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Space Shuttle - When Again In Service?  
User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

Is there any date fixed yet for a restart of the Space Shuttle flights to ISS? How many shuttles are still in service?

Thanks
=TW741=


TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Spring 2005.

Shuttles:
Atlantis
Discovery
Endeavour

Columbia & Challenger = destroyed
Enterprise= first prototype. only flew inside the atmosphere.


User currently offlineBENNETT123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7767 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

My understanding is that the main Shuttle role concerns ISS.

By the time that is comes back on line, this will have largely been completed.

I am not convinced that it will come back.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

Discovery is the next one that shall fly into space, more on
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sts114_update_040824.html


User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

Thank you. Couldn´t find anything on the NASA homepage except "Discovery Marches Toward Launch" but no dates at all.

Best regards
=TW741=



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3459 times:

Bennett123,

They need shuttle to complete station. Once station is complete then there will be no further need for shuttle. NASA has too many international obligations to station to give up on shuttle now.

SATL382G


User currently offlineBENNETT123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7767 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

SATL382G

When is the ISS due to be completed.

Will it still be needed for re-supply and crew changes.

Also what are NASA doing about Manned Spaceflight Post Shuttle.


User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

Hopefully the moon and Mars.

Some of the installations will require the shuttle, unless the robot arm has been installed competely on the ISS.



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

ISS will be complete in 2010 barring further shuttle troubles. Shuttle will quit flying at this point

Trouble is many of the ISS components are designed for shuttle launch and can't go up on any other vehicle.

The Russian Soyuz and Europes Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV) will handle station resupply and transportation once shuttle goes out of service. ATV launches for the first time next year.

The Crewed Exploration Vehicle (CEV) is the next US manned space project. I can't tell you much more at this point.

Things will likely change between now and 2010.....


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

The Crewed Exploration Vehicle (CEV) is the next US manned space project. I can't tell you much more at this point. Things will likely change between now and 2010.....

Indeed... last we heard, the CEV is a 5-man capsule-like vehicle that will ride atop a Delta-IV Heavy. Additional booster segments and a heavier service module could allow near-Earth/moon exploration.


User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

CEV is still in concept development, so there are a number of configurations being studied...

User currently offlineCheckerboard From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2001, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Hi folks, I'm just wonder that is space shuttle able to travel to the moon? Sorry for the off topic  Smile

User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3394 times:

I don't believe it can carry enough fuel to make a lunar trip. But strap enough rockets on it, anything can make a trip around the moon.


At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13241 posts, RR: 77
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3368 times:

Maybe in theory a Shuttle boosted by another propulsion added in Earth orbit unit could reach the Moon, presumably this extra motor would need to retain fuel for Lunar orbital insertion unless it was a free return trajectory.
However, the Shuttle's heat shielding is not designed for the extra heat and greater stresses of a re-entry from a Lunar flight, the Apollo capsules were.

NASA would be well advised to take a long look at Apollo when considering the CEV, why waste money and time on development of a new concept when a modernized, improved, larger version of Apollo could build on the original, we know this concept works.




User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

NASA would be well advised to take a long look at Apollo when considering the CEV

They did, in fact, it was one of their first actions post-Columbia. They concluded that the capsul configuration is durable, flexible, and cheap, which in the studies recommendation, outweighed the payload capacity of a winged vehicle. This is why most CEV drawings have been capsules or hybrid capsul/lifting body shapes.

But they noted that nothing from the Apollo program can be directly applied to any CEV configuration. The technology is so old it cannot be replicated, and with the advancemens in materials, avionics, systems, and propulsion, who would want to?


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

The hard part would be the landing of the shuttle, how do you brake down the speed when landing on the moon without atmosphere?
The best thing would be a vehicle that would travel between ISS and the moon, so no need for a heat shield.


User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

The best thing would be a vehicle that would travel between ISS and the moon, so no need for a heat shield.

From what I have heard from the orbital scientists, the ISS is in too high inclination of an orbit to be efficiently used as a blast off point for future space missions.



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

The hard part would be the landing of the shuttle, how do you brake down the speed when landing on the moon without atmosphere?

It wouldn't actually land on the Moon, but probably orbit and release a LM


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3282 times:
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However, the Shuttle's heat shielding is not designed for the extra heat and greater stresses of a re-entry from a Lunar flight, the Apollo capsules were.

From what I understand, Shuttle missions encounter reentry speeds actually exceeding those of Apollo command modules. The heat and stress on the Shuttle's airframe would likely be much higher that of the Apollo capsules.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

EA CO AS,

I think you got that backwards. Apollo style lunar return reentries were on the order of 24,000 MPH. Shuttles blazes in at around 17,000 MPH.

If you go to ISS from the moon, true you don't need the heat shield but you do have to carry the fuel to brake into earth orbit. A significant weight penalty.

SATL382G


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13241 posts, RR: 77
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3243 times:

Te human speed record is held by the crew of Apollo 10, (Stafford / Young / Cernan) after their lunar orbit mission, just a bit faster than the others, all a lot faster than any Shuttle re-entry.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

I think you got that backwards. Apollo style lunar return reentries were on the order of 24,000 MPH. Shuttles blazes in at around 17,000 MPH.

At the same time, the Shuttle is in re-entry heating for over 30 minutes, while the Apollo capsul peaked at about 3. The Apollo capsul also deaccelerated very quickly due to its rapid entrance to the atmosphere, so the capsul passed through maximum heating relativly quickly.

The Shuttle was also designed to bring payloads the size of Hubble back to down to earth, which puts a tiny burden on the airframe of a glider  Big grin


User currently offlineOftwftwoab From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

The shuttle would be inefficient for a trip to the moon because it has wings and other equipment for atmospheric flight, all of which would be (very expensive) dead weight.

User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

The best thing would be a vehicle that would travel between ISS and the moon, so no need for a heat shield.

From what I have heard from the orbital scientists, the ISS is in too high inclination of an orbit to be efficiently used as a blast off point for future space missions.
-------
The only reason you would want to stop at the space station on the way to another heavenly body would be to use station resources, such as its robot arm, to help in spacecraft assembly.

No active plans for manned exploration beyond earth orbit nowdays involves any significant assembly in low earth orbit - only maybe docking a rocket stage. Most plans involve prepositioning equipment at the destination or in orbit arround the destination body and even using resources available on site - while sending astronauts in a smaller and faster spacecraft. Zubrin's "Mars Direct" plan is the primary ancestor of such plans - Zubrin is basically the grandfather of all serious plans for leaving near-Earth orbit today. The old-style, expensive, unsafe and innefficient plans to build single huge spacecraft in earth orbit are dead.

NASA has known this for a long time now, and now that the ISS is far enough allong to be safe from cancelation, they are even willing to admit it. Though I doubt that they will ever admit that the ISS will never come anywhere close to justifying its cost and will not lead us much closer to actually going somewhere. What is worse is that they are holding out the ISS as a model for managing future programs, and that is truly scarry. If NASA was a private company, they would be bankrupt many times over by now. Say what ya want about Enron, at least it died before it could do any more damage. Government agencies that act like Enron just get more money to fix the problems they themselves caused.


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Though it would most likely be a pipedream, I do agree with one of the above posters: Bring back an updated Apollo. If not the actual launch vehicles themselves, use the same concept. It worked incredibly well. The Apollo CM/SM, by its nature, was highly adaptable to a range of missions (exactly what we'd be looking for). It could fit happily on two different launch vehicles, carry (limited) payload, etc.

Put Launch Complex 39 out of its misery, make it a historical site, give up-close-and-indoors tours, and leave it. Has anyone seen the pictures of the VAB after all the hurricanes? That's some serious damage on top of what was already done. Oh, and of course put a Columbia memorial on 39A and a Challenger memorial on 39B.

God, to see a Saturn V (or equivalent) going into space...can't even begin to imagine what a sight that'd be. Heck, can't even imagine what a sight it was back then. That sucker was HUGE.

With all the technological advances we've made in the past thirty years, we could make MAJOR improvements to the design. I'm even sure we could come up with some way to make some of the components reusable.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (10 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2004-10-01-shuttle-delay_x.htm

Shuttle's spring 2005 launch date delayed

HOUSTON (AP) — The first shuttle flight since the Columbia tragedy has been pushed back by NASA because hurricane damage and implementation of new safety measures made a spring 2005 launch "no longer achievable."

March or April had been the tentative date selected by NASA's spaceflight council, which announced the delay Friday.

The council, in Houston to discuss the Oct. 14 launch of the next international space station crew from Kazakhstan, asked shuttle program officials to analyze whether a May or July date is more feasible, and to report back to their findings later this month, NASA spokesman Allard Beutel said.......

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, The Captain formerly known as Lieutenant


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