Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Boeing Wins MMA  
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Hopefully this is not another "Dewey defeats Truman" situation but it looks like Boeing wins the competition. If so congrats to the Boeing team. Who knows, maybe Lockheed might be bought on board as a subcontractor since they have so much experience with navy patrol.



http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/040614/arms_navy_plane_boeing_2.html

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Made a post about this in the other MMA thread. It looks like it's true all the websites are reporting that Boeing won.


At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Hopefully the MMA won't be cancelled like the P-7 was in 1990.

User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

The news conference is on live right now for those who live in the Seattle area. As of 2:10 pm it's on NWCN. It's the offical annoucment from the DOD.

User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1637 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Heres a link of the official DoD news release.

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/nr20040614-0902.html


I'm glad I'm still holding 2/3's of stock from my post 9-11 buy.







LINK FIX

[Edited 2004-06-14 23:26:46]


My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16825 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

From Boeing..

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/q2/nr_040614n.html

Picture gallery..

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/mma/mmaphotos.htm

MMA Web page..

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/mma/flash.html



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Last week I said that IMO LM was going to win. I based this on the assumption that the Navy would go with an airframe that has been proven the maritime patrol mission. Guess I was mistaken.  Smile Hey, I wonder if Boeing is hiring yet for this program.  Big grin

User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

The same kind of argument makes the Boeing a no-brainer.

An airframe with huge operating experience behind it, parts available globally for those systems which are 737-common, and engines which are among the widest-used type in aviation. If one was to go tech outside the US then replacement parts would probably be easy to source locally from a civilian operation.


User currently offlineUlfinator From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

LMP737-

As far as being canceled in the future like the P-7 we will have to wait for the future. However one thing that was stated over and over by the Deputy Secretary of the Navy (John Young I think it is) during the press conference was that the P-3s have an average age of 26yrs and for most of that time they have been utilized more than the average baseline amount of hours each month that they were supposed to get. Sounds like they are pretty sure that by 2013 they will need them a lot.

Also there was a question asking if this would be called the P-8 or maybe the P-7 1/2 since the last one was canceled.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Whitehatter:

I see what you are saying. My opinion was based on my experiences in the Navy. They tend to be a conservative bunch which lead me to believe that they would stick with something they are familiar with in the maritime patrol mission.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

On the designation issue - my guess would be P-8, as the P-7 designator was given out and designators aren't reused. Then again, with all the abandonment of the designation system as of late, who's to say?


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

Hey, I wonder if Boeing is hiring yet for this program.

They say 1600 jobs across the country. My inside source tells me around 500 in St. Louis, MO, they could be posted as early as tomorrow.  Smile



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

LMP737

I think the record of the civilian 737 would appeal to the most conservative of the Navy brass. It's proven, has great availability for parts and good slow speed performance.

Sourcing an engine part, for example, could be done in a couple of hours rather than having to wait over 24 hours for one to be flown in from the US or another base. So that alone must be a clincher. An AOG in the middle of a time-sensitive operation could be turned round much faster.

One downside is that Rolls-Royce USA won't be seeing any work with the Boeing bid.


User currently onlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

How many airframes will the initial order be for?


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5891 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2133 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Those people looking for MMA jobs...the vast majority of the engineering work will be done in Kent, WA. If you go to the Boeing website for jobs, there are MMA positions available; you just have to read between the lines a little.

Thus far, the modification itself is slated to be accomplished in Wichita.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

Seems I gauged the political decision making process correctly.
Lockheed has had major orders lately, more than Boeing.

Everyone in fact thought Boeing would get the JSF to keep their military division in work, but Lockheed got it instead because the similar looks between their competitor and the F-22 makes it look like there's part commonality between them.

So now Boeing gets the deal, expect Lockheed to probably get the next one...



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

So now Boeing gets the deal, expect Lockheed to probably get the next one...

It doesn't work that way. There were reasons Lockheed's X-35 was selected as opposed to Boeing's X-32 for JSF. For one, the prototype X-32 that was flown was going to need to have a redesigned tail section. There is no conspiracy to alternate big contracts. The goverment has strict procurement procedures, the people deciding the contract look at the contract, not the politics.

Military contracts are being handed out all the time, in large and small quantities. If contractors really thought the govt. was just going to alternate, they wouldn't bother writing the proposals. All I can say.

(remember both Lockheed Martin and Boeing's names are on F-22, it wasn't that long ago the landscape was completely different)

[Edited 2004-06-15 06:39:32]


Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

Seems I gauged the political decision making process correctly.

Yes and the 737 has no technical merits to qualify it for MMA duties in the least  Yeah sure Other than your opinion, what is there to say that the 737 is not the superior aircraft? Anything? An illusion that an MMA must be a turboprop? "ooOOoo, Boeing makes that scandolus 767 tanker, and *gasp* they just one military contract! It must be politics!"

The dust has not even settled from this order and you have already concluded that this decision was based on a "one for Boeing, one for LM" tic for tac. Since you are now self-apointed Director of Naval Aquisitions, please impart your towering wisdom as to why Boeing won this order on the basis of political wrangling.

The fact is, none of us have any clue to the capablities of either the 737MMA or the P-3 update. I happen to know one of the admirals involved in this order and, if I remember next time I see him, I will personally ask him if he can provide any insight. I'll quote to the word if possible. You don't know, I don't know, but the fact that you have concluded without doubt that this decision was based on politics disgust me.

Everyone in fact thought Boeing would get the JSF to keep their military division in work, but Lockheed got it instead because the similar looks between their competitor and the F-22 makes it look like there's part commonality between them.

Or maybe because the X-35 flew circles around the X-32. As for everyone, after Boeing redesigned the X-32 it was pretty clear to me who held the advantage.

As for commonality between the F-22 and F-35, which I havn't heard to even be existant, that is a fair boost in Lockheed's position. As is commonality with the C-40 as well as the other 5,000 737s in the world.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

Lockheed has had major orders lately, more than Boeing.

What's Lockheed had other than the F-35, considering that Congress trims the number of F/A-22s every chance they can get? Boeing's had the F/A-18E/F, the C-17, the (on hold) KC-767 and the DoD is looking at the YAL-1 and the E-10...seems like things are going more Boeing's way as of late rather than the other way around.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2016 times:

It will be a shame to see the old P-3's going away, and I still think the Orion offers a much better platform for ASW. MUCH longer loiter times over a 'target', the option of shutting down engines in flight to save fuel. Tell me if you think a 737 could take the abuse and damage that a EP-3 took a few years ago and still land safely .......????


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

EMBQA:

Yes I do think that the 737 could handle the abuse and damage. Remember the Aloha Airlines 737 that became a convertible.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Remember the Aloha Airlines 737 that became a convertible

That was nothing compaired to what happed to that EP-3 near China.....but yes, a 737 is a stout little aircraft..



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Did the EP-3 lose a portion of it's fuselage while pressurized?

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Yes I do think that the 737 could handle the abuse and damage. Remember the Aloha Airlines 737 that became a convertible.

If it really WAS a stout little airplane, then it wouldn't have lost its top after being operated in a salt water environment with high cycles!


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1954 times:

Did the EP-3 lose a portion of it's fuselage while pressurized?

Actually, yes it did.. The aircraft experienced a depressurization after a hole was ripped in the fuselage after the mid air collision with the Chinese fighter.... That along with loosing 2 of its 4 engines..., one propeller so heavly damaged, it just about ripped off the engine and was causing a huge vibration before the crew could get it shut down, the radome was torn off,....and ooh yea, all this while diving at the ocean while it was inverted on its back....!! No wonder LT Osborn won the DFC



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
25 N328KF : DfwRevolution sez: As for commonality between the F-22 and F-35, which I havn't heard to even be existant, that is a fair boost in Lockheed's position
26 DfwRevolution : C) I think much of the software and computer hardware is common. D) Avionics When I talked to both LM and the U.S. Navy, they reiterated several times
27 N328KF : Yes, but the F-35 also has the GE F136, which is derived from the F120. Because of the high sales volume and need to have two suppliers on such a larg
28 LMP737 : EMBQA: But did the EP-3 become a convertible like the Aloha 737?
29 Greaser : Dfw, so what are the F-22 no.s now and how many more are in the backlog?? ALso what is the CURRENT F-35A/B/C (US only) Order Backlog?
30 N328KF : The F-22 is in squadron force now. Not sure how many that means at the moment. Total requested numbers are around 350, but to call that 'backlog' woul
31 EMBQA : But did the EP-3 become a convertible like the Aloha 737? Oh, we can go around and around on this... Ok, you win, the 737 is a better choice because i
32 Vorticity : I'm going to have to venture a guess that the Navy people that chose Boeing for the MMA know what they want/need more than anyone else. They had the p
33 Jmets18 : as other posters have said, contracts come and go all of the time. contracts for aircraft are much more publisized though. and in terms of which compa
34 Vorticity : It's kinda apples and oranges, Lockheed and Boeing both have vast groups that aren't military, but, here is the financial breakdown for 2003-2001. Loc
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Boeing Wins MMA
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Boeing Pitches P-8 MMA To Indian Navy posted Thu Apr 13 2006 17:23:19 by N328KF
Boeing Completes MMA Wind Tunnel Tests posted Thu Apr 14 2005 00:36:25 by MidnightMike
Lockheed Or Boeing...MMA Contract? posted Tue Jun 8 2004 19:18:06 by Jmets18
Boeing To Begin Ground Testing X48B posted Mon Oct 30 2006 10:11:16 by DEVILFISH
Boeing Rolls Out ABL posted Sat Oct 28 2006 18:23:46 by MCIGuy
New Boeing CH-47F Helicopter Takes Flight posted Thu Oct 26 2006 09:53:54 by Columba
Boeing Begins Flight Tests Of Laser Gunship posted Sat Oct 14 2006 03:04:08 by AerospaceFan
Boeing Looks To Acquisitions To Boost UK Profile posted Tue Oct 3 2006 00:40:22 by Osiris30
F-22 Wins It's Biggest Battle, Congress posted Fri Sep 29 2006 02:31:58 by STT757
The Boeing 777 Tanker posted Thu Sep 28 2006 00:35:18 by NWDC10

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format