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Thunderchickens To Perform Over San Diego Beach...  
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Posted (11 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5565 times:

April 17th and 18th 2004.

What Beach????????????????????

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Hey Navy boy, you wern't trying to bait me with the title were ya? If so, it worked.  Big grin

It will be nice for the people of San Diego to see some real aviators and the best flying team out there. I'm sure they are tired of having to see the 3rd string team, the Blue Princesses.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

Everyone knows a naval aviator in a Cessna 152 can put on a better show than the Taurus.......sorry I mean Thunderbirds.  Big grin

User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

Outstanding. Another crack smoking A.net member!  Big grin

Maybe you and Maiznblu can get together, swab the deck, and tell myths about Naval Aviation and how their pilots are better than the Air Force's. We all know its all about the USAF.  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

".......how their pilots are better than the Air Force's."

You said it not me.  Big grin


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

Myths my man myths.  Laugh out loud

User currently offlineHamfist From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5354 times:

As a fellow USAF-type, I've got to vote for the home team and say the T-birds are the standard.

However, if I had my choice of which to fly for, I'd be a Blue. The T-birds are WAY too consumed with image and acting the part. I'm convinced these guys don't leave the house in the morning until every hair on their head is parted exactly in accordance with their unwritten social instruction manual.

The Blue's carry themselves more in the tradition of old-school aviators with a nice balance of bravado and respect for their spectators. They just seem to be more relaxed and truly love what they do.


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 days ago) and read 5330 times:

Hamfist,
this says it all

TIGHTER IS ALWAYS BETTER!

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Photo © Allan Rossmore




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Photo © Shawn Byers




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Photo © Tom Turner





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Photo © Manas Barooah



User currently offlineHamfist From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

There's always something to be said for tighter...

But once you pick a position, the real story is in how well you maintain the integrity of the formation you have chosen. In the numerous times I've seen these teams, the T'birds always seem to maintain their formations much more crisp and more gracefully switch from one formation to the next. The Blues get their props from having more of a barnburning style with stunt-like maneuvers.


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

I wonder if this has anything to do with the opening of the Midway Museum? Its opening in April. I dunno.

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5305 times:

I just saw the T-Birds again while I was at Langley this week for the 100th anv. of flight. IT was interesting to see the Snowbirds on the ramp next to T-Birds, next to our E-3, next to KC-10s and C-21s, with two F/A-22s and boucoup F-15Cs- good times indeed.

I agree the Blue Angels do barnstorm better than the T-Birds- that is what they are known for- low and tight, while the T-Birds do many more formations especially using all 6 a/c.

As for the pilots, well I've said it before I'll say it again, the Navy has more Class A mishaps than the Air Force, and many many more HATRs, those are the facts, but it is often easier to work with Navy pilots as they use and defer to Command and control better than Air Force pilots- especially F-15Cs, who think they can work on their own, then in OIF we sent them home early  Smile/happy/getting dizzy as they were useless.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

Lt-Awacs:

Of course the Navy has a higher Class A mishap rate. They have to contend with things the Air Force does not. Such as cold cats, snapped arresting wires, or trying to land on a postage stamp in the middle of the night.

Guess you don't need me telling you this but since E-2C Hawkeyes are an integral part of the CAG the fighter/attack crews spend a lot of time working with them. In was my squadron in the Navy shared a hanger with the CAG E-2C unit. Makes for close relations.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

Sorry, I meant to say "In fact my squadron in the Navy shared a hanger with the CAG E-2C unit."

User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 day ago) and read 5284 times:

Of course the Navy has a higher Class A mishap rate. They have to contend with things the Air Force does not. Such as cold cats, snapped arresting wires, or trying to land on a postage stamp in the middle of the night.

A common misconception. Close scrutiny of USN Aviation Mishap Rates [1950s-1983] showed CV related mishaps significantly less likely than land-based mishaps... we're safer at sea than on land. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it myself--in the first hour of the first class of ASO course at Naval Post-Graduate School. Would be significantly higher if USN hadn't adopted [plagerized] the USAF's aviation safety and maintenance programs a few decades ago --thanks guys.  Big thumbs up




*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (11 years 21 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

LT. Awacs,

Try getting authorization to land your big birds on a 6500ft runway. TVC has had Navy E6's doing touch n goes there in the past. We also have had the E6A familiarization bird, a big 707 with the old engines.. Bottom line, Navy pilots have more balls.



User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 21 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

AAR90:

Guess I should made the point that when you combine the at sea and land based mishaps they are higher than the USAF.


