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Future USAF/USN Airfields Closed Due To Brac  
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7747 times:

There are rumors of a another round of Base Realignment and Closure Committee, BRAC, possibly in 2015. What are some possible Air Force Base/Naval Air Station closings? I think the Marine Corps small size will protect their MCAS from closure.

So far I've read Scott AFB is a possibility for closure, seems like a good candidate with not much of a flying mission. The Transportation Command and Air Mobility Command Headquarters could easily be located to someplace like Joint Base McGuire/DIx/Lakehurst.

As for the Navy the committee last time tried to include Oceana due to sprawl encroaching on the facility. With the even louder F-35s coming aboard I think the Navy's East Coast Fighter base is going to get relocated.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7664 times:

As far as Air Force Bases, there are a TON that could see the axe, but here are my suggestions:
1. Malmstrom in Montana and FE Warren in Wyoming are two from AFSPC that could be consolidated into one (yes, even with the missiles)
2. No one in the USAF would cry too much if they closed Cannon, Minot or Ellsworth either.
3. Consolidate Goodfellow's training stuff into Sheppard or Lackland...then shut it down.
4. One of the UPT bases...either Laughlin, Vance or Columbus can be consolidated into the other two (and Sheppard).
5. MOVE NAV SCHOOL BACK TO RANDOLPH!!!
6. Pick between one...Dover or McGuire. Consolidate one to the other (and the remainder to Andrews).
7. Altus needs to go...but Tinker has no more room. How bout moving stuff from Altus to Dyess...or even McConnell?
8. Buh bye Moody...move em to Tyndall/Eglin/Hurlburt Field....Robbins is too full.
9. Consolidate USAFE...sorry, but the Cold War is OVER!!! There should be one transit hub in Ramstein...one base in either the UK...keep Lajes for the mid-Atlantic stopover, and that's it! We're spending too much money on somewhere we really don't need to be anymore.
10. Move some of these USAFE assets to PACAF...cause we all know what's gonna happen out there soon.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2690 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

All USAFE and PACAF assets need to be brought back home. Scott and Patrick are two that come to mind in CONUS.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

Forgot about Patrick...yah, close that puppy down too. We can handle our space needs from Vandy.

As far as PACAF, not while China and NorK are still viable threats.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7502 times:

As with past BRACs, there will be a political element in the decision.

Scott and Dover will not be considered for closure by this administration, for obvious reasons. One is in IL the other in DE home states of the current POTUS and VPOTUS.

Altus may very well be closed, and assets (KC-135s and C-17s) sent to reopen Castle AFB.........in California.


User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7480 times:

Wouldn't closing Scott necessitate the movement of TRANSCOM, anyway? I would think that uprooting such a critical function would be difficult.


Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlinedahawaiian From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7479 times:

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
I think the Marine Corps small size will protect their MCAS from closure.

I'm not so sure about that. One article I read says MCAS Cherry Point is slated to receive only three F-35 squadrons while another puts the number at six. The base will also be losing the four EA-6B squadrons in the coming years. That combined with the growing emphasis on the Pacific could make MCAS Cherry Point vulnerable to closure.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Cherry Point could be the replacement for NAS Oceana.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7470 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Altus may very well be closed, and assets (KC-135s and C-17s) sent to reopen Castle AFB.........in California.

Why re-open Castle?


User currently offlinedahawaiian From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7433 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Cherry Point could be the replacement for NAS Oceana.

I have heard this before, and it reinforces my belief that Cherry Point's days as a MCAS could be numbered either through realignment or closure. How workable is this solution?
With regard to Oceana, has anyone heard about placing F-35C squadrons there? If it turns out that the F-35C is not in Oceana's future, it will reinforce the argument for its closure.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 1):
2. No one in the USAF would cry too much if they closed Cannon, Minot or Ellsworth either.

