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U.S. Air Force's Billion Dollar Mistake  
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8547 times:

I just noticed this while scanning the news today; It sounds bad, but it also begs some questions; What foreign company is Mr. Buffenbarger referring to ? What U.S. built A/C is he referring to ? And who IS Mr. Buffenbarger ?

http://www.rollcall.com/news/buffenb...lar_mistake-224008-1.html?src=otbp


Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8528 times:

He's referring to Embraer, which won the Light Air Support competition, which was supposed to deliver 20 aircraft to the Afghan Air Force.

I would be careful about what Mr. Buffenbarger says; he has a vested interest in Beechcraft winning the contract as head of International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.


User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8528 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
What foreign company is Mr. Buffenbarger referring to ? What U.S. built A/C is he referring to ?

Embraer A-29 Super Tucanos and the US Beechcraft offering...



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8505 times:

The Beechcraft offering was the AT-6B, an attack version of the T-6A trainer.

User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8482 times:

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 1):
I would be careful about what Mr. Buffenbarger says; he has a vested interest in Beechcraft winning the contract as head of International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

In the comment forum after the story, someone noted that Mr. Buffenbarger was a "Union Boss".........I have rather mixed feeling about "Union Bosses"; on the one hand, I'm very well aware of all of the hanky-panky perpetrated by certain unions over the years, but on the other hand, as a dues-paying member of the Teamsters Union for 41 years, (and as a Teamster retiree and drawing a Teamsters pension ), I'm also well aware of all the many benefits of belonging to a union.

I only take issue with unions for two things; first, when the union leaders are crooks and steal millions of dollars from the members, ( like the Teamsters did when it financed the building of Las Vegas ), and two..........when they get into politics and support hack politicians for high public office, expecting "hand outs" from said political hacks when they are elected, to the complete detriment of the whole country, ( which, IMO, is precisely what's happening at the present time. )

Quoting mffoda (Reply 2):
Embraer A-29 Super Tucanos and the US Beechcraft offering...

I'm wondering........exactly what is Beechcraft offering ? Is the Beech "offering" in any way related to the venerable King Air ?



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently onlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3341 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8367 times:

Beechcraft is offering the AT-6B. The design is based on the Swiss designed Pilatus PC-9. The trainer version T-6A is used by both the USAF and USN as a replacement for the T-37B and T-34C respectively. It´s also in use by the air forces of Canada, Germany, Greece, Israel and Iraq. The original PC-9 is used by another dozen or so air forces.


Attamottamotta!
User currently onlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3901 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8284 times:

For completeness, the Tucano is used by a dozen other air forces including those of Britain and France.

By not naming the companies he's referring to this man makes himself utterly incredibe I think.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2291 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 4):
...when they get into politics and support hack politicians for high public office, expecting "hand outs" from said political hacks when they are elected, to the complete detriment of the whole country, ( which, IMO, is precisely what's happening at the present time. )

As opposed to big corporations and wealthy individuals doing the same things, which is precisely what's happening at the present time...



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7178 times:

It doesn't help any rationale discussion on the topic when Beechcraft themselves say: "The AT-6 is designed and manufactured in the U.S."

The truth is that both the Tucano and PC-9 were designed outside the USA, and both the A-29 and AT-6B will be built inside the USA. So that is not a good parameter for any argument about which is best.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,B463,(..50 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13155 posts, RR: 78
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6557 times:

Not a rialble source, there are plenty, many linked on threads about this subject here, that report it from a perspective of knowlwdge of the aerospace industry, Washington, the armed forces, rather than say partisan, paranoid, rather xenophobic

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 8):
The truth is that both the Tucano and PC-9 were designed outside the USA, and both the A-29 and AT-6B will be built inside the USA. So that is not a good parameter for any argument about which is best

Just another cack handed attempt of a hatchet job, you cannot expect even basic research there.


User currently onlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3528 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 6490 times:

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 8):

It doesn't help any rationale discussion on the topic when Beechcraft themselves say: "The AT-6 is designed and manufactured in the U.S."

Are you saying the AT-6B has not been significantly modified from the original design?


User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

The GAO has released it's decision in full:
http://www.gao.gov/products/D05003#mt=e-report
The short summary is that to meet its proposed offer targets, the AT-6C would experience a 40-50% rise in MTOW, and experience shows that anything over 20% is a serious risk for problems and certification delays, as well as service life issues. There were other issues as well, and the bottom line is that the AT-6C got an Exception aircraft evaluation + High risk, while the Super Tucano was rated as Exceptional + Low Risk. Per the GAO, there was ample reason to award the contract to Sierra Nevada & Embraer and their Super Tucano proposal.


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