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Saint-Exupery's P-38 Found  
User currently offlinePilawt From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 101 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10712 times:

Sixty years after it disappeared, the P-38 flown by famed aviation author Antoine de Saint-Exupery has been discovered, submerged off the coast of Provence.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,116492,00.html

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineImisspiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6340 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10637 times:

It appears that nobody knows who Antoine de Saint-Exupery was. Besides being a great airman he was a great author. I wonder how much wonder would have been created to this day if he had lived.

I equate his writings with those of Rick Drury and Ernest Gann in tone and substance.



Damn, this website is getting worse daily.
User currently offlineSaint-Exupery From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10584 times:

Oh, there it was all the time ! I've been looking for it for years !

[Edited 2004-04-08 09:22:10]

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17177 posts, RR: 66
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10542 times:

What do you mean nobody knows who he was? I know! I know! Big grin


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10489 times:

Just being nit picky, but Saint-Exupery was flying a Lockheed F-5, the photo recon version of the P-38.

Saint-Exupery was the poet of aviation. His books, though technically not poetry, expressed the emotions and sensations of flying in a way that even those who have not flown can share in their imaginations.

I believe that he was 44 years old when he and his airplane disappeared.

I am not very good at pronunciating French words and names; can someone give me the phonetic (in English or American) way to correctly pronounce Saint-Exupery?

Thanks


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10413 times:

Besides being a poet he was also a pioneer of flight. He was very much involved in trying out new routes in Africa and South America, esp. crossing the Andes with single engine, wood and fabric mail biplanes. His famous book "Le petit prince" (the little prince) was written after an emergency landing in the middle of the Sahara desert and his book "Vol du Nuit" (Night Flight) describes the pioneering work in South America, bringing mail from Argentina to Chile.
During WW2 he served with the Free French Airforce.

Jan


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 9706 times:



Quoting Broke (Reply 4):
I am not very good at pronunciating French words and names; can someone give me the phonetic (in English or American) way to correctly pronounce Saint-Exupery?

I believe that would be "San xupery" ..or quite similar to how it is written.


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 9697 times:



Quoting Imisspiedmont (Reply 1):
It appears that nobody knows who Antoine de Saint-Exupery was.

He is very famous in France to the extent that he used to appear on 50Franc banknotes until the introduction of the Euro. In the past some people have suggested that he may have committed suicide in his P38 Lightning.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9533 times:

He's famous around the world as the writer of Le Petite Prince among other works. He was a pioneer on South American postal routes, and a flier in WWII. The rumors of his death being a suicide are generally started and spread by gossips intent on casting doubts on anything they can.

Saint Ex will be forever a flying poet in the hearts of his readers.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9486 times:

It seems there are alot of long lost P-38's being found with the one on the beach in Wales, what is the condition of Saint Exupery,s


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9408 times:



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 9):
It seems there are alot of long lost P-38's being found with the one on the beach in Wales, what is the condition of Saint Exupery,s

I don't know, but I imagine it must be in a museum somewhere in France by now. ...I am curious to know where?


User currently offlineZuluLima From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 338 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9327 times:



Quoting Broke (Reply 4):
Saint-Exupery was the poet of aviation. His books, though technically not poetry, expressed the emotions and sensations of flying in a way that even those who have not flown can share in their imaginations.

I've been meaning to find a copy of Airman's Odyssey. Anyone familiar with it?

Good times lately for twin-boom fans. The Welsh beach-bird looks a bit worse for wear and I expect St. Ex's plane to be much the same, but after the restoration job on Glacier Girl, I guess anything's possible. Must be hundreds of WWII planes off the coasts of Europe. If only a fraction were able to be repaired and exhibited it would fill a few museums at least.



I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 9261 times:



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 10):
Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 9):
It seems there are alot of long lost P-38's being found with the one on the beach in Wales, what is the condition of Saint Exupery,s

I don't know, but I imagine it must be in a museum somewhere in France by now. ...I am curious to know where?

They might have left it there. After all it is a war grave, similar to sunken ships.

Jan


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9247 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
They might have left it there. After all it is a war grave, similar to sunken ships.

Jan

You might be right, I didn't think of that.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 9109 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
They might have left it there. After all it is a war grave, similar to sunken ships.

I do believe that some of the remains of that aircraft raised and I don't know about their whereabouts. There is a story of an unidentifiable body in a pilot's flight suit being washed ashore and buried in southern France, but the story may be aprocryphal.

The remains of this airplane where not complete, and there wouldn't be enough to restore to display condition if that was an option.

The distinct possibility of the aircrafts oxygen system not working is present, as that would explain his flying off course and crashing, as he was definitely flying a reconnaissance bird and may have been at high altitude. A similar event caused the loss of golfer Payne Stewart when his Lear jet lost pressurization.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9100 times:



Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 11):

I've been meaning to find a copy of Airman's Odyssey. Anyone familiar with it?

I just saw it for sale on Amazon.com ...Might get a copy myself. ...Think I read "Night Flight" a lot of years ago.


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9072 times:



Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
The distinct possibility of the aircrafts oxygen system not working is present, as that would explain his flying off course and crashing, as he was definitely flying a reconnaissance bird and may have been at high altitude. A similar event caused the loss of golfer Payne Stewart when his Lear jet lost pressurization.