Closing Minot and Ellsworth will happen only if all B-52s are consolidated to Barksdale, and all B-1s to Dyess. It makes no sense to move the planes to another base. I would think closing Grand Forks and moving their stuff to Minot is a better option.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 1):
6. Pick between one...Dover or McGuire. Consolidate one to the other (and the remainder to Andrews).

Makes a lot of sense, and given the total investment - dropping Dover for the MDL base is a better option. But it ain't gonna happen.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 1):
7. Altus needs to go...but Tinker has no more room. How bout moving stuff from Altus to Dyess...or even McConnell?

If Ellsworth closes and everything goes to Dyess, then Altus can't go there. McConnell and Altus could be consolidated - and I think Altus would be a better location.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 3):
Forgot about Patrick...yah, close that puppy down too.

Possible, but politically unlikely.

Quoting dahawaiian (Reply 6):
That combined with the growing emphasis on the Pacific could make MCAS Cherry Point vulnerable to closure.

Cherry Point, New River and Beaufort - one of them will likely go.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Cherry Point could be the replacement for NAS Oceana.

That would be an option. The move of the Navy out of Miramar to Lemoore supports the move out of Oceana. The Navy would rather have Pax River if it was a choice between Oceana and Pax River.

Some other possibilities

Between MCAS Yuma and MCAS Miramar - one could go - I think mission wise it would be Yuma, but politically - Miramar might be given to the city of San Diego as a replacement for SAN.

NAF El Centro could be closed.

Fairchild at Spokane is an option to close.

Beale could be closed and moved to Travis.

Maxwell in Alabama needs to go.

Look for some of these bases to become Joint Reserve Bases.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 5):
Wouldn't closing Scott necessitate the movement of TRANSCOM, anyway? I would think that uprooting such a critical function would be difficult.

If they were to close Scott, moving Transcom would not be a huge deal. It could move to Wright-Pat or Offutt.

A couple questions - is Offutt still a major requirement, or could it go to Colorado Springs? If Goodfellow needs to close, what about Buckley?

But all the discussion of military needs really isn't relevant - BRAC is always political in priorities.

BTW if BRAC in 2015 - the current administration home states likely won't be a big decision factor because they will be lame ducks on their way out before a BRAC would be implemented.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7321 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 8):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):Altus may very well be closed, and assets (KC-135s and C-17s) sent to reopen Castle AFB.........in California.
Why re-open Castle?

Because California is having a difficult time with their budget, and with politics the way they are today, I would not be surprised to see this administration reopen Castle as a reward to the state.

But one CA base will close, I believe. MCAS Miramar. The constant noise complaints, and the F/A-18 crash (2009?) into civilian houses killing some civilians have made the base locally unpopular.

Plus San Diego really needs to move their airport there. It is cheaper than building a new airport. California can use the Navy Brig Miramar as another prison. Yes, I know it is the only female prison for the US Military (it also houses male military prisoners), but I'm sure facilities can be made at Fort Leavenworth, KS to accommodate them. Or just reopen "The Castle", the old Navy Prison at Portsmouth Navy Yard in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7186 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
Because California is having a difficult time with their budget, and with politics the way they are today, I would not be surprised to see this administration reopen Castle as a reward to the state.

Re-opening military airfields that have been closed for 20 years is not even within the realm of possibility. If the Administration, BRAC, whomever wanted to do California a favor they would keep bases they have now (Beale AFB, Miramar MCAS etc..) off the closure list.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 1):
6. Pick between one...Dover or McGuire. Consolidate one to the other (and the remainder to Andrews).

77 miles by air between MDL and Dover. With 38,000 acres and tons of available facilities at Fort Dix, McGuire AFB, Lakehurst NAS, MDL has plenty of room to absorb more missions. For instance the C-9s which were just brought over from Willow Grove in 2011 have been retired, they built all this brand new infrastructure for Navy Reserve Squadron that flies 3 C-130s and a C-12. Plus the Air Force side is still under utilized since they retired the C-141s, they replaced 35 C-141s with 16 C-17s. Plenty of ramp space available, and tons of room for additional housing on Fort Dix. Plus they have the C-17 assault strip at Lakehurst.

