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India Succesfully Launches Mission To Mars  
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4897 posts, RR: 16
Posted (11 months 3 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

India's ISRO today launched Mangalyaan ,a Mars Orbiter riding on its PSLV rocket, from the Sriharikota launchpad. It was successfully inserted into an elliptical orbit that will become increasingly oblique to assist in hopping over into a Martian orbit. All this for a mere $72M; priceless both in inspiring the nation and in promoting its engineering capabilities.

Congrats, ISRO!

From the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24729073

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5705 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7398 times:
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Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

The Mangalyaan is slated to reach an orbit around Mars in Sept 2014, if all goes well. It will build up sufficient velocity to escape the earth's orbit in about 25-30 days, according to the ISRO chairman's interview after the launch. I watched the whole thing live - even Youtube had live streaming going on from state TV broadcaster Doordarshan, with an active twitter feed as well.

Once it leaves the earth's orbit, the next few months are critical. Mars probes have a long history of early failure among those who ultimately succeeded, with both the US and USSR failing on their first attempts, and the ESAs first attempt resulting in the loss of the Beagle. If the ISRO do make it all the way there, it would be the first time someone launched and put a probe in Martian orbit on first attempt by themselves.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4897 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?

While off-topic for Mil-Av:

I used to feel that way, but I changed my mind.

1. Nuclear weapons have kept the peace - most of India's borders are hostile and have seen war. Its neighbors are armed to the teeth, have nuclear arsenals and train terrorists to boot.

2. Hundreds of millions of people may lack sanitary facilities, but the solution seems more complex than just building bathrooms. Its a lot cleaner to use the fields than some of the public bathrooms, which can be quite horrific. The answer is education, and some form of discipline, which most Indians are quite allergic to.

3. India has lots of poor people because poor people keep having kids in the hope that they will look after them in their old age. They will remain poor if they remain uneducated, and a burden on the rest of the country. But they have the right to vote.

4. The money spent on India's space program is a very small percent of GDP. It funds local hi-tech industry, employs and encourages scientific talent, and is a source of pride for most Indians, since it is indigenous.

5. I can't answer the question about foreign aid, but much of it is for specific programs like malaria eradication and so on. Also remember that much aid is in the form of soft loans and an obligation to buy the donor countries' goods and services.

6. Despite it all, India is now the world's 9th ranking economy by GDP. It is now a net exporter of food.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4897 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7288 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 6):
Comorin, thank you for your input it does put a meaningful perspective on the situation.

You're welcome! Again, just my take. The hypersensitivity by a few on any India-related topic gets to be tedious after a while.


User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7637 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7217 times:

If they can really do this for $72M.....

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7199 times:

I'm glad to see that - with the exception of the British press - the general reporting of this mission has been positive and has stuck to the mission and technical details. It becomes tedious when every article of any technological progress in India has the boilerplate knockdowns that you know are insincere editorialization.


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineWingsFan From India, joined Oct 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6984 times:

Great news and a great achievement. Hope it goes well until completion.

comorin has already mentioned all the factors on why India's space program is not a financial distraction from the nation's goal to improve lives of its citizen. I just wish to add that the India's space program has already improved life of every resident by providing infrastructure for communication, research and most notably by improving the quality of meteorological models used to predict weather. Recent success in disaster management can be directly traced to this improvement. The space program is having a great impact on improving productivity of farmers.

Mars mission, in particular may not have such tangible results, but it will no doubt play an important part in improving technical capabilities and morale. This is important because India is already on a back foot when compared to China.


User currently offlineNeutronStar73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?

NOpe, but it does provide the nation with hope and a bit of national pride, which is immeasurable.

However, I'd caution against calling this a "success" until the probe reaches Mars orbit successfully.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3775 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Quoting comorin (Thread starter):
All this for a mere $72M;

If that is indeed what was spent, then it is very impressive.

It seems that this will not be just a prestige mission, as a few 'niche' experiments will be carried out which will help the international scientific community.
No major breakthrough in the Mars exploration field, but for $ 72M, it's a steal.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6793 times:
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Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid and where hundreds of millions of people lack adequate plumbing and sanitary services can squander fortunes on nuclear weapons and space programs?

