j
128 checksixx : Well having sat in a 117 that went down, and then enduring the subsequent questioning, I can say they certainly cover all the bases prior to releasing
129 KC135TopBoom : If an accident cause is beginning to appear to be 'pilot error', the USAF AIB brings in a lot of legal people. The possibility of the surviving famil
130 KochamLOT : The KC-135 has proven lately and often to have issues with its PCU or Rudder Power Control Unit. Investigation needs to take place into this matter an
131 AWACSooner : You're telling me...I took gas from this jet at least four times in Afghanistan over the past few years.
132 KC135Hydraulics : As a person who changes PCUs, I must say that this has not been my observation. Prior to the Shell-77 crash I *maybe* touched 2 PCUs a year. Immediat
133 kanban : reminds me of a study where some equipment was put into two maintenance routines.. one group got none, the other maintained by policies, procedures a
134 KC135Hydraulics : I have a good example of that. Every ISO (2 year interval) there is a carded item to operate the engine hydraulic shutoff valves with the T-handle an
135 cjg225 : As KC135 says above, though, you can't just assume something will continue to work if you're not periodically checking it, especially if it is a rare
136 kanban : Hydraulics are especially vulnerable, have seen cases where a pinched O-ring put a piece of material a little bigger than a head of a pin into the flu
137 KC135TopBoom : There is no wide spread problems with the PCU. But that is not to say one individual PCU cannot have a problem. I believe the PCU was a contributing
138 KochamLOT : The aircrew that fly the aircraft do not tell MX how to fix the problem. That is exactly right. Mx has stated that there is a new manufacturer for th
139 Post contains links KochamLOT : That is correct. An example I found quite interesting: http://www.aerohabitat.eu/uploads/me...Remembering_flight_427__1.5MB_.pdf I would agree that i
140 KC135Hydraulics : Kocham, I am not sure of your credentials so if I am telling you something you already know, forgive. You're right, pilots don't tell us how to fix th
141 Post contains links windy95 : The long awaited announcement. Full details to be released Monday. The Air aforc conclusion was that it was a preventable accident. http://krem.mlnwap
142 Post contains links buckeyetech : So the report was released. This raises more questions than it does answers. I hope they produce a computer generated video of what happened as a visu
143 windy95 : Like?
144 KC135Hydraulics : I would like to see the report and find out precisely what induced the dutch roll to begin with. Was it a failure of the series yaw damper?
145 rc135x : From the news release: A bent lock lever in the power control unit caused the initial slow, erratic drifting, which soon grew into a dangerous "Dutch
146 buckeyetech : I guess the biggest question I have is, what initially caused the crab? Was it the autopilot computer, or the wake of another aircraft? What is the p
147 rc135x : A bent component on the rudder power control unit (PCU) caused abnormalities in rudder operations for 14 missions prior to the crash. On the day of t
148 KC135Hydraulics : I'll have to get into my TOs but I am wondering if it was the tab lockout that was bent. That's the only lockout I'm familiar with on the PCU. I'll ta
149 KC135TopBoom : Back in my KC-135A/Q days, we did not have a yaw damper on the airplane. The autopilot had a rudder axis, and we had the powered rudder (added as par
150 Post contains links kochamLOT : This can be confirmed by someone else, but supposedly, the primary means of addressing Dutch Roll is engaging the SYD - series yaw damper. The SYD re
151 STOOBIE : For the Aero/Docks guys, check your tab and trim control rods. We had balooning of the metal causing a fissure to open up the trim contol rod. Water s
152 Kc135hydraulics : It's coincidental that you mention that. We have a plane in ISO right now with a write-up for some hardware out of sorts on the PCU. I'll probably be
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