On the East Coast the can consolidate their mobility bases to two active and 3-4 Reserve/Guard Bases:

Active:

Charleston AFB (C-17s)
JB MDL (C-17s, C-5s, KC-10s)

Guard/Reserve:

Stewart ANG Base (C-17s)
Westover ARB (C-5)
Martinsburg (C-17?)
JB Andrews (C-17?)

The military mortuary at Dover could be relocated to JB Andrews.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7174 times:

Quoting dahawaiian (Reply 9):
I have heard this before, and it reinforces my belief that Cherry Point's days as a MCAS could be numbered either through realignment or closure. How workable is this solution?

Cherry Point geographically makes a good replacement for Oceana, it's current missions would need to be relocated:

1 CH-53 Squadron (relocate to New River or Norfolk Chambers Field?)
1 Light Attack (AH-1, UH-1) Squadron (relocate to New River)?
3 AV-8B squadrons (relocate to MCAS Beaufort)
4 Electronic Warfare Squadrons ( relocate to Whidbey Island NAS?)
1 KC-130 Squadron (Relocate to Norfolk Chambers Field?)
VMR-1 ( 2 C-9s, 1 C-20, C-12s, C-35s etc..) Split between MCAS Beaufort and New River?
1 UAV Squadron (MCAS Quantico?, New River?)



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7153 times:
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Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
The military mortuary at Dover could be relocated to JB Andrews.

The mortuary needs to go wherever the aerial port at Dover ends up. No point in moving the mortuary to a base where there is little airlift, particularly in wartime scenario.

There is no room at ADW to build a major aerial port unless the Navy, ANG or one of the other major airfield users moves. Aside from the ANG they are all pretty much politically tied to ops in the DC area....

Of course that plantation house for Gen officers at the north of the runway could be torn down... nah never happen



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 14):
The mortuary needs to go wherever the aerial port at Dover ends up. No point in moving the mortuary to a base where there is little airlift, particularly in wartime scenario.

Then JB MDL, again plenty of room on the Fort Dix post which is now under the Air Force.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5250 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7111 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
Plus San Diego really needs to move their airport there. It is cheaper than building a new airport.

Just one thing, the airport/runways would not be used for a new commercial operation. New runways would be built (and would have to be built) as well as new infrastructure and facilities. The "northside", aka Miramar, would likely either be freight terminals and other support elements or closed outright. So there is little in the way of "cheaper" with using Miramar, it is just the only supposedly open piece of land in SD big enough for an airport.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7109 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 16):
So there is little in the way of "cheaper" with using Miramar, it is just the only supposedly open piece of land in SD big enough for an airport.

What about moving the Marine Corps Recruit Depot and letting SAN acquire that land for expansion?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5250 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
What about moving the Marine Corps Recruit Depot and letting SAN acquire that land for expansion?

That is currently considered the best/most likely option for SAN for airport needs as the MCRD has been considered for consolidation several times before. Either consolidating it to Parris Island or even onto Pendelton to the north.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7044 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 18):

That is currently considered the best/most likely option for SAN for airport needs as the MCRD has been considered for consolidation several times before. Either consolidating it to Parris Island or even onto Pendelton to the north.

Consolidating everything at Parris Island doesn't seem like a great solution, either as you state move MCRD from San Diego to Pendleton or build a new one to replace both in the Center of the Country. It's strange that the Marine Corps, which is the smallest branch of the services, has two Boot camps yet the Navy and Air Force each have one. The Navy is in Chicago and the Air Force in San Antonio, both Central locations. The Marine Corps, as part of BRAC, could take over someplace like Fort Leonard Wood and make that their boot camp.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7044 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 18):
That is currently considered the best/most likely option for SAN for airport needs

I though some of the goals were for a second parallel runway of at least equal length, ILS capability on both ends of the runway, a much expanded terminal area, and a better cargo facility / capacity.