Gauging by some of the earlier responses above, you probabIy are, since you're the only one to have expressed it! I dont know where you're coming from but it's a pretty ignorant statement to make!

* The mission costs, as pointed out above, are a paltry $ amount by western comparsions

* To the best of anyone's knowledge, no foreigh aid was redirected to this cost

* A study of history and geography will very easily show you the reasons why it was a sad necessity for us to develop nuclear weapons (and btw, we have pledged no first use, as opposed to our wetern neighbour, who has also been proven to be a proliferator and has even threatened us with nuclear war in the past)

* This whole program is a technology demonstrator of abilities, a proof of concept, if you will, with spin offs in the civilian arena. Indigenous launch vehicles have put inot orbit locally developed satellites for communications, meteorological purposes, etc etc.

* ISRO/Antrix also offers to launch satellites for a commercial consideration, making forex for the country

* Am pretty sure you didn't know this, but the previous moon mission Chandrayaan helped establish the presence of water on the lunar surface

Granted we need to develop on many, many other counts, but we cannot be left behind on the technology front, especially when the same tech can have other uses


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6743 times:

The first orbit raising maneuver was successfully accomplished. The 2nd appears to be on Saturday.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1423 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 1):
Am I the only one that finds it offensive that a country soaking up billions of dollars of foreign aid

Can you please specify the countries offering "billions of dollars" of aid every year to India? Would be interesting to see it  


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6641 times:

As for the UK, India has actually rejected development aid from the UK (and probably other countries as well) since quite a few years, but the charity industry and the British government have been insisting on paying to India.

Jan


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Not to interrupt the political discussion, but does anybody know if India has access to the DSN for comms or are they on their own?


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

ISRO update page

Quote:
The third orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 02:10:43 hrs(IST) on Nov 09, 2013, with a burn time of 707 seconds has been successfully completed. The observed change in Apogee is from 40186km to 71636km.

So far so good.

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 14):
Not to interrupt the political discussion, but does anybody know if India has access to the DSN for comms or are they on their own?
Indian Deep Space Network

Some supportive claims from NASA: source

Quote:
Michael Braukas, a Nasa spokesman has told Computerworld that India’s mars mission will complement research by Nasa. Braukas told Computerworld that India’s Mars mission is not a cooperative one with NASA, but added that the US agency will provide the Indian agency some deep space communications help. The US plans to provide data from its satellites and antennas that show the craft’s position in space, for instance.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Thanks BB. That 32M antenna must be something to behold.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

Interesting read for a positive perspective:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24867914

Jan


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6297 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):
Interesting read for a positive perspective:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24867914

Jan

That's a good response for the ones who cry about solving all your other problems before going to space. The inspiration and pride that comes from space missions can be worth more than a dozen money pit social programs that do little but make contractors and officials rich. You don't go forward by sacrificing the future. Those kids with the brains and initiative that makes them great have something to look to.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6205 times:

There was some minor drama with the 4th orbit raising action. Instead of raising the apogee to 117000km, it only raised it to 78000km, due to an experimental test mode of the liquid apogee motor causing the motor to just turn off altogether. However, the risk tolerant method of doing multiple orbits between apogee raising firings enabled them to plan a supplementary orbit raising measure.

Quoting ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission site:
"Fourth supplementary orbit raising manoeuvre of Mars Orbiter Spacecraft, starting at 05:03:50 hrs(IST) on Nov 12, 2013, with a burn Time of 303.8 seconds has been successfully completed.The observed change in Apogee is from 78276km to 118642km."

So that's fixed the problem.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6191 times:
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Quoting BarfBag (Reply 19):

I understood they were testing using the redundant engine systems concurrently and that this caused the premature shutdown. Later burns are time critical, braking into Mars orbit for example, and it's desirable to have redundant systems running for these burns. Thus the test.

Good thing they found this failure mode now....



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User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6062 times:

Yes, according to the ISRO engineer who was quoted in the press, for the first three orbit raising firings, they used only the primary coil to drive the fuel flow to the LAM. On the 4th firing, they tried out the secondary redundant coil as well, first sequentially, and then at the same time as the primary coil. It's the last mode that caused the shutdown. However, this doesn't sound like a failure mode - it was probably a mutually exclusive operating mode as designed, but run together due to a misunderstanding. Effectively, both the primary and redundant system works, and the mission remains very much on track.

