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Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?  
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7639 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7041 times:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...g-YAL-1A-%28747-4G4F%29/2299688/M/

Is there any prospect that this aircraft could be preserved?.

Also, is the technology to be used on other platforms?.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3303 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6911 times:

Looks more like a preservation or a storage than a scrapping...

[Edited 2013-08-13 09:11:15]


"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31062 posts, RR: 87
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6788 times:
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Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
Looks more like a preservation or a storage than a scrapping...

That is correct. It's being kept as a research asset and is in long term storage (as part of the 309th Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group).


User currently offlinesprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

The Military does strange things. Looks like as everyone said "preservation" for future use.

Is that a Phantom and a Skymaster in the background? Need to preserve those babies.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31062 posts, RR: 87
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6472 times:
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Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 3):
The Military does strange things. Looks like as everyone said "preservation" for future use.

Well they reportedly sank some five billion into the program as a whole, so might as well keep it around...  


User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6316 times:

Although this aircraft may not be a total loss, it does appear that it is being parted out to some extent. If you check other photos in the database, the aircraft is whole in January:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stuart Haigh


In May, YAL is missing its trailing edge flaps:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © HGabor


In the photo posted by the OP, she is now missing a body panel behind her starboard wing.



Cha brro
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3578 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6232 times:
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Even though they say is "in preservation", it will eventually be scrapped. the nose turret might be retained as a cold war trophy in a military air museum. The main reasons are the airframe has been extensively modified, none of the components are common with either the existing Air Force Ones, or the replacement 747-8i's, some laser components are extremely toxic, and the technology is fast becoming obsolete (still you wouldn't want anyone studying it too closely).

On top of all that, there is simply no money nor the will to find some to continue to fly the bird for further research.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

But the missing parts are common to all B-747-400s. I could see they may have been sold to an ally who flies the B-747-400 as their Presidential/VIP aircraft, like Japan.

JSDAF B-747-47C, tail # 20-1102

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan...d=bd83175a159fcb1155def02866780900

JSDFAF B-747-47C, tail # 20-1101

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan...d=bd83175a159fcb1155def02866780900


User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4336 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6174 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
But the missing parts are common to all B-747-400s.

Are parts for 744's in such dire shortage that the USAF is willing to pull them off of a plane that was part of a $5 billion project?



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3578 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6089 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
But the missing parts are common to all B-747-400s.

they were common.. however they would need zero timing and refurbishment before being sold.. Since the government isn't in the used parts business to either commercial airlines or other governments, I doubt would haver started with these parts..

On the other hand they may just have removed and crated for long term storage where dust dirt, birds and solar damage is minimal.


User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

Quoting redflyer (Reply 8):
Are parts for 744's in such dire shortage that the USAF is willing to pull them off of a plane that was part of a $5 billion project?

The 744 flaps are not part of the project that cost $5B.

As for shortage... it may have been a matter of rush, the USAF has a near new set sitting in the desert.


IOU 1 set 744 flaps.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3578 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6042 times:
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Quoting Oroka (Reply 10):
The 744 flaps are not part of the project that cost $5B.

As for shortage... it may have been a matter of rush, the USAF has a near new set sitting in the desert.

the plane itself was part of the $5B.. that included the flaps

Flaps would still have needed refurb.. and Boeing usually has sets available for lease.. larger customers also lease out their spares, plus there are plenty of commercial -400's to take flaps from..


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5986 times:
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FWIW: A post on Boneyard Almanacs FB page says it's going to the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

The activity seen could be crews getting her airworthy for the trip.


https://www.facebook.com/#!/BoneyardAlmanac



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User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3578 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5983 times:
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Quoting zanl188 (Reply 12):
it's going to the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

dang, another tax supported budget eating hole in the ground just because it is.. A pork barrel idea probably leading up to spending money on another hanger.


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5981 times:
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Quoting kanban (Reply 13):
dang, another tax supported budget eating hole in the ground just because it is.. A pork barrel idea probably leading up to spending money on another hanger.

NMUSAF has a non-profit doing the construction fund raising for them... but yes a new hangar is underway...

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=970



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User currently offlinebuckeyetech From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5974 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 12):
FWIW: A post on Boneyard Almanacs FB page says it's going to the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

That's an interesting rumor. It would make sense to put her there, if it didn't cost too much money for a one-time flight to DWF. I'd love to see her outside with the other airborne laser aircraft.