Taking MCRD only provides a new terminal location, and possibly some cargo operations area. There is not enough separation for a second runway for concurrent operation and the terrain and noise issues remain.


User currently onlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5250 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7032 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 20):
I though some of the goals were for a second parallel runway of at least equal length, ILS capability on both ends of the runway, a much expanded terminal area, and a better cargo facility / capacity.

Taking MCRD only provides a new terminal location, and possibly some cargo operations area. There is not enough separation for a second runway for concurrent operation and the terrain and noise issues remain.

At the risk of being off topic the best I have found showing possible runway alignments is on pages 21 & 23 of this presentation:
http://www.san.org/documents/amp/ado...iminaryConceptDev_V04-21-08_LR.pdf

You get two runways though not independent of each, but you do remove the limitations that currently exist with the airport and can operate any type of aircraft with full loads going out etc. I'll leave it at that.

Back on topic, don't forget that it is more than just bases that get BRAC'd, San Diego was the beneficiary of an earlier BRAC that in 1997 brought the headquarters of the Navy's Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR) which was formerly located in the Washington, D.C. area. During the last BRAC round there was a push by the original location to basically get it back. Miramar was the big topic at the time but San Diego was very fortunate to keep this asset which is actually a bigger economic benefit to the area than Miramar.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Fairchild at Spokane is an option to close.

Beale could be closed and moved to Travis.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Maxwell in Alabama needs to go.

No to all three and here's why:
1. Besides the massive amount of tankers, Fairchild has the SERE training campus and a TON of $$ invested in it. Packing it up and moving it elsewhere is next to impossible.
2. Beale and Travis are two separate missions...Ramp space at Travis is at a premium right now and couldn't possibly handle moving the U-2's, MC-12's, T-38's and RQ-4's from Beale.
3. When practically your entire Officer Education is located at one base, it makes it impossible to move...so there goes Maxwell off the list.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
Guard/Reserve:

Stewart ANG Base (C-17s)
Westover ARB (C-5)
Martinsburg (C-17?)
JB Andrews (C-17?)

The military mortuary at Dover could be relocated to JB Andrews.

New York? No
Massachusetts? No way
West Virginia? Yes
Andrews? Not until the country falls to some enemy

Moving the mortuary from DOV to ADW? No way, politicians don't want to be around the dead.

Quoting tugger (Reply 16):
tugger

All the more reason to close NKX. All those union construction jobs. The cost is of no concern to the federal government.

NKX_-_FAA_airport_diagram.gif" target="_blank">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...f/f5/NKX_-_FAA_airport_diagram.gif


User currently offlinerc135x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6950 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
If Ellsworth closes and everything goes to Dyess, then Altus can't go there. McConnell and Altus could be consolidated - and I think Altus would be a better location.

I believe the advantage would be to move the KC-135 school house to McConnell or Grand Forks and the C-5 and C-17 schools to a correspondingly appropriate location. Altus cannot accommodate its current fleet plus the entire 22nd ARW at McConnell. Moreover, the infrastructure around the base at Altus is oriented toward a smaller number of residents (transient students attending the school, instructors, etc.) and would be overwhelmed with new arrivals requiring schools, neighborhoods, and services that are beyond the current local capacity and tax base. Finally, having been at both Altus and McConnell, I think you would see a mass DOS and exodus of people declining transfer from the metropolitan area of Wichita into the remote Oklahoma wilds, especially over issues like schools, quality of life, jobs for spouses, and travel connections to the rest of the civilized world.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 25, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6996 times:

In the 2005 BRAC round Grand Forks was realigned losing their air refueling mission and gaining a UAV mission. They can either close Grand Forks and consolidate at Beale or the opposite, close Beale and consolidate at Grand Forks.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2690 posts, RR: 8
Reply 26, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6997 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 3):
Forgot about Patrick...yah, close that puppy down too. We can handle our space needs from Vandy.