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (11 years 21 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

LMP737,

True, but my point was that when you remove the sea-based operations from the USN figures, USN consistently maintains a higher mishap rate than does the USAF. Granted, NPGS aviation safety courses are probably biased --show the need for and success of ASO program-- but those trends remain. While attending NPGS I attempted to segregate just the TacAir statistics for comparison, but that was just too complex for the limited time/resources available back then. My theory was that while USN was proven to be more mishap prone ashore, the USAF's much higher volumn of transport type operations skewed their mishap rate lower [MR = mishaps/flight hours]. I recall seeing a [USN] Safety Center document in early 1990's that actually performed similar calculations [don't know the exact study years] concluding that similar type operations by both services had similar mishap rates [USN normally slightly higher rate than USAF]. Try as we might, never seemed to catch 'em.  Angry For those of us in Aviation Safety, that was always the goal.  Crying OTOH, USN seemed to always beat USAF in number of mishaps that made it to a Federal Courtroom each year.  Nuts



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (11 years 14 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

Our old F-4 Tech rep used to tell us about how the Blues developed a maneuver where one A-4 would roll inverted with it's gear up, and another would lower it's gear, then "land" all three gear onto the A-4 flying below it. The two aircraft flying as one. According to him, and he showed us a picture of it once, they actually got pretty good at doing it and were going to put it into the routine.

Until the FAA found out.

I've seen the Thunderbirds, nice, but most of the stuff was too high up. I like the Blues bringing it right down to the people.

I would have loved to see the T-birds flying these...

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Photo © Jeff Miller



This one was not a real T-bird.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

Work with a guy that was Air Force in Thailand during Nam.

At the time the Navy was launching from the carrier, doing a strike, landing at his base, rearming-refueling, then flying a second strike on the way back to the carrier for the night.

He said that they where constantly pulling Navy aircraft out of the weeds. Apparently since they where flying traps constantly they forgot how to keep an aircraft on a runway during a normal landing, they just didn't know how to use the rudder pedals.

Also say they where constantly landing with the tailhook down, which does a wonder to it getting drug down 3000 feet of pavement. Worse they kept snaggin the air force barriers, which was ok with the two middle ones since they where designed to work in both directions. The threshold ones where another matter since they where just a length of cable stretched between two very heavy chains shaped in a big "U" facing away from the threshold. If they hit the one on the end of the runway they where overrunning and the hook would pick the cable up and then progressively pull the links of the chain up as it went farther off the end of the runway.

If they hit that barrier going the other way, they where pulling on that umpteen ton chain all and once and they ripped their aircraft in half.


I will say this about ex-Navy pilots. They generally consistently follow marshaller instructions to the letter and the wave. Some pilots don't. I guess if you are being parked on a deck, not obeying the marshallers instructions can have some very wet consequences.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Actually Hero I have two cats and two traps on C-2 and E-2 on the Lincoln.
Nothing Special.

Fact remains the Navy is more dangerous on land than sea, as noted above. It also Has more HATRs with Giant Killer on the East Coast and Vacapes. Not to mention in Saudi. The fact an F-18 rolled up on an E-3 for gas just ads to the laughs.

F-14s and E-2s working fleet defence is not what I am talking about re: AEW as E-2s did not carry out TST during OIF. Different discussion for a different board. Also being the E-3 is 80,000lbs heavier than the E-6 with older TF-33 engines, I am sure our ACs will stick with 8k feet, and that is fine with me.

Maybe if the Navy jumped on the Crew Rest train as Corona suggested in 2000 things would get better.

Remember Bombers win wars, Fighters make movies- And the war doesn't start to the Fat Kids fly.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Texas-It's bigger than France


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Lt-Awacs:

If I didn't know any better I would say you seem to take pleasure in the Navy's accident rate.

If you remove carrier ops and USAF transport category aircraft from the equation like AAR90 mentioned the accident rates would be similar. One more thing, I'm sure you could come up with some stories on stupid things air force pilots have done.

P.S. When you had your two cat/traps were you flying the aircraft?


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

No, he was riding in the back...


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

When you had your two cat/traps were you flying the aircraft?

Reminds me of the time the E2 community was running so low on pilots [too many flunking out during CQ] that we tried training NFO's to ride right seat as "safety pilots." Best summed up by the very senior [soon to be CO] commander whom I had the honor of taking aboard Big-E on his first right seat trap:

NOPE!!! NO WAY!!! NEVER AGAIN!!! I just want to sit in the back, look out my porthole and see water...water...water...steel...crash.

