Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Figher Planes Would Have Been Available?  
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

Hey guys, trying to figure out what Air Superiority fighters would have been available for use in 1958-1960 by the new air force of a developing country.

Figure that the ground attack mission will be going to F-100D's but am still trying to look for a good air superiourity fighter or interceptor.

Want to stay with US or Western Aircraft, non-warsaw pact.

Any help will be much appreciated.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4018 times:

Saab J35 Draken came into service around that time.

Staffan


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

A good portion of the USAF's "century series" would have been available: the F-101B Voodoo, F-102 Delta Dagger, F-104 Starfighter , F-106 Delta Dart were all either in production or on the market in the time period you describe.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

In that time, you're thinking F84 (maybe -86), MiG-15 and -17, Vampire and Venom.
Maybe MiG-19, F-104 and J-35 if you had a lot of money.

The 102, 106 and 101 were not for export, having a nuclear role.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

Actually the F-101's where exported to Canada.

So I might consider that one a possiblity, since it would have a simular role.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineCheshire From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

the British Lightning......and the Phantom flew in '61.....

User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

The British were still big in aviation around that time so a good candidate for a developing country would have been the Gloster Javelin.

Here's some photos:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/javelin/pics01.shtml


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3822 times:

Wheren't Javelin's only operated by the RAF?

I would like to try and find something that was at least exported a little, to add credibility to the timeline.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTrident3 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

the Hawker Hunter would have been the UK's main export fighter of the time. They were used in many countries
http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/hunter/
Some good links on that site for other British cold war jets.



"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3773 times:


Hi!

Just another fighter that mostly is forgotten, the Republic F-105 Thunderchief, it was a great airplane and very original.
Regards


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3774 times:

L-188 was looking for an air superiority fighter/interceptor. The Thud was decidedly neither of those.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

Only now do I realize that I misspelled Fighter in the topic....D'oh


I am starting to lean toward an order for F-8 Crusaders that would come a couple years after 1959 and the initial order of F-100D's.

The F-105 is a great airplane but it runs into the problem that it was never exported and for the time frame, I think that most of them would have been retained for Nam.

The Hawker Hunter is also a possiblity.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

F-8's not bad, but fwiw, I would have gone with the F-104, considering it was more widely exported.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

I was thinking F-104 but aren't they a bit shorter legged then the F-8


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

The Crusader was a good plane, with, in later models, a fairly decent load carrying capability for a light fighter. Armament could include 4X20mm cannon, 2 or 4 AIM-9 sidewinders on fuselage pylons (depending on if the "Y" adapter was used) and on later models, 2 underwing pylons each carrying a Bullpup missile or up to 6 MK82 bombs. RF-8 models also available, but unlike the F-104, I don't think there were any 2 seat trainers produced. I'll check my references though, TF-8 sounds sorta kinda familiar. If you want a REAL interceptor (that never got into production) try the Crusader III. Recessed sparrows in the fuselage, and very good performance, unfortunately it lost the Navy contract to the F-4.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3716 times:

I'll compare base models (F-104A to F-8A), info from Joe Baugher's online Encylopedia http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/

Chance-Vought F8-U1 (F-8A) :
Engine - One Pratt & Whitney J57-P-4A/-12 turbojet, 10,000 lb.s.t. dry, 16,200 lb.s.t. with afterburning.

Maximum speed: 1013 mph (Mach 1.53) at 35,000 feet, 733 mph at sea level.
Initial climb rate: 20,000 feet per minute.
Service ceiling: 42,300 feet.
Combat ceiling: 51,500 feet.
Combat radius: 389 miles, maximum combat range 1474 miles.
Armament: Four 20-mm Colt-Browning Mk-12 cannon with 144 rounds per gun. Two AIM-9A Sidewinder air-to-air missiles on fuselage cheek rails. A rocket pack carrying 32 2.75-inch folding-fin rockets could be fitted underneath the fuselage which was lowered with the speed brake.

Lockheed F-104A Starfighter
Engine: One General Electric J79-GE-3A/3B turbojet, 9600 lb.s.t. dry and 14,800 lb.s.t. with afterburning.