B-52H, C-141C, C-5A, C-17A
User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5937 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 11):
the plane itself was part of the $5B.. that included the flaps

I knew someone would nit-pick that. A 744 costs around $80-90M... the other $4 910 000 000 is laser and related systems. The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

A refurbishment on a part with so little time would probably come down to inspection and a lube job.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12597 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5898 times:

Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):
I knew someone would nit-pick that. A 744 costs around $80-90M... the other $4 910 000 000 is laser and related systems. The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

I don't know. Most of the references speak of it as a "modified" 744. I doubt this is something that can be rolled out the nose or cargo door and pushed onto a different 744. Given the prime contractor was Boeing, I don't think there's all that much inside that is common with an "off the shelf" 744.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3578 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5725 times:
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Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):
The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

go back and look at the history.. a production unit was delivered to Wichita where the aft body was extensively beefed up, the aluminum skins replaced with stainless steel, the forward structure gutted and beefed up to carry the dome, all wiring replaced.. new floor beams, hardly a off the shelf bird..

However the main issue you need to grasp is the Air Force does not sell used parts to commercial airlines or foreign governments (the latter requires Congressional approval). They might remove and refurbish to Military standards, but do not have an FAA repair certificate.

It's moot anyway if the plane is going to be flown to a gate guarding location.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 14):
NMUSAF has a non-profit doing the construction fund raising for them... but yes a new hangar is underway...

Sorry I was being a little sarcastic.. especially after seeing several museums disbanding and selling collections when the contributions dry up. However, I doubt that the laser hardware in the aft end will stay intact.. it's A) caustic, and B) a closely guarded test installation. .. If people were not so enthralled by shiny metal, a more practical display would be a conceptual cut away laser mock-up inside a building and the nose section detached and mounted on the exterior..


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2731 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5661 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 18):

the aluminum skins replaced with stainless steel

So the skinn of the fuselage is now stainless steel? Is that correct? Doesn't look like stainless steel. And why did they have to replace the aluminium skin?


User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7639 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

I know that Nuclear facilities use all Stainless. Is it possible that Radiation is a factor.

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3578 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5602 times:
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Quoting N14AZ (Reply 19):
nd why did they have to replace the aluminium skin?

it was the corrosive nature of the chemicals in the laser and the out gassing/drainage of those chemicals. They also replaced some of the ribs and stringers for the same reason. not: it was only the aft belly skins that were replaced..


User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5314 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 18):
a production unit was delivered to Wichita

Sounds like she started off as an off the shelf bird to me. She may have been modified a bit, i cant remember if the standard 744 comes with the giant laser turret on their nose or not.

The whole frame could never be sold off for pretty much any other use, but I dont think the wings were modified.

But then again, I dont work for Boeing or the USAF anymore (or ever), they dont call me to keep me up to date any more  



If they are not selling the flaps off to someone, or loaning... and I doubt it is being scrapped, let us speculate some more about the fate of the marginally modified 744F with the FRICKIN LAZOR BEAMS ATTACHED TO ITS HEAD.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3578 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5304 times:
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Quoting Oroka (Reply 22):
speculate some more about the fate .

read post # 12...

and yes the wings may have been modified because of the air flow changes caused by the turret


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 711 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5164 times:

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 3):
Is that a Phantom and a Skymaster in the background? Need to preserve those babies.

The F-4s do actually get kept around for one final flight as a QF-4 missile target.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Most of the references speak of it as a "modified" 744. I doubt this is something that can be rolled out the nose or cargo door and pushed onto a different 744. Given the prime contractor was Boeing, I don't think there's all that much inside that is common with an "off the shelf" 744.

No, the airplane was ordered by the USAF on 30 Jan. 1998 as a standard B-747-400F (it is not the ERF model). After delivery, it went to the modification location (Kansas) where the air refueling equipment and some of the external equipment and military avionics were installed. The laser turret was also installed there after the equipment was installed through the nose cargo door at NG.

Yes, the YAL-1A is air refuelable.


User currently offlinegroover158 From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Here's some pics of it that I took last year:





User currently onlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4558 posts, RR: 19
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):

I knew someone would nit-pick that. A 744 costs around $80-90M... the other $4 910 000 000 is laser and related systems. The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

I think you're about $100 million low..


In any case it's an incredibly cool idea in an awesome Aircraft.


Shame it didn't work !



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
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