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Looking To Join The Air Force.  
User currently offlineAATriple7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 160 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 8 months 6 days ago) and read 9966 times:

I am looking to join the USAF, I am thinking I should do the ROTC in college (hopefully at the University of Oklahoma). After id really like to fly a F-16, or A-10 but IM already 6 foot, and I don't think id be able to fit in one of those things. So I was thinking of a E-3 Sentry, or a B-1. Can anyone confirm the max height for a AF pilot?

If anyone on this board is in the AF and can just tell me how you like it please tell me, and try to answer my questions.

Thank you very much.

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 6 days ago) and read 9917 times:

Take a read thru this and let us know if you have questions




User currently offlineAATriple7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 6 days ago) and read 9910 times:

Thanks you very much, but id like to know if IM to tall to fly a fighter of any kind, and if so what would I be able to fly.

And if I do the ROTC in college, what do I do? I don't know what the AF ROTC does to prepare you for the Force when you get out of college, also is the ROTC even a smart way to go? Or should enlist right after high school?

User currently offlineAATriple7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 6 days ago) and read 9909 times:

And also, if I fly a E-3 what are my chances of getting base @ Tinker? If I would fly an F-16 would I be trained @ Luke?

User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5551 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9870 times:

Regarding the Sentry, AA, there are 3 bases that operate the E-3 for the USAF - Tinker AFB, Elmendorf AFB, and Kadena AB. Kadena and Elmendorf both have one squadron of E-3s each, while the bulk of the E-3s (6 squadrons). Based on the odds alone, you have the best shot of being assigned to Tinker, but keep in mind that TDYs tend to affect the E-3 community a fair amount.

South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2642 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9819 times:

I'm 6'3.5'' and I flew an F-18D sim with room to spare. I dont know about the F-16, as it is smaller than the Hornet but Im sure you'll be fine.

I would say ROTC is a smart choice, you could be in for a few years before you are up for officer, after that, flight school.

In NROTC (Navy ROTC) here at Purdue, you are basically taught how to be in the military. Upkeep of uniforms, customs, traditions, ranks, leadership skills, etc.

Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineAFHokie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

You're not to tall to be a pilot in the F-16, we have many pilots that are over 6ft here at Shaw. You'll put in a lot of long days, while in flight school and once you get to your first operational duty assignment.

For a really good rundown of what it's like to fly and E-3 look for Lt-AWACS on here. He's a air battle manager on them, and he'll be able to fill you in on what a typical day for their pilots is like.

I'd suggest ROTC, but dont limit yourself to only one school, I've known folks that were able to get scholarships at one school, but not at the one they wanted to go to. The main empahsis for me when I picked my college was I went where I felt I could get the most quality and perform the best.

Also, you don't have to have receive a scholarship in order to be in ROTC and get commissioned. I never had one.

User currently offlineDuce50boom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9770 times:

You are NOT too tall to fly a fighter, even the F-16. So don't worry about that. I've seen A-10 dudes that gotta be at least 6"2 or 6"4. There was a linebacker or offensive lineman for the cowboys who flew A-10s in the first gulf war. That guy was around 6"5 and 250 pounds. I'm sure it was a tight squeeze, but he did it.

You'd want to fly the E-3? I guess there's a first for everything. Odds are (greater than 90%) that you'll go to Tinker if you're "lucky" enough to get the Wacker out of UPT. If you don't mind my asking, why would you want an AWACS? The Bone I can understand, but you can do alot better than doing orbits for 12 hours being a bus driver for all the goats in the back. There are other heavy airframes within spitting distance of Oklahoma if you want to be near there.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 30408 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9665 times:


Go checkout the forums at http://www.military.com

They have a couple dedicated to recruiting and I know that a couple of actual recruiters hang out there.

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9115 times:

First off, you have to get commissioned first, through ROTC, OTS or the Academy, before you can even think of flying. Then you have to get a Pilot Slot. ROTC and OTS are the hardest ways to get pilot slots. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but towards the end of UPT, you'll put in for fighter, bomber or cargo. Depending on how well you do in UPT will determine which one you get, and then depending on how well you do in those trainer airframes and all will determine which a/c you actually get.
I wouldn't look at getting an aircraft just for base location either. And, I don't know if you can go straight out of UPT to a B-1.
In either case, you have a long road ahead of you, and chances of you getting a pilot slot are not as high as you might think (between medical and selection etc..).
Also, you're more than likely not too tall to fly a fighter (you're height is not an issue, and although I dunno your sitting height, it should probably not be an issue), but there are a lot more extensive medical checks you'll have to go through and pass before you're even considered for UPT.
Don't know much about ROTC, but from what I've heard basically you learn to wear the uniform, learn the AF customs, get accustomed to the military etc...
Anyway, good luck!