ISRO has come a long way. Here are some pics of their level of technological ability in the late 1960s:

The guy in the sleeveless vest on the left is APJ Abdul Kalam, later to become President of India.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6017 times:

You come up with a lot of unexpected oscillations and shock waves when you use two fuel paths and static tests aren't going to replicate conditions that vary from zero G to acceleration. Hopefully they have an option or could load a patch to allow the redundant path to take over from the main one in timing critical burns, since it looks like they won't be able to open both at once.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5795 times:

Fifth orbit raising action carried out successfully, with apogee now at 193,000kms:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/ISROs-Mars-Orbiter-Mission/1384015488503058

The next one will send it out of Earth orbit and towards Mars.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 23):
The next one will send it out of Earth orbit and towards Mars.

Is there another burn or departure from earth's gravity is automatic?


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

There's another scheduled for Dec 1 2013 that will sent the Mangalyaan on its interplantary trajectory to intersect with Mars in Sept 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1393343250903615&set=pb.1384015488503058.-2207520000.1384578289.&type=3&theater

Their Facebook page is quite active, with ISRO actively responding to questions there.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 26, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5644 times:

The ISRO tested out Mangalyaan's color camera a couple of days ago for the first time, when it was 70,000km from earth. Here's the image it captured of India at 3.5km resolution:



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 27, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5526 times:

The ISRO FB page has again been updated with a graphic of the upcoming inter-planetary shot this coming weekend. The Mangalyaan is currently doing rounds on the blue arc, and will have a 24 minute motor firing to send it towards Mars along the green arc, around Dec 1.




India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Looks like MOM left earth's orbit.

Quote:
"India's maiden spacecraft to Mars has left the Earth's gravity to enter into the Sun's orbit on its way to the 10-month-long journey to the 'Red Planet'. In a late night maneuver where the Mangalyaan's on-board motor was fired for 23 minutes, the spacecraft was given a final extra kick through a sling shot mechanism as it began its over-750 million km journey to Mars."

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/mi...ns-452989?pfrom=home-lateststories


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 29, posted (10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

Quoting blrsea (Reply 12):
Can you please specify the countries offering "billions of dollars" of aid every year to India? Would be interesting to see it  

Exactly  


Great achievement.......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 30, posted (10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

Mangalyaan is now farther away than the Moon, and is now the farthest object ever sent into space by India. Chandrayaan, the successful lunar probe/impactor mission launched in 2008, was previously the furthest. Still a long way to go to reach Martian orbit.


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Congratulations to whole team.

Looking forward for a successful Mars orbit initiation. I suppose that will be a more challenging stage due to distance and length of communication line.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 32, posted (10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4802 times:

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 30):
Still a long way to go to reach Martian orbit.

How long......durationwise theoritically.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2353 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4790 times:
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Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 32):
How long......durationwise theoritically.

The engine burn to enter Martian orbit should happen about September 24th. So a bit less than 10 months.


User currently offlinebond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 34, posted (10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

Quoting blrsea (Reply 12):
Can you please specify the countries offering "billions of dollars" of aid every year to India? Would be interesting to see it  

"Over the last six years, India has received an average $4.3 billion a year from the World Bank through the IDA and the other lending programme, IBRD. "

" In the upcoming five years, India is expected to get $4.5 billion to $5 billion funds a year."

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...981095_1_ibrd-onno-ruhl-world-bank

That is without specific aid from individual countries.

Quoting india1 (Reply 10):
To the best of anyone's knowledge, no foreigh aid was redirected to this cost

Ok, but that's like me giving the guy on the street $10, then he buys some cigarettes, but says it wasn't my money, it was from the previous guy  

Hey, I'm just saying - it's a great achievement.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 33):
The engine burn to enter Martian orbit should happen about September 24th. So a bit less than 10 months.

Will there be any opportunity for course correction or too little(fuel) too late?


User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1309 posts, RR: 25
Reply 36, posted (10 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4751 times:
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ARTICLE EDITOR

I do think it is an impressive achievement so congrats to the team. Looking forward to it successfully achieving all the milestones.

Unfortunately, the nagging questions of the other troubling social issues facing the India take the shine of this impressive achievement due to the $ value associated with this endeavor  



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2353 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (10 months 23 hours ago) and read 4728 times:
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Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 35):
Will there be any opportunity for course correction or too little(fuel) too late?