There are numerous examples even in our day and age of accidents like the one to Payne Stewart where pressurisation was either lost or never actually pre-set on the ground before takeoff and all aboard lose consciousness and never wake up again. ...The high climb rate to very high altitudes exacerbates the situation in jets.
However, the case of Saint Exupery is different in that he would have had no pressurisation in his P38 and he would therefore most certainly have anticipated breathing oxygen at least for high flight. In which case I am inclined to think that he would have recognised if his oxygen system was not working. Also he would have been a very different kind of aviator from pilots of our generation. Especially on account of having flown in the 1920's/1930's and in South America, it is very likely that he would have frequently explored altitudes well above 10,000feet(to clear high terrain) ...possibly even as high as 18,000feet or more and without any oxygen on his aircraft in those early days. In which case he would have been "well attuned to his personal susceptibility to hypoxia" ...And I can say from my own point of view that I am very aware when I am breathing oxygen and when I am not as I find the benefit quite noticeable at any altitude.
Also my understanding is that reconnaissance missions were more often flown at lower levels in WWII as their cameras were far less able than today. Therefore, it seems unlikely to me that Saint Ex would have been flying a recon. mission above an altitude where he became so rapidly incapacitated by hypoxia that he could not have quickly dived to a habitable altitude. ...I think the answer lies elsewhere. ...Engine failure or suicide seem more likely to me.


User currently offlineClaude From France, joined Aug 2005, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8795 times:

hi all,
if i remember well some years ago, a sailor found a plane between french mediteranean coast and corsica, some "scuba divers" went there, and they said it was a P38 (maybe the Lockheed F-5, mr Broke, i don't think these boys were specialists) they asked to get it out of the sea, but the family of Mr Antoine Saint Exupery prefered to let it under the sea.
by the way Lyon Airport had his name....
greetings
Claude


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8786 times:



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 16):
Also he would have been a very different kind of aviator from pilots of our generation.

Yes, but it was also said that Saint-Exupery was effectively a pilot from the open cockpit bi-plane era and he had problems with the more complicated P-38.

Jan


User currently offlineTommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 23 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. "

User currently offlineTommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 23 hours ago) and read 8523 times:

"War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. "
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery


User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 21 hours ago) and read 8501 times:



Quoting Tommytoyz (Reply 19):
"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. "

With out a doubt that is a fine sentiment. ..."But it better not be so when you are flying an aeroplane" and after all that is how Saint Ex. was lost.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 hours ago) and read 8468 times:

This is good news that they have found Saint-Ex's aircraft. I knew it had crashed somewhere between the coast and Corsica. However, I hope they will leave it down under the sea just as it is. I still love reading Le Petit Prince. This is such an amazing book. I like his other books just as much.

I like this generation of French pilots, Saint-Ex, also Nungesser and Coli or Maryse Bastie. They were heroes.

[Edited 2007-12-23 00:25:57]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8364 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
I like this generation of French pilots, Saint-Ex, also Nungesser and Coli or Maryse Bastie. They were heroes.

I am surprised that these two Frenchmen who became famous in the 1920/30's are not more well known:-
...Dieudonn'e Costes and Maurice Bellonte flew a Breguet 19 Super Bidon (single engine biplane) known as "Point d' Interrogation" and nickname "Le Rouge" on the first non-stop flight from Paris to New York on 1st-2nd September 1930. Their flight of 37hours and 17 minutes, displayed skill and courage probably equal to that of the legendary Charles Lindberg (solo New York to Paris), who met and congratulated them on their arrival in New York. Flight east to west over the Atlantic is usually the more difficult direction to fly in due to prevailing westerly winds.

Photo of "Point d' Interogation" at:- http://storage.mfa.free.fr/gallery/pointinterro/point.jpg

I would really like to see this plane which looks like it has been restored to very nice condition in the photo above.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8279 times:



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 16):
In which case I am inclined to think that he would have recognised if his oxygen system was not working.



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 16):
possibly even as high as 18,000feet or more and without any oxygen on his aircraft in those early days. In which case he would have been "well attuned to his personal susceptibility to hypoxia"

With the number of hours you have you also know that hypoxia can sneak up on you.

I do agree that often those aircraft were used at low altitudes, but they were also used at high altitudes.

What is absolutely clear is that anything said today about reason for the accident is almost entirely speculative, and different people will carry their own ideas.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8209 times:



Quoting DL021 (Reply 24):

With the number of hours you have you also know that hypoxia can sneak up on you.

Yes of course. But there is a distinction between operating an aircraft that is pressurised to facilitate high altitude flight and one that is unpressurised and equipped with oxygen to facilitate high flight. In the second case you anticipate breathing oxygen whereas in a pressurised aircraft if all goes according to plan you do not. In our day and age it is failure to pressurize during fast climbs in jets to altitudes over 20,000feet that keeps causing the high profile accidents that are directly attributed to hypoxia.
I am not saying St. Ex could not have succumbed to hypoxia at very high altitude and perhaps as a result of failure or depletion of his oxygen system. But I can't imagine that he would have forgotten or failed to turn it on. And more than most I think his past experience should have helped safeguard him in that situation.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 24):

I do agree that often those aircraft were used at low altitudes, but they were also used at high altitudes.

Well how high are we talking about? ...How high could he potentially have been flying on that mission??

Quoting DL021 (Reply 24):
What is absolutely clear is that anything said today about reason for the accident is almost entirely speculative, and different people will carry their own ideas.

St. Exupery seems to have been an intriguing fellow and I am sure he would like us to continue speculating about his fate.


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