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India Launches INS Vikrant  
User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1680 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10813 times:

Congratulations to India for launching the first of their own indigenous aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...s-vikrant/articleshow/21774896.cms

Quote:
KOCHI: India on Monday launched its first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, joining the elite club of nations with the capability of designing and building a warship of this size and capability.

Defence Minister A K Antony's wife Elizabeth launched the 37,500-tonne carrier at Kochi shipyard almost four-and-a-half years after its keel was laid by the minister.
http://www.airliners.net/uf/95260/1376357388VhgbCz.jpeg

It's going to be another 1 and a half to 2 years before she is ready, but welcome to the carrier club.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWingsFan From India, joined Oct 2009, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10746 times:

Congrats! Its an important milestone for India.

So this is aircraft carrier #3 for India and the Indian navy has already ran out of names? Why not name it something else? Is there any 'lineage' between the new Vikrant and the old ?

WingsFan


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4378 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10726 times:

Looks like the stern is cut off..!


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 10717 times:

Quoting WingsFan (Reply 1):
So this is aircraft carrier #3 for India and the Indian navy has already ran out of names? Why not name it something else? Is there any 'lineage' between the new Vikrant and the old ?

Actually, this is carrier #4. #3 is the ex-Gorshkov INS Vikramaditya, and #2 was INS Viraat. Vikrant#1 was our first carrier, and the only one to have seen action in battle. I think it's a nice nod to a ship that a lot of people are fond of, and one that served us 36 years.

Quoting ThePointblank (Thread starter):
It's going to be another 1 and a half to 2 years before she is ready

Quite the optimist, aren't we?  



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7137 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10605 times:

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 3):
Quite the optimist, aren't we?

It takes less time to build a Nimitz than to build this one.


User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10604 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
Looks like the stern is cut off..!

She's not fully complete. As you can see, large portions of the hull are not complete. The lower hull is completed. But the upper hull is only complted about 75% of the way from the bow back. The flight deck only covers that area of the vessel. So you still have approximately 20-25% of the upper hull and flight deck to complete.

And, of course the island is not on the vessel yet. All of that has to be complete, which will include significant portions of the innards and probably the aft section of the hanger deck, before the major weapons, sensors, and other systems can be added. They probably left the chunk of the aft flight deck off because they need a large hole in the hull to get large components inside the ship, and it was either this, or cut large holes into the hull afterwords and get whatever they need in.

I believe the Indian government was at a point where they had to launch the vessel, as the slipway Vikrant was built on was fairly small. She will probably be moved to where the rest of the work can be accomplished.


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

Part of the reason construction took this long was that the steel was originally planned to be procured from abroad. But that didn't work out, for several reasons. Ultimately they commissioned DMRL to come up with a warship grade steel, and the PSU plants successfully managed to produce it. This steel went into the Vikrant, and also into the P15A/P15B destroyers, P17 frigates and P28 corvettes. In the process they shaved off about Rs.1500crore off the cost, compared to the original price of imported steel, but at the cost of the additional time.

The island and sections of the angled deck have already been seen in pictures elsewhere. They need to be installed after this float out. CSL doesn't have the luxury of letting this hull occupy the drydock continuously - it's better to install those off dock, now that the basic hull is complete.

Keep in mind this is a pretty big carrier for a first local effort - it's larger than anything the RN has had built, except for the QE2 class under construction, for example.

Progress on this ship has been pretty good - there's quite significant progress since the pics from last year, and in a year both the angled deck and island might be in place, for a more complete look. The next hurdle is likely to be sensor and comm integration. The P15A ships are delayed for this reason - the ships are largely complete, but the collaborative weapons suite development (with Israel ?) is not.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7137 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10495 times:

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 5):
I believe the Indian government was at a point where they had to launch the vessel, as the slipway Vikrant was built on was fairly small. She will probably be moved to where the rest of the work can be accomplished.

Cochin first floated her out from the building hall in 2011, they have been working on her whilst she's been floating for 2 years now.