I don't know their flight plan, but they've certainly budgeted for at least a couple of mid-course correction burns during that ten month cruise. But those will just adjust the course to get the spacecraft in position for the deceleration Martian orbital insertion burn.

Obviously they have a maximum available delta-V for course correction burns, if they use too much fuel they won't have enough left to enter orbit (plus they’ll probably want some delta-V for fiddling the orbit later). OTOH, there's a trade-off between delta-V and time. Right now a given change of course (as to where it passes the target), is going to be about a tenth as costly in terms of fuel as it would be one month from Mars. So if they're significantly off course, you'd expect burns soon to get closer to the planned course (right now a mere 1m/s would move the spacecraft some 25,000km at the point where it reaches Mars; in late August you'd need 10m/s for the same change).

So there would be a maximum amount of Earth orbit departure error you could correct for, and the amount decreases as you delay making that correction. Of course a large error should be easier to detect now.


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (10 months 17 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 37):

Thank you. As always your posts are very enlightening.

Quoting eksath (Reply 36):
Unfortunately, the nagging questions of the other troubling social issues facing the India take the shine of this impressive achievement due to the $ value associated with this endeavor

On the social aspect Indians benefit a lot with space research. In last few weeks there were three cyclones (Cat-5,Cat-1,Tropical Storm) with only handful of casualties. As costal areas have fishing communities live in straw built huts, without warning and evacuation deaths will be in tens of thousands. In 1977 Cat-3 cyclone 50,000 died and 3.4 Million lost their homes.

Compare these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Phailin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Helen_(2013)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Lehar

To this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Andhra_Pradesh_cyclone

Lot of people are not aware but most of the maps we use daily are taken by ISRO's imaging satellites. Because most of their product is commercial grade, they sell images to Digital Globe, in turn ends up in consumer maps and navigation products. Not sure if US NRO sells any images because they are very high resolution military grade.

It also launched many commercial satellites for others. ISRO has been very active with universities through out the world in launching nano/cube sats built by students. Universities world wide love that option.

So all in all it is a success story.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6489 posts, RR: 3
Reply 39, posted (10 months 3 hours ago) and read 4607 times:

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 8):
However, I'd caution against calling this a "success" until the probe reaches Mars orbit successfully.

Indeed. The Mars Curse has befallen spacecraft at points beginning at launch all the way to landing.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 40, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Quoting bond007 (Reply 34):
"Over the last six years, India has received an average $4.3 billion a year from the World Bank through the IDA and the other lending programme, IBRD. "

" In the upcoming five years, India is expected to get $4.5 billion to $5 billion funds a year."

These are loans, not aid. Every cent of that is paid back. You get large loans from the IBRD and IDA when you demonstrate a continued level of creditworthiness and ability to repay in full on or ahead of time. This is no different from student financial aid via grants vs student loans.

As an analogy, if you have a bunch of credit cards, are you getting financial aid from American Express, Chase, JP Morgan or whoever happens to be the issuing bank ? It isn't. It's a form of capital utilization.

The reason for the utilization of such loans is that the WB has the liquidity to disburse a large capital loan at low cost, an exercise that would otherwise strain a less developed domestic banking system without the capital base to support all the needs of a fast growing economy - a critical need for growth is cheap capital.

Here's a pertinent article on the topic:
http://bosco.foreignpolicy.com/posts...ndia_too_rich_for_world_bank_loans
Is India Too Rich for World Bank Loans?

For decades, India has been one of the largest recipients of World Bank loans. By most accounts, the relationship between the massive democracy and the global lender has been mutually beneficial. India gets billions in very low-interest loans with long repayment plans while the Bank is able to disburse loans to a reasonably well-run government it knows well. Just last week, the Bank announced a new $100 million program to help low-income families secure housing loans. In the last fiften yeears, the Bank has provided more than a billion dollars to India for water and sanitation projects alone.

But there's a hitch: India is getting too wealthy for many World Bank loans.

The Bank's lending arm for poor states, the International Development Association (IDA), has an eligiblity threshold based on Gross National Income (GNI) per capita. This year, the cutoff is $1205. According to the Bank, India's GNI per capita now exceeds $1500.

