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India Succesfully Launches Mission To Mars  
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6283 times:

India's ISRO today launched Mangalyaan ,a Mars Orbiter riding on its PSLV rocket, from the Sriharikota launchpad. It was successfully inserted into an elliptical orbit that will become increasingly oblique to assist in hopping over into a Martian orbit. All this for a mere $72M; priceless both in inspiring the nation and in promoting its engineering capabilities.

Congrats, ISRO!

From the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24729073

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5697 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6145 times:
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Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

The Mangalyaan is slated to reach an orbit around Mars in Sept 2014, if all goes well. It will build up sufficient velocity to escape the earth's orbit in about 25-30 days, according to the ISRO chairman's interview after the launch. I watched the whole thing live - even Youtube had live streaming going on from state TV broadcaster Doordarshan, with an active twitter feed as well.

Once it leaves the earth's orbit, the next few months are critical. Mars probes have a long history of early failure among those who ultimately succeeded, with both the US and USSR failing on their first attempts, and the ESAs first attempt resulting in the loss of the Beagle. If the ISRO do make it all the way there, it would be the first time someone launched and put a probe in Martian orbit on first attempt by themselves.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?

While off-topic for Mil-Av:

I used to feel that way, but I changed my mind.

1. Nuclear weapons have kept the peace - most of India's borders are hostile and have seen war. Its neighbors are armed to the teeth, have nuclear arsenals and train terrorists to boot.

2. Hundreds of millions of people may lack sanitary facilities, but the solution seems more complex than just building bathrooms. Its a lot cleaner to use the fields than some of the public bathrooms, which can be quite horrific. The answer is education, and some form of discipline, which most Indians are quite allergic to.

3. India has lots of poor people because poor people keep having kids in the hope that they will look after them in their old age. They will remain poor if they remain uneducated, and a burden on the rest of the country. But they have the right to vote.

4. The money spent on India's space program is a very small percent of GDP. It funds local hi-tech industry, employs and encourages scientific talent, and is a source of pride for most Indians, since it is indigenous.

5. I can't answer the question about foreign aid, but much of it is for specific programs like malaria eradication and so on. Also remember that much aid is in the form of soft loans and an obligation to buy the donor countries' goods and services.

6. Despite it all, India is now the world's 9th ranking economy by GDP. It is now a net exporter of food.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6036 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 6):
Comorin, thank you for your input it does put a meaningful perspective on the situation.

You're welcome! Again, just my take. The hypersensitivity by a few on any India-related topic gets to be tedious after a while.


User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7613 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5966 times:

If they can really do this for $72M.....

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

I'm glad to see that - with the exception of the British press - the general reporting of this mission has been positive and has stuck to the mission and technical details. It becomes tedious when every article of any technological progress in India has the boilerplate knockdowns that you know are insincere editorialization.


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineWingsFan From India, joined Oct 2009, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5733 times:

Great news and a great achievement. Hope it goes well until completion.

comorin has already mentioned all the factors on why India's space program is not a financial distraction from the nation's goal to improve lives of its citizen. I just wish to add that the India's space program has already improved life of every resident by providing infrastructure for communication, research and most notably by improving the quality of meteorological models used to predict weather. Recent success in disaster management can be directly traced to this improvement. The space program is having a great impact on improving productivity of farmers.

Mars mission, in particular may not have such tangible results, but it will no doubt play an important part in improving technical capabilities and morale. This is important because India is already on a back foot when compared to China.


User currently offlineNeutronStar73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5702 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?

NOpe, but it does provide the nation with hope and a bit of national pride, which is immeasurable.

However, I'd caution against calling this a "success" until the probe reaches Mars orbit successfully.


User currently onlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

Quoting comorin (Thread starter):
All this for a mere $72M;

If that is indeed what was spent, then it is very impressive.

It seems that this will not be just a prestige mission, as a few 'niche' experiments will be carried out which will help the international scientific community.
No major breakthrough in the Mars exploration field, but for $ 72M, it's a steal.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5543 times:
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Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?

Gauging by some of the earlier responses above, you probabIy are, since you're the only one to have expressed it! I dont know where you're coming from but it's a pretty ignorant statement to make!

* The mission costs, as pointed out above, are a paltry $ amount by western comparsions

* To the best of anyone's knowledge, no foreigh aid was redirected to this cost

* A study of history and geography will very easily show you the reasons why it was a sad necessity for us to develop nuclear weapons (and btw, we have pledged no first use, as opposed to our wetern neighbour, who has also been proven to be a proliferator and has even threatened us with nuclear war in the past)

* This whole program is a technology demonstrator of abilities, a proof of concept, if you will, with spin offs in the civilian arena. Indigenous launch vehicles have put inot orbit locally developed satellites for communications, meteorological purposes, etc etc.

* ISRO/Antrix also offers to launch satellites for a commercial consideration, making forex for the country

* Am pretty sure you didn't know this, but the previous moon mission Chandrayaan helped establish the presence of water on the lunar surface

Granted we need to develop on many, many other counts, but we cannot be left behind on the technology front, especially when the same tech can have other uses


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

The first orbit raising maneuver was successfully accomplished. The 2nd appears to be on Saturday.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1423 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5459 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid

Can you please specify the countries offering "billions of dollars" of aid every year to India? Would be interesting to see it  


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5391 times:

As for the UK, India has actually rejected development aid from the UK (and probably other countries as well) since quite a few years, but the charity industry and the British government have been insisting on paying to India.

Jan


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5320 times:

Not to interrupt the political discussion, but does anybody know if India has access to the DSN for comms or are they on their own?


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

ISRO update page

Quote:
The third orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 02:10:43 hrs(IST) on Nov 09, 2013, with a burn time of 707 seconds has been successfully completed. The observed change in Apogee is from 40186km to 71636km.

So far so good.

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 14):
Not to interrupt the political discussion, but does anybody know if India has access to the DSN for comms or are they on their own?
Indian Deep Space Network

Some supportive claims from NASA: source

Quote:
Michael Braukas, a Nasa spokesman has told Computerworld that India’s mars mission will complement research by Nasa. Braukas told Computerworld that India’s Mars mission is not a cooperative one with NASA, but added that the US agency will provide the Indian agency some deep space communications help. The US plans to provide data from its satellites and antennas that show the craft’s position in space, for instance.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5145 times:

Thanks BB. That 32M antenna must be something to behold.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Interesting read for a positive perspective:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24867914

Jan


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5047 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):
Interesting read for a positive perspective:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24867914

Jan

That's a good response for the ones who cry about solving all your other problems before going to space. The inspiration and pride that comes from space missions can be worth more than a dozen money pit social programs that do little but make contractors and officials rich. You don't go forward by sacrificing the future. Those kids with the brains and initiative that makes them great have something to look to.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

There was some minor drama with the 4th orbit raising action. Instead of raising the apogee to 117000km, it only raised it to 78000km, due to an experimental test mode of the liquid apogee motor causing the motor to just turn off altogether. However, the risk tolerant method of doing multiple orbits between apogee raising firings enabled them to plan a supplementary orbit raising measure.

Quoting ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission site:
"Fourth supplementary orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 05:03:50 hrs(IST) on Nov 12, 2013, with a burn Time of 303.8 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 78276km to 118642km."

So that's fixed the problem.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4941 times:
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Quoting BarfBag (Reply 19):

I understood they were testing using the redundant engine systems concurrently and that this caused the premature shutdown. Later burns are time critical, braking into Mars orbit for example, and it's desirable to have redundant systems running for these burns. Thus the test.

Good thing they found this failure mode now....



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User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Yes, according to the ISRO engineer who was quoted in the press, for the first three orbit raising firings, they used only the primary coil to drive the fuel flow to the LAM. On the 4th firing, they tried out the secondary redundant coil as well, first sequentially, and then at the same time as the primary coil. It's the last mode that caused the shutdown. However, this doesn't sound like a failure mode - it was probably a mutually exclusive operating mode as designed, but run together due to a misunderstanding. Effectively, both the primary and redundant system works, and the mission remains very much on track.

ISRO has come a long way. Here are some pics of their level of technological ability in the late 1960s:

The guy in the sleeveless vest on the left is APJ Abdul Kalam, later to become President of India.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4767 times:

You come up with a lot of unexpected oscillations and shock waves when you use two fuel paths and static tests aren't going to replicate conditions that vary from zero G to acceleration. Hopefully they have an option or could load a patch to allow the redundant path to take over from the main one in timing critical burns, since it looks like they won't be able to open both at once.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Fifth orbit raising action carried out successfully, with apogee now at 193,000kms:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058

The next one will send it out of Earth orbit and towards Mars.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1968 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 23):
The next one will send it out of Earth orbit and towards Mars.

Is there another burn or departure from earth's gravity is automatic?


25 BarfBag : There's another scheduled for Dec 1 2013 that will sent the Mangalyaan on its interplantary trajectory to intersect with Mars in Sept 2014. https://ww
26 Post contains images BarfBag : The ISRO tested out Mangalyaan's color camera a couple of days ago for the first time, when it was 70,000km from earth. Here's the image it captured o
27 Post contains images BarfBag : The ISRO FB page has again been updated with a graphic of the upcoming inter-planetary shot this coming weekend. The Mangalyaan is currently doing rou
28 Post contains links DTW2HYD : Looks like MOM left earth's orbit. Quote: "India's maiden spacecraft to Mars has left the Earth's gravity to enter into the Sun's orbit on its way to
29 Post contains images HAWK21M : Exactly Great achievement.......
30 BarfBag : Mangalyaan is now farther away than the Moon, and is now the farthest object ever sent into space by India. Chandrayaan, the successful lunar probe/im
31 TK105 : Congratulations to whole team. Looking forward for a successful Mars orbit initiation. I suppose that will be a more challenging stage due to distance
32 HAWK21M : How long......durationwise theoritically.
33 rwessel : The engine burn to enter Martian orbit should happen about September 24th. So a bit less than 10 months.
34 Post contains links and images bond007 : "Over the last six years, India has received an average $4.3 billion a year from the World Bank through the IDA and the other lending programme, IBRD
35 DTW2HYD : Will there be any opportunity for course correction or too little(fuel) too late?
36 Post contains images eksath : I do think it is an impressive achievement so congrats to the team. Looking forward to it successfully achieving all the milestones. Unfortunately, th
37 rwessel : I don't know their flight plan, but they've certainly budgeted for at least a couple of mid-course correction burns during that ten month cruise. But
38 Post contains links DTW2HYD : Thank you. As always your posts are very enlightening. On the social aspect Indians benefit a lot with space research. In last few weeks there were t
39 N328KF : Indeed. The Mars Curse has befallen spacecraft at points beginning at launch all the way to landing.
40 Post contains links BarfBag : These are loans, not aid. Every cent of that is paid back. You get large loans from the IBRD and IDA when you demonstrate a continued level of credit
41 Post contains links BarfBag : You don't even need to go that far back. Phailin hit almost exactly the same spot at the 1999 cyclone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Odisha_cyclo
42 Post contains links DTW2HYD : The first of the four Trajectory Correction Maneuvers (TCM) would be carried out on December 11. http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/fi...vre-planned-fo
43 Post contains links sturmovik : http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/sci...on-mars-orbiter/article5446749.ece Went well, apparently.
44 Post contains images BarfBag : The Mangalyaan Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) craft is due enter Mars orbit on the 24th of September, on schedule. So far, ISRO indicates everything is no
45 zanl188 : Has been any pre braking burn testing been done of late? Results? Best of luck MOM!
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