Maximum speed 1037 mph at 50,000 feet.
Initial climb rate: 60,395 feet per minute.
Service ceiling: 64,795 feet.
Combat ceiling: 55,200 feet.
Combat range: 730 miles, Maximum combat range 1400 miles (with drop tanks).
Armament: One 20-mm M61A1 cannon in the fuselage with 725 rounds, plus a pair of wingtip-mounted AIM-9B Sidewinder infrared homing air-to-air missiles.




South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

Wasn't the F-104 the US's first M2.0 fighter? I doubt that the speed of sound at 50kft is 518 mph.


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Wow.

Those two are closer matched then I would have imagined.

I guess I should start thinking of the F-104 again

For some reason I was thinking that it was pretty short legged.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

Lehpron, the F-104 was indeed a Mach 2 aircraft..at 35,000 ft, where it could travel at a max speed of Mach 2.2. But, to address how fast it could go at the stated 50,000 feet, the speed of sound at 50k is 573.8 knots or 660.3 mph. Thus, the max speed of the Starfighter at 50,000 feet was about Mach 1.57.

L-188, the match-up is closer and it takes a lot for me to say this considering I'm generally a fan of naval aviation, but I'd go with the F-104 based on how widely exported it was, considering Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Italy, Japan, Jordan, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Taiwan and Turkey all flew the Starfighter. To my knowledge, the only export sales of the F-8 were to the French and the Filipinos.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

but I'd go with the F-104 based on how widely exported

I will probably do the same, but there is something to be said for being different.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3676 times:

Perhaps the SAAB J32 Lansen, fully tested. The Draken was too new back then...

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

F-101 was allowed for export to Canada as part of Canada's role in NORAD and therefore the defense of North America against nuclear strike.
No other country was offered the aircraft even in a stripped version.

Indeed the F-8 was sold only to the Philipines and France.

Seeing as the scenario talks about a third world country, highend aircraft would be out of the question.
Those would simply be too expensive.
Therefore the most likely candidates would be in the F-5 class, or second hand aircraft of the previous generation.
F-84s, Hunters, etc. Maybe Sabres.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Well, I said, developing, not 3rd world.

Developing in 1959 would actually be for example, Taiwain and Korea. Once could consider most European nations 10 years earlier as "developing"

To me 3rd world would be something completely worse off.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

'58-'60 developing countries

just in production were the small, fast agile interceptors Mig21 and Mirage III.

Both became widely and succesfully exported to developing countries all over the world and fought / fight each other.



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

Problem is the Mirage III really didn't get over to developing nations until the mid to late 1960's

I thought of that one as a follow on though.

And the Mig-21 even the earlier examples probalby is just a wisker too modern too.

At that time I suspect that Mig-17's and 19's would have been the warsaw past aircraft of choice.

But since I am picturing this country aligned with the west more, I don't think the Mig is a viable alternative.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic What Figher Planes Would Have Been Available?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
How Long Would The US Have Been Giving Away F4U's posted Sun Oct 8 2006 08:47:57 by L-188
What Squadrons Have Been Deployed? posted Sat Sep 22 2001 00:08:58 by CX747
Could The 2707 Have Been Useful To The Military? posted Thu Aug 31 2006 01:14:46 by 747400sp
Military AC You Have Been In posted Thu Jan 30 2003 02:20:33 by CO 757 200
Space - What Would You Like To See? posted Wed Sep 20 2006 16:25:29 by RichardPrice
KC-777. What Would It Take For Wing Tip Booms? posted Sat Jul 15 2006 22:28:33 by Boeing Nut
Would A KC-747 Been Better Than A KC-10? posted Wed Jun 7 2006 22:17:39 by 747400sp
What Would Be A Good A4M Replacement? posted Sun May 29 2005 07:03:01 by L-188
What Planes Are Being Used In Afghanistan posted Fri Mar 1 2002 12:49:26 by Tommy the cat
F1 Racing Wwii Planes, What Do U Think? posted Sat Jan 19 2002 21:14:19 by Schreiner

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format