Fortunately for India, the application of this threshold is not mechanical. For several years now, the Bank has classified India as a "blend" country that is eligible for both IDA money and loans designed for creditworthy middle-income countries.


The fact is, this is a mutually beneficial arrangement. India is a reliable borrower with a huge need for cheap capital. The World Bank desperately needs customers like India to make money for itself.

Small $50-200million aid inputs like those from UK are essentially pointless in a large country like India today. They are hard to manage and audit independently, outside of official social support programs. What India utilizes most, is access to cheap capital, such as JICA loans that were used to construct the Delhi Metro.

This may be new to members here:
http://www.business-standard.com/art...-out-euro-zone-112062002002_1.html
India pledges $10 bn to IMF to bail out Euro zone



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 41, posted (9 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 38):
On the social aspect Indians benefit a lot with space research. In last few weeks there were three cyclones (Cat-5,Cat-1,Tropical Storm) with only handful of casualties. As costal areas have fishing communities live in straw built huts, without warning and evacuation deaths will be in tens of thousands. In 1977 Cat-3 cyclone 50,000 died and 3.4 Million lost their homes.

You don't even need to go that far back. Phailin hit almost exactly the same spot at the 1999 cyclone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Odisha_cyclone

Back then, 11,000 people died. This time around when Phailin, which generated an even bigger storm surge, hit, the toll was 45. The difference was early warnings from the IMD using ISROs satellites, combined with the fact that most people have a cellphone and could be contacted with evacuation orders.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4339 times:

The first of the four Trajectory Correction Maneuvers (TCM) would be carried out on December 11.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/fi...vre-planned-for-december-11-456710

https://www.facebook.com/isromom


User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4202 times:

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/sci...on-mars-orbiter/article5446749.ece

Went well, apparently.



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 44, posted (1 week 4 days 14 hours 5 minutes ago) and read 1707 times:

The Mangalyaan Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) craft is due enter Mars orbit on the 24th of September, on schedule. So far, ISRO indicates everything is normal on board. On the 22nd, ISRO will turn on the color cameras on board Mangalyaan to transmit video imagery.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 week 4 days 7 hours 26 minutes ago) and read 1617 times:
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Has been any pre braking burn testing been done of late? Results?

Best of luck MOM!



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User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 46, posted (1 week 2 days 3 hours 42 minutes ago) and read 1318 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 45):
Has been any pre braking burn testing been done of late? Results?
http://zeenews.india.com/news/sci-te...rs-main-liquid-engine_1474012.html
India successfully test fires Mars Orbiter's main liquid engine
ISRO's twitter feed
https://twitter.com/isro/status/513980079169232896/photo/1

India's Mars Orbiter Mission tested its last manoeuvre around 2.30pm Monday when the main liquid engine of the spacecraft was fired for 4 seconds. The craft’s 440 Newton Liquid Apogee Motor engine which had been idle for 300 days since the spacecraft left the Earth's orbit on a Martian trajectory on December 1, 2013, had a perfect burn for four seconds as planned.

The engine was test fired for 3.968 seconds with fuel consumption of about 0.567 kg and with a decremental velocity of 2.142 meters/second. The test was to make sure that the engine is in good shape for the 24-minute manoeuvre on Wednesday.

With this success, ISRO now gears up for the D-day, 24th September. With the engine firing confirmed, MOM can now go ahead with their plan for the Mars orbit insertion without any hurdle.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 week 15 hours 43 minutes ago) and read 1007 times:
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Yesssss! Enters Mars orbit successfully...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...d-Planet/newsliveblog/43284945.cms


User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 week 15 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 1005 times:

Wonderful job. Mileage cost for the craft is less than taking a taxi.

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 49, posted (1 week 15 hours 25 minutes ago) and read 1002 times:

Congratulations to the ISRO! Getting something of this magnitude right on the very first try, on a shoestring project budget that was executed within 14 months of clearance, is incredible!

Some Martian chatter:
http://i59.tinypic.com/244pb91.png



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User currently offlineWingsFan From India, joined Oct 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 week 15 hours 14 minutes ago) and read 989 times:

Phenomenal achievement!

I am sure the Indian mission benefited from the lessons learned during failures and successes of other nation's attempts. Yet, achieving success in the maiden attempt is something all the participants should be proud of.


