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RAAF Jets Used In Australian Election Instead Of Commercial Charters  
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 22600 times:

A few days ago a journalist tweeted this from the press plane following Australian opposition leader Tony Abbott.

https://twitter.com/john_odoherty/status/364738780156030976/photo/1

Its clearly military my guess would be a C-17, I just saw a piece on ABC News24 by a journalist, Latika Bourke, on another C-17 this time it was on the Prime Minister Kevin Rudds campaign and due to fly from Sydney to Brisbane for a press event (It is currently grounded at Sydney with an electrical issue though according to tweets).

Surely it is a bit unusual to use military planes for this kind of thing (we only have, 6 C-17's) and from memory last election the press chartered their own chase planes.


BV
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2238 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 22573 times:

That would explain why I saw a C-17 on descent over the northern suburbs into Sydney Airport this morning. What a waste if it is being used for this purpose. Surely you would charter a commercial aircraft instead instead of these four engined monstrosities, although the big empty spaces inside would well reflect the empty policies of Australian politics. Or maybe heavy lift is required due to the size of the egos.  Smile

[Edited 2013-08-07 18:53:03]


Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 22506 times:

Maybe better for the Military Forum


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 22506 times:

Quoting allrite (Reply 1):
What a waste if it is being used for this purpose.... although the big empty spaces inside would well reflect the empty policies of Australian politics. Or maybe heavy lift is required due to the size of the egos.

All of the above I think..




Taxpayer dollars at work..

Quoting as739x (Reply 2):
Maybe better for the Military Forum

Disagree, question is why not use civil, possibly infomation about civil charters will emerge.

[Edited 2013-08-07 19:03:46]


BV
User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 22463 times:

In today's world of austerity and cutbacks it seems very brave to use a huge four-holer for this.

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 22437 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Thread starter):
Surely it is a bit unusual to use military planes for this kind of thing

Quite normal and has been so since the late 1960, at least. That said I am surprised that they are using something as big and uncomfortable as the C-17s! Last election they used the BBJs and smaller aircraft.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 22430 times:

Certainly does seem a bit much to use such a large aircraft. Is this being directly funded by the tax-payer?


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 22406 times:
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Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
Quite normal and has been so since the late 1960, at least. That said I am surprised that they are using something as big and uncomfortable as the C-17s! Last election they used the BBJs and smaller aircraft.

The question was about the use of the C-17 for media reps travelling 'with' Rudd & Abbott, not the use of the VIP fleet actually by Rudd & Abbott. Last election I remember the Mineralogy MD80 being used for this & I think there was another media (civil) charter.

I can see a vague logistical benefit in using RAAF aircraft given the RAAF has knowledge of the trip plans of each leader. However as a taxpayer I sincerely hope the media outlets are paying for this, and not the taxpayer.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 22393 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
Last election they used the BBJs and smaller aircraft.

Nope, this is from the 2010 election and does not look like a government BBJ, also picture caption says that it's a press charted plane.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...chers/story-fn59niix-1225903189735

[Edited 2013-08-07 19:46:15]


BV
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5947 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 22387 times:

I take it that the leaders aren't flying around in C-17s right? Obviously the Prime Minister gets a BBJ; does the Opposition Leader get one during the campaign? I know that they don't normally. Also, what about other Ministers? They also need to get places for the next "big" announcement. Do they have to go commercial/parties pay for charters?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
Is this being directly funded by the tax-payer?

I can't speak for how it works here, but I imagine its the same. When POTUS goes on tour the White House charters a chase plane for the media (when Obama came to CBR it was a DL 763) but the media outlets pay the administration to join the party. This is to cover the costs of the trip. Of course all the media outlets do so willingly because they want to be there.

Quoting allrite (Reply 1):
What a waste if it is being used for this purpose... the big empty spaces inside would well reflect the empty policies of Australian politics. Or maybe heavy lift is required due to the size of the egos

  

You've just nailed it!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 22347 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 9):
I take it that the leaders aren't flying around in C-17s right? Obviously the Prime Minister gets a BBJ; does the Opposition Leader get one during the campaign?
Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 7):
Last election I remember the Mineralogy MD80 being used for this & I think there was another media (civil) charter.

Yes that was it Tony Abbott, was lent a plane by Clive Palmer for the last election, this election they are running against each other.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
Is this being directly funded by the tax-payer?

Its going to be funded by the taypayer, through the defence budget I would imagine.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 9):
I take it that the leaders aren't flying around in C-17s right? Obviously the Prime Minister gets a BBJ; does the Opposition Leader get one during the campaign?
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 9):
but the media outlets pay the administration to join the party. This is to cover the costs of the trip.