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
Cochin first floated her out from the building hall in 2011, they have been working on her whilst she's been floating for 2 years now.

It was floated out in 2012, but to make space on the drydock for the INS Viraat's more urgent overhaul work. Once that was completed, the Vikrant hull returned to drydock.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7137 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10468 times:

some more photos

http://oi44.tinypic.com/15k3eq.jpg

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2n1crro.jpg

[Edited 2013-08-13 10:41:03]

User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10074 times:

Tell me a little bit about the propulsion systems that they are planning to employ on this vessel.

User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10054 times:

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 11):
Tell me a little bit about the propulsion systems that they are planning to employ on this vessel.

4 GE LM2500+ gas turbine engines, coupled to two shafts.


User currently offlineBladeLWS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10048 times:

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 11):
4 GE LM2500+ gas turbine engines, coupled to two shafts.

Any info on the running gear? Fixed or controlled pitch props? This sounds a lot like a USN cruiser/destroyer plant (same 4x LM2500 setup) which is fine for a sleek destroyer looking for speed but not for a carrier.

My concern with this kind of setup is it will be a fuel hog and they'll have to become very reliant on unrep for any kind of blue water ops. IMHO they should of went with a CODAG setup like the Makin Island (almost the same displacement) did so she could cruise on diesels and use the turbines for sprints, saves a ton of fuel.

Heck I'm sure if they asked us we would of sold them the entire engineering plant...

[Edited 2013-08-14 20:47:35]

User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10034 times:

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 12):
Any info on the running gear? Fixed or controlled pitch props? This sounds a lot like a USN cruiser/destroyer plant (same 4x LM2500 setup) which is fine for a sleek destroyer looking for speed but not for a carrier.

It is apparently and indigenous gearbox they are using, no word on the props. The running gear was designed in collaboration with an Italian shipyard, Fincantieri.

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 12):
My concern with this kind of setup is it will be a fuel hog and they'll have to become very reliant on unrep for any kind of blue water ops. IMHO they should of went with a CODAG setup like the Makin Island (almost the same displacement) did so she could cruise on diesels and use the turbines for sprints, saves a ton of fuel.

Apparently, the design goal was maximum speed of 28 knots, with a endurance of 7,500 nautical miles at 18 knots.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12345 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 12):

My concern with this kind of setup is it will be a fuel hog and they'll have to become very reliant on unrep for any kind of blue water ops.

How far away do you think they'll want to be going? Seems their main concerns (Pakistan, China) are their neighbors.

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 12):
Heck I'm sure if they asked us we would of sold them the entire engineering plant...

Well it seems GE sold them 4x LM2500... If GE is like a lot of companies, I bet a lot of people of Indian origin worked on those suckers....



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10024 times:

A few more pics from the launch:

This is how it looked last summer when floated out to make way for the Viraat's overhaul:

Probably late 2010:
http://frontierindia.org/forum/attachments/f3/1349d1375583816-history-indian-aircraft-carrier-design-aircraft-carrier-ins-vikrant-indian-navy-beilg-built-cochin-shipyard-limited.jpg



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10009 times:

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 3):
I think it's a nice nod to a ship that a lot of people are fond of, and one that served us 36 years.

I had a Heineken on board when she visited Madras Port in the late 60s...  


Anybody, what are the pros and cons of having a ski-jump vs a flat deck? Thanks.


User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 16):
Anybody, what are the pros and cons of having a ski-jump vs a flat deck? Thanks.

For STOBAR carriers, it means that aircraft can take off with more payload and fuel with a ski-jump than with a regular flat deck if no catapult is available. The limitation is that if you eventually decide to install catapults, they don't work on a ski-jump. Also a ski-jump cuts into space for deck parking of aircraft, which means smaller air group.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7137 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9936 times:

It's always surprised me the the US LHA's weren't built with ramps, especially the new America class, I'm sure the underpowered turd F-35 needs all the assistance it can get to haul it's lardy arse into the sky.