WingsFan


User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 week 12 hours 39 minutes ago) and read 955 times:
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Quoting brahmin (Reply 48):
Wonderful job. Mileage cost for the craft is less than taking a taxi.

Yep, you're bang on... 74 Million bucks (USD) to Mars is some achievement! Customised lo-cost hi-tech such as on display in this program is what can take India forward in huge leaps


User currently offlinedtw2hyd From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 week 8 hours 35 minutes ago) and read 916 times:

Congratulations India. When are they planning to turn on payloads and when can we see some pictures?

User currently offlinetexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 week 5 hours 42 minutes ago) and read 862 times:

As an American of Indian origin, I am usually the first to criticize India and especially Air India. Over the years, it certainly has rubbed the folks over at Airliners India the wrong way, lol!

Having said that, today is a great day for India and my heart swells with pride. Most comments today should not be that India is spending unnecessary money when its millions go without potable water or clean toilets. Rather, it should be said that a rapidly developing world power achieved a momentous space goal on its first attempt DESPITE all the problems of poverty.

Look, India has many problems.....too many to list here. It is way underserved by its incompetent and corrupt politicians, and the general bureaucracy is hostile to honest business investment and infrastructure. But, at the same time, one cannot take away the outstanding achievement by India today. Go India.

P.S. What makes this achievement even better is that ISRO is full of South Indians, especially Tamils and Kerala people. Just wanted my Indian friends (you know who you are!!) to know that!!



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User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (1 week 3 hours 51 minutes ago) and read 823 times:

More data is available from the Mangalyaan craft. The original plan was for a 6-9 month mission, based on an estimated 25kg fuel load after Mars orbit insertion. However, the orbit insertion was so precise that two of the four burns were not required. As a result, Mangalyaan has 45kg of fuel on board after it completed Mars orbit insertion. The ISRO may therefore substantially increase the mission life, or pursue more ambitious stretch goals.

Quoting WingsFan (Reply 50):
I am sure the Indian mission benefited from the lessons learned during failures and successes of other nation's attempts. Yet, achieving success in the maiden attempt is something all the participants should be proud of.

From open source information, yes. But collaborative learning, not at all. Keep in mind that the ISRO was on the State Department's Entities List until 2011 or 2012, which means they faced technological sanctions for over a decade, until recently. Even more credit to the ISRO for accomplishing what they did, despite deliberate obstructionism by outsiders.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 55, posted (6 days 13 hours 4 minutes ago) and read 684 times:

First pic released on the ISRO twitter feed



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (6 days 3 hours 59 minutes ago) and read 582 times:

If it got down to 7.3k m, that will also be it's last photo.
Even if it was using aerobraking, you wouldn't want to get below 100km.
If the 375m resolution is right, the altitude is probably around 7300 km. It will get as low as 420 km in it's highly eccentric orbit and should get much sharper pictures in the future.

[Edited 2014-09-25 09:33:22]


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinedtw2hyd From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (6 days 3 hours 4 minutes ago) and read 560 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 56):
If it got down to 7.3km, that will also be it's last photo.

Good catch though. Per ISRO site it was from 7300 km. Probably a cropped image with most of it being out of focus. There is one more pic from 8449 km.

One orbit takes about 72 hours. So in 3 days we can see more close-up shots.


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 58, posted (6 days 2 hours 55 minutes ago) and read 558 times:

Yes, subsequent messages indicate 7.3K km . The extra K probably got lost between the engineer and the twitter feed guy.

Several pictures have been taken, with data received both on the Indian DSN and showing up on the NASA DSN Now site. I wish they'd publicize all the photos quickly. Some bureaucratic procedures just don't change. They can complete and launch this within a year but can't release pictures two days later.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlinedtw2hyd From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (5 days 8 hours 33 minutes ago) and read 422 times:

Is there a possibility MAVEN, MOM and Mars Express can get a pic of each other?

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2237 posts, RR: 6
Reply 60, posted (1 day 16 hours 9 minutes ago) and read 152 times:

Mangalyaan returned this stunning photograph of a global view of Mars from its apoapsis:
http://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/images/4-mars/2014/20140929_1669791_1557930277763662_2002345568908420485_o.jpg



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
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