tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 6371 posts, RR: 10 Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16550 times:
End of a good ship that had a somewhat troubled history but she did her job for nearly 40 years.
Though it was offered for preservation no groups were able to provide proposals that they could viably support her, so with that she was put to bid for scrap and a company in TX bid one penny as the cost to scrap will largely equal any residual material value they will obtain.
nomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 2108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16258 times:
I've been in more than one job that used the films of the fire in training. Mostly as examples of everything not to do.
Firefighting policies and training might have been lacking, but no group of men on the planet were more courageous and dedicated than those guys.
In the end "She did her job" is worth more than all the speeches and shiny awards in the world.
I saw her not too long ago, near the SS United States. Both were obviously way past the practical point of restoration. I wish the bureaucrats could make a decision without dicking around for a decade or more.
I think Forrestal is the first supercarrier ever to be scrapped. Coral Sea took a long time because there were numerous financial, legal and environmental issues surrounding her scrapping. Coral Sea was the largest warship ever to be scrapped at the time and the contractor didn't have the experience to scrap Coral Sea. The contractor later ran into financial difficulties due to the complexity of the scrapping, and there were even environmental issues regarding ship which slowed down scrapping and added more issues. There was even a serious proposal to send Coral Sea to China for scrapping (she was even prepped and cleaned up for the tow) before the Navy got an injunction to stop the proposal. Later the contractor got indicted on criminal charges related to the scrapping of Coral Sea.
Scrapping later continued, but at a much slower pace (the fires in 1996 and 1997 didn't help either), until Coral Sea was completely scrapped in 2000, 7 years in total.
woodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1153 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 15668 times:
Same thing happened to Oriskany. She was bought by a contractor for scrap, towed over to Mare Island, contractor didn't do very much, the Navy repossessed the hull and it was later sunk as an artificial reef off Florida.
It doesn't really take very long to dismantle a large ship like Forrestal, larger ships have been dismantled in less than a few months. If its being dismantled in the US or other first world country, environmental laws and doing it the right way will cause the dismantling to take a very long time - as noted above 7 years in the case of Coral Sea.
If you send it to the shipbreakers in Bangladesh, India (where the French carrier Clemenceau was sent originally - it ended up being dismantled in England), or Pakistan. It's all done by hand and acetylene torches. They just run the ship around off the beach among all the other commercial oil tankers, freighters being dismantled. After a few months the ship is gone, leaving just the environmental disaster and hazardous waste on the beach.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7805 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 15577 times:
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3): Do we know it can move on its own power or it need to be towed to Brownsville, Texas.
From the Wikipedia article on the Forrestal - "After being stricken, ex-Forrestal was heavily stripped to support the rest of the carrier fleet."
It would be extremely expensive to try to get a ship like that underway on its own power. And take a lot of work and people and a long time. A tow is much easier and cheaper. But they have to wait for the right weather forecast.
Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 7): I'd rather see the big girls as reefs than scrapped. It might seem strange to most to think a ship has a soul.
Sinking a ship for a reef takes a lot of work to prepare the ship. Both to ensure no long lasting environmental issues, and to make sure the ship actually sinks on schedule. The carriers have a lot of compartments which would need to be breached to ensure trapped air does not make a sinking unpredictable.
It would cost the Navy several million dollars, which they don't have, to prepare it properly for sinking.
Quoting woodreau (Reply 8): It doesn't really take very long to dismantle a large ship like Forrestal, larger ships have been dismantled in less than a few months. If its being dismantled in the US or other first world country, environmental laws and doing it the right way will cause the dismantling to take a very long time - as noted above 7 years in the case of Coral Sea.
If you look on Google Earth - you can see the scrapping yard in Brownsville near the end if the ICW.
They have a lot of experience with former US Navy ships. They will likely have to dig a bigger wet dock area for the carrier scrapping.
NeutronStar73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15314 times:
When I was at Naval Justice School I used to PT and run by the Forrestal and Saratoga every day. It was, and still is, one of the most impressive and depressing sights I've ever seen. Two huge warships, just sitting there, unused, and past their time (allegedly). Shame those things cost so much to build and operate and then they are just waiting to be turned into razor blades.
Oh well, I didn't know they moved the Forrestal in 2010, but I last visited Newport in 2009. If I ever go back, it will be a sad sight to see her gone, and Saratoga sitting there alone.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7805 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15111 times:
Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 11): It doesn't really add up for me. It's only about $15 million worth of steel and I can't see them doing the job domestically for that with all the remediation that's going to be required.
Well, the companies in Brownsville make it work for them.
There may be more value in the copper in the wiring on the ship, a lot of aluminum and other more profitable metals on the ship rather than just the steel.
My team redid the television cable system on the USS Midway during her 1985 overhaul in Japan. We used 2.3 miles of half-inch primary lines and 7.7 miles of RG-59 cable. We ran cable to only about 60% of the compartments on the ship.
I'm sure there is likely 20 miles or more of copper electrical wire left on the ship.
While the ship was stripped of parts of other ships, there is still a lot of things left which can be sold.
The ship probably won't be there when we go down to the Valley for a month in January, but it will likely be there next spring, and I'll go see it.
Somehow, as much as I love reading about military topics, I had no idea there were carriers down in the Philly inactive fleet. I've never actually seen the fleet. From where can you see it?
I think the Ranger was sitting there too. Not sure exactly where it was. I was just on a ship going up the Delaware and saw them before we passed the New Jersey. I think they were in the Philadelphia Naval Yard.
cjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14957 times:
The Kennedy is allegedly there, too.
There has to be a place you can see them from public land. My dad and I wanted to see the Olympia before the weather got too cold, but that's kinda out of the question now until the spring because of football season. If we head down there for that, I'd love to be able to catch a glimpse of some carriers.
silentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2338 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14906 times:
Quoting cjg225 (Reply 13): Somehow, as much as I love reading about military topics, I had no idea there were carriers down in the Philly inactive fleet. I've never actually seen the fleet. From where can you see it?
Quoting tugger (Reply 18):
You can/could see them when on approach to PHL. I saw the Forrestal and the Kennedy a few times when flying in there.
Yeah, they're right under the approach for 26 and 27L/R. You can also see the overhead shot on google maps, it will give you an idea of where they are.
JohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1725 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14413 times:
I've made somewhat of a hobby of finding decommissioned carriers. Bremerton is of course the hotbed of old carriers; in addtion to those mentioned earlier, Enterprise is in Norfolk and Saratoga in Newport (where the Forrestal also was until a few years ago). America is of course at the bottom of the sea, and Kennedy and Forrestal are in Philly. I believe that rounds out the list of decommissioned "supercarriers."
You can get quite close to the Kennedy and Forrestal at Philadelphia, at least you could when I visited in 2010:
My van in front of the Forrestal - again this was 2010, but that was how close you could get:
Taken on a different day on a US Airways flight climbing out of PHL, Forrestal is shown below Kennedy: