JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5190 times:
Hehe - probably because the official US Government atlas (there is only one) was being used that day to demonstrate to a highly placed official that Iraq isn't the one 90 miles south of Key West - no George, that's the OTHER Axis of Evil.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4697 times:
Miamiair, get it together. This is a perfect example of why the supposedly hi tech invasion of Iraq has killed tens of thousands of civilians. You should be defending critics of this latest incident, not defending the pilot who was responsible.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Elwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4646 times:
Well, gee. USAF flight crews have been complaining for years that they're not getting enough training time.
Maybe this is an indication that they are right???
By the way, JGPH1A, how's that latest copy of "Soldier of Surrender: The Official Magazine of the French Military"? I hear it's got a great "how-to" article on making a white flag from boxer shorts, assuming they aren't soiled at the sight of the enemy...
(Sorry to any Legionaires who may have been offended by that remark. You guys are incredible!)
It's amazing how everyone ignored you. I don't know about European airshows, but here in the US, it's just as you describe: Aircraft follow the direct instructions of local controllers, period. They don't get to set their own routes.
This is a perfect example of why the supposedly hi tech invasion of Iraq has killed tens of thousands of civilians.
By who's counting?!?! Even Amnesty International, the most respected by vehemently anti-war group in the world, estimates civilian casualties before the Official End of Combat Operations at around 3,000. Which, considering the fact that we successfully occupied a WHOLE COUNTRY, is remarkable in history for how low those casualty rates are. By the way, we've found a single mass-grave area (really dozens of mass graves in one location) that has 100 times that number of bodies in it...
You should be defending critics of this latest incident, not defending the pilot who was responsible.
What possible responsibility does he have to defend people he disagrees with, other than their right to speak their minds?
Look, none of us were there. We don't know what happened. The Air Force is looking into it, as are the Brits I am sure.
We'll see what the official report says.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
Laddb From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4534 times:
I'd like to add one point. Whenever there is a US military mistake, be it a bomb missing its target, an aircraft crashing, etc. everyone acts like it happens all the time. Thing is, the US military is doing so much more than anyone else. They fly the most sorties, drop the most bombs, etc. Of course they are going to have higher numbers of mistakes. But per operation, sorite, or whatever, I'd be willing to bet they are above average.
Sulman From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4480 times:
How on earth did this thread end up being politicised? What a load of bollocks. The crew quite possibly got disorientated and simply overlooked the field. England is a funny old place like that - most of it looks the same from the air, especially at lower levels, travelling at four miles a minute.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
LMP737 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 4957 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4450 times:
If one does a little research one would find that EVERY air force in the world has had a couple "Oh s*#ts" in their long and illustrious career.
Please back up your claims with something other than your "word".
Remember that Mirage 2000 crew that was shotdown over Bosnia? Guess who the French TRAP team had to hitch a ride with? That's right a USAF Pave Low. Evidently the French military helicopters did not even have the capability to get lost at night and in bad weather.
Whitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4451 times:
The pilot was probably using VFR/airshow protocols due to low altitude, and the distance between airfields was around 5 miles.
There are airports bigger than 5 miles across.
It's an embarassing mistake, but then again it was a pilot using visual flight rules over unfamiliar territory and NOT a GPS precision operation. Which a bombing run would be. ATC would not be responsible for every turn of the display but would just be responsible for bringing the aircraft to the area and then tracking it out of the display area again.
The Farnborough display box itself will be considerably bigger than five miles across, as you can't turn stuff like A346s or 744s on a sixpence.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4332 times:
Noone's ever find out it was deliberate.
Read all the kids here: "stupid Yank can't find the correct runway".
The controller in question is a civilian, aircraft is a foreign military aircraft.
Bound to be comms problems, then handoff to a controller that they're not normally talking to a lot.
At the least they can claim the pilot got confused and get off lightly.
Whitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4331 times:
The British and Americans both speak English....and British controllers are constantly handling US military traffic.
As this happened in civil air space over an airfield an investigation is definitely going to happen. No controller would ever be as stupid as to potentially endanger lives and aircraft for some sick kind of joke.
Tasha From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4320 times:
"Miamiair, get it together. This is a perfect example of why the supposedly hi tech invasion of Iraq has killed tens of thousands of civilians. You should be defending critics of this latest incident, not defending the pilot who was responsible"
I hate to tell you this Cederjet, but there is no such thing as a clean war. And "tens of thousands of civilians"... where do you get your information, ahhh don't tell me I know: Osama Bin Laden.