You also have the space right next door at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. The Air Force could make a fortune selling off Patrick. It also has a small Reserve CSAR wing that can be moved anywhere.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6901 times:
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Quoting windy95 (Reply 26):
You also have the space right next door at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. The Air Force could make a fortune selling off Patrick. It also has a small Reserve CSAR wing that can be moved anywhere.

Broward county already took a huge hit when the shuttle program shut down, Patrick stays. CSAR Wing is pretty much dedicated human spaceflight support, I don't think they're going anywhere either.



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User currently offlinesolarflyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 814 posts, RR: 3
Reply 28, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6848 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 26):
You also have the space right next door at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. The Air Force could make a fortune selling off Patrick. It also has a small Reserve CSAR wing that can be moved anywhere.

Thats very true.

I don't think anyone in this thread is thinking the way our government does. They won't BRAC anything in 2015 in a "swing state" such as Florida. The 2016 election cycle will be up in place too. I think Dover and anything Ohio and Florida will stay. I could see some bases closing elsewhere though. There are still too many USAF bases. Its amazing we were able to pay to keep these things open in the 80s.


User currently offlineTWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6809 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 26):
Quoting awacsooner (Reply 3):
Forgot about Patrick...yah, close that puppy down too. We can handle our space needs from Vandy.

You also have the space right next door at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. The Air Force could make a fortune selling off Patrick. It also has a small Reserve CSAR wing that can be moved anywhere.

The good ol USG just spend millions on base housing at PAFB so closing it would be difficult.
Also , the Air Force Technical Applications Center is located here. It detects "nuclear events" around the world.

Check it out..www.fas.org/irp/agency/aia/cyberspokesman/97aug/aftac.htm

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 27):
Broward county already took a huge hit when the shuttle program shut down, Patrick stays. CSAR Wing is pretty much dedicated human spaceflight support, I don't think they're going anywhere either.

Broward county is Ft. Lauderdale FL area......Brevard county is PAFB/Melbourne/Titusville...etc.etc

KD


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6713 times:

The military spends money all the time on stuff for bases that are closing down...so that wouldn't preclude them from shutting Patrick down

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 31, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6464 times:

Crazy idea, but what about consolidating the Navy/Marine Corps test pilot school and aircraft testing and evaluation operations from Patuxent River to Edwards Air Force base. There must be some kind of synergies to be had from co-locating with the Air Force. They would also have access to China Lake Weapons range as well as the Sea ranges off of Point Mugu.

Too dramatic?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineNeutronStar73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6266 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
Because California is having a difficult time with their budget, and with politics the way they are today, I would not be surprised to see this administration reopen Castle as a reward to the state.

But one CA base will close, I believe. MCAS Miramar. The constant noise complaints, and the F/A-18 crash (2009?) into civilian houses killing some civilians have made the base locally unpopular.

Are you kidding? San Diego in no way wants Miramar to move or close. And the noise complaints are NOTHING compared to if they move SAN to that location. You think La Jolla is bitching now (they really aren't) wait until they have a constant stream of commercial traffic flying in and out of there. MCAS Miramar is going NOWHERE.

Quoting tugger (Reply 18):
That is currently considered the best/most likely option for SAN for airport needs as the MCRD has been considered for consolidation several times before. Either consolidating it to Parris Island or even onto Pendelton to the north.

MCRD San Diego will not close or be demolished for SAN The majority of those buildings are on the National Registry of Historic Places and cannot be removed or leveled. Plus, you underestimate the local retiree community; no way a bunch of retirees will let that place be rumbled for the airport; it's too conveniently located for their wives to shop at the MCX. And it is a nice economic magnet for San Diego every Thursday and Friday (Recruit Family day and graduation). Families spend a lot of cash in San Diego.

