Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?  
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

I was thinking, all this recent talk to sonic bizjets that have to be small and able to fly sonically without a boom which are likely shaped differently that we are used to just to enable that kind of acceptance, why not create some outlandish design so when it passes sound it drags a wave that is maximized for absolute destruction?

That way there is no use of munitions or armament or significant mass loss due to dropping bombs or flying low like an attack plane -- little if any loss of pilot.

Just fly subsonically to target zone, accelerate and fly over target and then decelerate while leaving, how easy is that? I know it is not that easy, but what do you think? No need of real bombs or opening of bay doors to comprimise stealth, just violent pressure waves.


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Yes, perhaps an effective area weapon, but you destroy all in your path. The idea, especially now, is to limit collateral damage. This would be totally indescriminate...

Plus, what would it actually destroy? A non focused sonic boom would shatter windows, perhaps damage computers...but won't take down a solid building...


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

I think IAF does that when they do their wild weasel runs over Lebanon...

User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2923 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

Another advantage is that going supersonic at 200 feet (probably minimum safe altitude) will make it nearly impossible to be shot down. By the time they hear you, you're gone over the next hill. On the downside, fuel consumption would be tremendous for this mostly psychological operation. The U.S. started doing this with low flying F-16s after the most recent helicopter shoot-downs in Iraq.

This was proposed to be part of the flight profile for the Project Pluto nuclear ramjet cruise missile back in the 50s. Once it dropped its 16 nukes, it was to cruise over enemy territory for up to 3 months at mach 3 and low altitude. The sonic boom was to demoralize any survivors, and the radiation plse from the unshielded engine (not the radioactive exhaust) would do lots of damage.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

As a psych. weapon high speed/low altitude passes can be very effective, witness the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds "sneak" pass where they scare the hell out of the crowd who is not expecting it...



User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4926 times:

well the idea og Pentagon's QSP was to spread out the wave, I am sure there could be a way to focus it like a tornado path, so to speak.

Even if it just breaks glass or computer moniters, in the information age, isn't that hella bad?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

It has actually been used, in the real world.

Back in 1977 there was a hostage crisis... terrorists and hostages on a train. a pair of F-104s performed a low, supersonic overflight; this apparently disoriented/stunned the terrorists (and presumably broke a few of the train's windows), at which point the counterterrorist troops attacked.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4872 times:

Interesting tale there Bobrayner...I'd be curious to read more about this...is there anyplace online that tells the story in a bit more detail???

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4850 times:

Yeha Bob, come up with some more details.

Interesting tactic.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4846 times:

These?

http://militarynet.free-host.com/drenthe1977/drenthe1977.htm (nl)
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/bbe.htm (en)
Google doesn't reveal much more detail, and I'm too young to remember seeing this in newspapers!


[Edited 2003-11-24 04:39:02]


Cunning linguist
User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

That is a function that is now done with stun or flashbang grenades. Good concept, but difficult to employ from an airplane. (Timing etc is hard enough on a tactical mission like that.)

There has been talk of developing sound weapons that create sounds that in certain ranges will make people ill or disoriented but are non leathal. More for use in crowd control type situations as opposed to military attacks.


User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

During the 60's,70's and 80's,there were almost constantly Soviet "trawlers" ostensibly fishing in international waters very close to the Norwegian coast,very close to military installations.These trawlers bristled with antennas for electronic listening devices.A favorite trick of the F-104's of 331 Squadron was to do supersonic passes at the ships after which the ships quietly left the scene with practically all their radio tubes and valves having been broken due to the sonic boom.Fun!


"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Boy to bad solid state technology had to come along and ruin the Norwegians fun  Laugh out loud


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

Yup!
Life was not the same after that Laugh out loud
By that time,334 Sqn had received Canadian built CF-104's,and these had been equipped with anti-shipping missiles and were tasked with surveillance of the "trawlers" while 331 went on with their air-to-air role.



"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4204 times:

Yeah, great idea. ”Unless you demobilise your armed forces we’ll... we’ll... we’ll rattle your windows REAL BAD!”

Now there’s a weapon to end all wars.

A sonic boom is about as destructive as a big thunder clap. You’ll have to be real close to get a monitor damaged.

“Another advantage is that going supersonic at 200 feet (probably minimum safe altitude) will make it nearly impossible to be shot down. By the time they hear you, you're gone over the next hill.”

Radar...

Cheers,
Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4199 times:

Radar does not work properly to identify targets at low altitudes that can be mistaken as mountains, trees, hills, or even flocks of bird, despite the speed of the target. It is bad for a plane to be that low, they can be targeted easily, maintaining that lock is another story.

C'mon FredT have you not read the QSP report? Shape and size changes the boom, dramatically, PERIOD. Obviously now the goal is to make a bizjet that will do 1000 knots overland without incident, but it should be possible to reverse that approach to forcibly create a large boom from an outlandishly shaped vehicle (that likely will have tremendous drag consequently) that will do the same job as a carpet-bomber without wasting weapons (that can otherwise be used in precision strikes provided they had the homing attachment up front, otherwise they are just gravity bombs).

You just have no faith when it comes to sonics, huh?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy What's your specialization in AE?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 3958 times:

Well I think its an incedibly cool idea. Our military should always be thinking outside the box and adding the latest technology.

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2208 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

The Indian Air Force used MiG-25 Foxbats from the old Trisonics reconnaissance squadron to do high-altitude overflights over Pakistan at >Mach 2.5 on a few occasions over the years, not as an explicit weapon but good old 'catch us if you can' psychological warfare.

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/FOXB.HTM
http://users.senet.com.au/~wingman/recce1.html

The Foxbats have since been retired and mil-sats are now used.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3822 times:

The record for low altitude, high speed flight....:

1961 August 28 world speed record for three kilometers at less than 100meters altitude, 907.769 mph at Holloman AFB Lt. Huntington Hardisty USN, pilot and Lt. Earl H. DeEsch USN, RIO.

Impossible to shoot down something going that fast? "Sea Wiz".... easy....


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2923 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

I'm assuming that was in a F4H1 or some other PhantomII derivative? I think the first 11 were used for record breaking attempts.


The last of the famous international playboys
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Whats Going To Happen To The Boom Operator posted Sun Jul 22 2001 14:57:37 by Galaxy5
Air Force One To Changi? posted Sun Nov 12 2006 11:17:31 by Shinkai
US Senate Approves Selling 100 F-35's To Turkey posted Thu Nov 9 2006 11:30:01 by Wing
First To Fly The PC-21 - Singapore Air Force posted Fri Nov 3 2006 18:05:15 by Airimages
Boeing To Begin Ground Testing X48B posted Mon Oct 30 2006 10:11:16 by DEVILFISH
Orion 13 Might Be First Manned Return To Moon posted Fri Oct 27 2006 08:32:51 by AerospaceFan
"direct" Alternative To Ares I/Ares V posted Fri Oct 27 2006 07:20:10 by DfwRevolution
Bulgaria May Have Solution To Helo RPG Threat posted Fri Oct 20 2006 14:44:06 by Lumberton
Air Force One Comes To RIC! posted Thu Oct 19 2006 19:06:24 by Fbgdavidson
NZ Army Puts Spy Planes To The Test posted Thu Oct 19 2006 11:32:13 by 777ER

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format