Can you imaging what the lease rate for a C-17 would be divided by 20 journalists?



BV
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 22231 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 8):

The article states its a RAAF aircraft. The interior certainly looks like a B737


User currently offlinekiffy From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22208 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
The article states its a RAAF aircraft. The interior certainly looks like a B737

RAAF 737?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Soon-Gyu Ko - Korea Aero Photos



User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5947 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22181 times:

Quoting kiffy (Reply 12):
RAAF 737

The caption to that photo in the original article says that it was a charter flight, because the RAAF frame was "grounded"

I admit, I missed it the first time as well!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22181 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
The article states its a RAAF aircraft.

No it doesn't, her RAAF flight was grounded so she boarded the Press plane


Quote:
Julia Gillard returns to her seat after speaking to reporters aboard a charter flight after her RAAF jet was grounded in Perth.

You can do a google search of the period of the last election, she did not generally ride the press plane she had her own government BBJ.

Quote:
Just before lunch time, we all clamber aboard a chartered jet, still not knowing where we're going. One: because press secretaries never trust a journalist with a mobile phone and twitter, and two: so the Opposition finds it hard to keep tabs on Julia Gillard.

Mid-air now and it turns out Geelong is the right answer and after an hour or so of air-conditioned comfort, exceptional leg-room, "free" bottled water and light lunching, we start the descent into Melbourne: it quickly becomes apparent that wet-weather apparel is needed.

Climbing out of our jet, we pass the Prime Minister's RAAF plane (she's beaten us there!) and clamber aboard a new media bus to zip us off to Geelong.
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/hack/stories/s2979286.htm



BV
User currently offlinekiffy From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22169 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
The caption to that photo in the original article says that it was a charter flight, because the RAAF frame was "grounded"

I admit, I missed it the first time as well!
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 14):
No it doesn't, her RAAF flight was grounded so she boarded the Press plane

Oh oops, thanks for the clarification.


User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 887 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21921 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 3):
Taxpayer dollars at work..
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
Certainly does seem a bit much to use such a large aircraft. Is this being directly funded by the tax-payer?
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 10):
Its going to be funded by the taypayer, through the defence budget I would imagine.

Not a thoroughly authoritative source, but tweets from several journalists indicated that the charters are paid for by the respective political parties, so at least not directly taxpayer funded. I find it hard to believe that this would be more cost effective than leasing a civilian airliner, so either the RAAF offers a very good rate or this is only an interim measure while civilian charters are arranged.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21875 times:

Back before that in 2007 Howard had a few F100s out from Croatia for the press! All of the 146s and fokkers in the Australian fleet were too busy on mining contracts and weren't available. This time around I think it would be similar, however their are some recent aircraft retirements soon...QF 734s, some Virgin 73G's and Air NZ 737s that could all potentially serve this role well. Also I believe the Airbus A319 pictured above is the one used to go down to Antartic... the government sort of lease it to get the scientists down there but when its got downtime it's available to to public to charter.

User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21823 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 17):
Also I believe the Airbus A319 pictured above is the one used to go down to Antartic...

I think that A319 is currently employed taking boat people to PNG at the moment....



BV
User currently offlineA36001 From Australia, joined Sep 2012, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 21526 times:

The faster this particular election is over with the better. What a miserable 6 years of parliament we have all had! I am so totally sick to death of both Capital Hill and the Canberra Press gallery I mute my TV when any politician or political "journalist" appears on it!!

And if that RAAF C-17 is uncomfortable for the press....good! If the thing got grounded and that meant campaign Kevin747 is not on my telly....even better! If I hear 'zip' one more time I am going to go    chuck a    then die!


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 21463 times:

In Germany there's a clear cut between official business and campaign flights. The chancellor can fly one of the government fleet aircraft on campaign trips but then the party has to pay for it by the hour.

They are cheaper off chartering from private contractors.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlinekiffy From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 21412 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 17):
the Airbus A319 pictured above

Ah, good catch! Its the Skytraders A319 CJ (VH-VHD).


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 21305 times:

Why didn't they use one of the KC-30s?

User currently offlinelegs From Australia, joined Jun 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 21134 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
use one of the KC-30s?

They probably weren't available, they've been pretty busy flying sorties for Talisman Sabre


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 21077 times:

Democracy costs money and Media in an election campaign is well... essential. If Parties are chipping in (and remember parties get cash from the taxpayer as well as their members / fundraising efforts) - so be it.

User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 21105 times:

Actually see last sentence in this article:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...rport/story-fnho52jl-1226693397475


User currently offlinefridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 11
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20790 times:
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Flying around in a C-17 with THOSE kind of operating costs? Is he serious? He must want to lose the election!

Not a good decision Mate!



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
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