Plus no one is asking for it to go. SAN couldn't do anything to help themselves with the land (the airspace restrictions will still apply, and the TO/Landing times won't change because the surrounding community won't change anything just because they added a terminal, which is all MCRD can give them with the land and site.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29698 posts, RR: 59
Reply 33, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6147 times:

A good possibility will be Eialson AFB in Alaska. They host aircraft using the Alaskan ranges mostly. They were trying hard to move their F-16 Aggressor Squadron to Elmendorf this past spring. The Alaskan congressional delegation blocked it for the time being.

Right now I think the only flying squadron besides the aggressors that is actually stationed there is the tankers flown by the AKANG.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 26):
Quoting awacsooner (Reply 3):
Forgot about Patrick...yah, close that puppy down too. We can handle our space needs from Vandy.

You also have the space right next door at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. The Air Force could make a fortune selling off Patrick. It also has a small Reserve CSAR wing that can be moved anywhere.

Isn't Vanenberg used for polar launches and Canaveral/Patrick for equatorial? SO wouldn't you need both bases for both kinds of space launches?



Я говорю по-русский. :)
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 34):
SO wouldn't you need both bases for both kinds of space launches?

Well, what about White Sands?


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 36, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5850 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 33):
Right now I think the only flying squadron besides the aggressors that is actually stationed there is the tankers flown by the AKANG.

Isn't the Pacific Tanker Task Force still there? Eialson AFB also hosts RC-135s too, I think. The USAF Arctic Survival School is there. There are two wings of the AKANG there, the 168th Air Refueling Wing (KC-135R) and the 210th Rescue Squadron (HH-60G)

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 35):
what about White Sands?

The only land based missile test range in the CONUS.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5814 times:

I haven't seen any mention about MacDill, so I'm hoping that one's safe?   


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 37):
I haven't seen any mention about MacDill, so I'm hoping that one's safe?

Not going anywhere with CENTCOM being HQ'd there


User currently onlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5250 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 32):
MCRD San Diego will not close or be demolished for SAN The majority of those buildings are on the National Registry of Historic Places and cannot be removed or leveled.

That not an issue or a problem. All the historic buildings can be preserved and can be moved if needed.

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 32):
Plus, you underestimate the local retiree community; no way a bunch of retirees will let that place be rumbled for the airport; it's too conveniently located for their wives to shop at the MCX. And it is a nice economic magnet for San Diego every Thursday and Friday (Recruit Family day and graduation). Families spend a lot of cash in San Diego.

Yeah, no. I am not underestimating the locals, retirees or not. For one thing, they do not get any real input into the BRAC process. We have a lot of Exchanges in SD and while the graduations are terrific and I think most of the city really appreciates an enjoys being the "starting place" for many thousands of Marines, it is not a major funding element (again not dismissing its "specialness").

Also, as you imply with the "local retiree community", politics could play a part as San Diego has somewhat an embarrassment of riches when it comes to the military. Not that there isn't good reason for it, as the Pentagon has decided to consolidate Navy and Marines forces in this region. So if more elements are consolidated here or if nothing else is removed, then politically it makes some locations "at risk". This has often meant that MCRD, Spawar, Miramar, and some other facilities have been at risk with the various BRAC's.

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 32):
Plus no one is asking for it to go. SAN couldn't do anything to help themselves with the land (the airspace restrictions will still apply, and the TO/Landing times won't change because the surrounding community won't change anything just because they added a terminal, which is all MCRD can give them with the land and site.

I am not sure what you mean by "Airspace restrictions" as you call them but there would be a very big change in that the biggest restriction we have, the rising terrain at the end of 27, would no longer be an issue. Regarding local community opposition, yes it would be there but they already have noise issues and already have solutions in place to address these and I do not think the communities involved would be able to have an impact as their currently impacted neighbors would be essentially not be supportive as Pt. Loma would no longer have planes flying over them and there are more homes there than the new proposed options (see my earlier post above). And I do think the citizens of San Diego would absolutely support expanding Lindbergh Field (they just aren't excited about moving it).

And SAN has wanted that space for a long time (they can't ask though as it is not available and not how the BRAC process works).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
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