JT got up and left having failed to "qualify" by just 3 more traps. Then again, we never did qualify any of the dozen experienced NFO's who volunteered for the program. Eventually even the "brass" figured out that idea wasn't going to work and the program was dropped soon after.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5198 times:

"No, he was riding in the back..."

No kid actually I was in the right front seat.
Thanks for asking though.

I never said anything about the Navy or Air FOrce other than to point out the facts. Pure and simple.

Thanks for reading.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineGocaps16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4363 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (10 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

I wouldn't think the Thunderchickens to be performing for the opening of the USS Midway. Why would the Air Force do such as show for Midway and probably most likely it will happen over Coronado Beach and not disrupt the flight path traffic from Lindbergh.

When I was flying on the C-9 Skytrain from NAS Oceana, VA to Forbes Field in Topeka, KS to NAS North Island, we did a impressive landing, flying over Coronado Beach making the swooping right turn to align the runway at NAS North Island. And it's even more fun when you're on jumpseat.

Kevin

[Edited 2003-12-22 04:38:15]


SIX T'S!......TURN. TIME. TWIST. THROTTLE. TALK. TRACK.
25 Post contains images JeffM : No kid actually I was in the right front seat. What ever ...It just appears you like to ride in the back. Don't get your little silver bars in a WAD..
26 Lt-AWACS : Look kid, I don't care if you asked or not, facts are facts. "And to be perfectly clear... I didn't ask." you were incorrect, now we have fixed the pr
27 Post contains images 2912n : Ahhh, the classic E-8 vs O-3 debate.
28 Post contains images AAR90 : Ahhh, the classic E-8 vs O-3 debate. Nah, the classic Navy v. Air Force v. Army v..... service rivalry. Cute and nice to see it remains alive & well.
29 JeffM : Seems the little "wet behind the ears" Lt. has a complex of some sort....? I couldn't care less about those statistics. All I know is no pilot ever di
30 LMP737 : AAR90: The Navy must really have been desperate for someone in the right seat to put NFO's there. God bless NFO's, without them the F-14, E-2 and EA-6
31 Post contains images AAR90 : The Navy must really have been desperate for someone in the right seat to put NFO's there. An understatement. My squadron was down to just 7 pilots at
32 JeffM : It used to be if you had "tits or a camera" your chances of a ride were good. . Most of my rides involved a broke jet at one end... ....I always just
33 2912n : According to my new copy of Pacific Flyer the T-Birds will be flying over the ocean with show center at the State Beach on the Silver Strand. Tbirds w
34 Maiznblu_757 : Ok.. Lets end this.. Everyone knows the Blues are more exciting than the T Birds... They are both good, the Blues are better. Thats all that needs to
35 Maiznblu_757 : Read on an airshow website, this will be an "Air and Sea Show" with over 1 million people expected. Dont know where they are going to park on the Stra
36 KROC : Ok.. Lets end this.. Everyone knows the Blues are more exciting than the T Birds... They are both good, the Blues are better. Thats all that needs to
37 Maiznblu_757 : And here is an email I got from the ED of Pacific Flyer.... Chad: We are the only newspaper to have anything about it. The story is featured on page A
38 Post contains images KROC : The Blue Angels at Miramar in October. The best for last.
39 Post contains images Maiznblu_757 : Using what I mastered back on me..
40 Lehpron : Why over a beach, they can't land on a carrier in an emergency, aren't they landlovers? Better not be near La Jolla... "and tell myths about Naval Avi
41 Covert : BTW, the ARMY airforce dropped the nukes, not the USAF. Yeah but where is that Army Air Force today?
42 L-188 : Actually it was the Army Air Corps....Not Army Air Force.
43 Covert : Exactly...
44 Lt-AWACS : No the Army Air Corps changed to the Army Air Force in 1941. It was the USAAF. Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns, Capt-AWACS, Uncle Sam's AWAX-The best shine f
45 Post contains images KROC : Good call L.T. Someone might want to go and make sure L-188 isn't swinging from the Shower Rod.
46 Srbmod : Actually Army Air Corps and Army Air Force are both acceptable names and historically were used interchangably. The Army Air Corps was one part of Arm
47 Lt-AWACS : actually the Air Corps basically became a division within the US Army Air Force after 1941. Until the Nat. Security Act of 1947 created the US Air For
48 Maiznblu_757 : Good call L.T. Someone might want to go and make sure L-188 isn't swinging from the Shower Rod. Congrats, you get advanced to the next paygrade. Way t
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