User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9910 times:

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 17):
For STOBAR carriers, it means that aircraft can take off with more payload and fuel with a ski-jump than with a regular flat deck if no catapult is available. The limitation is that if you eventually decide to install catapults, they don't work on a ski-jump. Also a ski-jump cuts into space for deck parking of aircraft, which means smaller air group.

Thank you, Sir!   


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12345 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9856 times:

On the bad news side:

Indian submarine blasts: Divers struggle to search vessel

Quote:

Indian divers are struggling to search a submarine which sank after it exploded in a Mumbai dockyard with 18 sailors feared dead inside


Wikipedia tells us:

Quote:

INS Sindhurakshak is a Russian-made Kilo-class Type 636[2] (Sindhughosh-class) diesel-electric submarine of the Indian Navy.[3]


In happier times:



Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Sindhurakshak_%28S63%29

A sad event at the same time the new carrier moves forward...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7137 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9856 times:

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 17):
Also a ski-jump cuts into space for deck parking of aircraft, which means smaller air group.

Depends on how you design the ski-jump; if you removed the ski-jump from the Queen Elizabeth class I doubt there would be any additional parking available as that would be where the cat's would be located, it's nicely illustrated in this diagram (which shows more parking on the non cat version.



User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9360 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 16):
I had a Heineken on board when she visited Madras Port in the late 60s...

I've only seen her at Bombay, after she was converted into a museum. On the Viraat, however, I once got a chance to ride up to the flight deck on one of the aircraft elevators when she was visiting Cochin.. one of the thrilling moments of my early teens..  



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4378 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9359 times:

Can the F35B even use a ski jump, has this been tried ?


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9293 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):
Can the F35B even use a ski jump, has this been tried ?

Just ask around. I am quite several of our F-35 'specialists' can tell you, based on their apparently vast knowledge.
A WAG would be "it could be accomplished", especially if LM oversaw the certification. Cost unknown.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
25 HAWK21M : Nicepics.
26 tugger : If you look at the diagram's of the Queen Elizabeth class in reply 21, they show a ski-jump and F-35's. So it is safe to assume that yes, the F-35 ca
27 bennett123 : What is the source of the diagram in reply 21?.
28 Post contains links KiwiRob : http://navy-matters.beedall.com/cvf1-24.htm Beedall is highly reputable, so I have not problem with the accuracy of the diagram. What I think is impre
29 Post contains links and images ThePointblank : On the subject of HMS Queen Elizabeth, this is what she looks like as of a few weeks ago: All that remains from the hull and superstructure standpoin
30 HAWK21M : Comming up real fast.....nice pics.
31 N328KF : In India's defense, you're talking about a country's first indigenous effort to design and build an all-new class, and comparing it with a country wh
32 sturmovik : Agreed, but we do have a history of painfully long drawn development processes for defence projects, even accounting for the fact that it is a first
33 BigJKU : So very angry for whatever reason but for those looking for actual knowledge on this the main reason the US Amphibious ships don't use ski-jumps is t
34 Post contains links BarfBag : While the Vikrant's construction continues, INS Vikramaditya was formally handed over to the Indian Navy at Severodvinsk today: http://www.youtube.com
35 Dreadnought : I'm a big fan of naval history, and of the British navy in particular. The British for many years built the grandest looking ships. But the Queen Eli
36 KiwiRob : They had a fair bit of help from Fincanteri, but that's beside the point it takes them significantly longer to build a ship of any class than say the
37 BarfBag : Fincantieri's role is consultancy related to propulsion system integration, which hasn't yet been done. There was a previous plan to build a carrier
38 KiwiRob : The Chinese took a long time because they were pulling apart and rebuilding her to study the vessel, I'm pretty sure when China builds it's own CVN's
39 DTW2HYD : There is a catch, almost all western countries transferred dual-use technology to India to make Viraat a reality. When China wants dual-use technolog
40 BarfBag : And India took time because it wanted to get things right the first time on its own. I'd argue it's a hell of a lot harder to figure out how to built
41 Post contains links BarfBag : India to build four LPDs
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