User currently offlineAFHokie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9019 times:

ROTC and OTS are not the hardest ways to get a pilot slot. If you are medically, mentally, academically qualifiable, then you have a pretty good chance of getting into SUPT. (btw, it's offically now called Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training)

It is not an easy road, and there are some pretty queepy reasons as to why some folks dont make it through, but if you study hard, and keep your grades up, you're doing about as much as you can to get yourself where you want to be. Like anything in life, there sometimes comes a point when a little bit of luck is involved. You can get a waiver for darned near anything, usually comes down to just being in the right place at the right time and asking the right person.

One last thing, just because one person tells you you aren't qualifiable for whatever reason, get a second opinion. Whether it's a freaking general telling you, or someone you're in class with. The one thing I've learned in my 5yrs in is that if you get the response you're not looking for, ask someone else until you do (within reason of course)

Acadamy grads probably do have a little bit of an edge, but it's not really that much in the grand scheme of things, considering that ROTC is where the bulk of all commisioned officers come from. The air force is still experiencing a pilot shortage, even with the force reductions (exuse me "force slimming") that the air force is doing right now. Most of those jobs that the air force is reducing manning in are jobs that are not critical to putting warheads on foreheads. (you won't see any maintance troops, pilots, controller's etc getting forced out)

As far as how SUPT runs, first off, everyone starts out in either the T-37 or the T-6. By the time you get to flight school, all of the T-37's should have been phased out by then. I don't remember the time frame, but you'll either then break off and start flying the T-1, or the T-38. If you go into T-1's your gonna fly cargo, or tankers (this would also include the E-3) when you graduate. If you go into T-38's you'll fly either fighters or bombers when you graduate. There is also the chance that if you were to fly C-130's the the air force would send you to NAS Corpus Christi to finish SUPT flying C-12's, OR, if you were to go fly helo's for the air force, you would go to Ft. Rucker to finish flight school when you completed the T-37 phase.

Like I stated earlier, hope you like long hours, on average most of the pilots here put in 12hour+ days. (We have F-16's here at Shaw) Different airframes require more or less time. If you ask any of them if it's worth it, they'll freely admit the hours do suck, but it is worth it to do what they're doing.

Jcxp15: You do a little more than learn to wear the uniform and customs and courtisies in ROTC...not much more, but you do learn more.... Big thumbs up

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9000 times:


Hence ROTC and OTS are the hardest ways, at least compared to the other alternative. From what I understand, most ROTC detachments only send one or two graduates to UPT on average. The ways things are now, as long as you graduate from the Academy, and you are medically qualified, and you want to be a pilot, you'll get a UPT, ehh SUPT slot. (and usually you can't have an Art. 15 or UIF).
Now if you want to live a more normal college life, and are very smart, in shape and do well in your ROTC detachment, you'll proably get the pilot slot. I'm pretty sure Grad school is also a lot easier to get paid for by the Air Force coming from the Academy, but I don't have numbers on that.
As you said, the Air Force is in need of pilots which is why there are so many slots available, and still should be in at leats the next 5 years.

All that stuff aside, you bring up a really good point about the medical stuff though. Always get a second or third opinion. The eye doctor the AF sent me to to get my initial evaluation as to whether being PQ or not completely messed up, and I got a second opinion which gave me the real results. (I had this also looked at by another AF opto).

Anyway, good luck in your endeavors AATriple7!

User currently offlineAFHokie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8966 times:

My detachment at Va Tech was getting Pilot slots for anyone who was qualifiable and wanted one. There were 11 of us total that were commissioned together when I graduated in the fall of 99, and 6 were going to flight school. The rest of us were either not qualifiable, or did not want to fly. (I was not qualifiable for anyone that is wondering) Then again, that was over 5yrs ago, but from what I've seen, and read, it hasn't changed.

As far as getting grad school paid for by the air force, what your commissioning source is has no bearing on whether or not they'll pick up the tab. If anything what your job in the air force is has the most bearing, i.e. will providing you the opportunity to earn this degree make you better at your daily core job skills. Probably second is how well you did while you were in school for your undergrad. Different career fields in the air force have differing continuing education needs. In reality, as a pilot, you probably have the hardest chance of getting the air force to send you to grad school, they want you in the cockpit, not at a desk. Intelligence folks usually have the widest array of opportunities to pick up a masters degree on the air force's tab.

what's making OTS so tough right now is that they cut the number of folks they're accepting to OTS period, unless you have a technical degree or competing for a flying careerfield, you aren't even considered for selection to OTS. If anything, that has increased the percentage of pilots coming out of OTS

Ok, before I write a novel, I'll get off my soapbox  Big grin

User currently offlineDuce50boom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8965 times:

To add to AFhokie's post here's what happens at SUPT. The timelines are rough, but pretty close to what it really is. This is all secondhand from the pilots I fly with;

First 5 weeks. Slackademics. Learning all the science behind flying, life support equipment, aerospace physiology, ejection seats, etc.

Week 6-26. Flightline training. The stick is in your hands (sts) with an instructor behind or to the side of you. The last few rides you solo and then get checked out.

Depending on factors like class rank, your desires, needs of the AF, your instructor and more importantly your flight commander's recommendations, you'll go from primary (T-6 and T-37) to one of four tracks;

T-38= Fighter/attack/bomber track. Anyone who wants to shoot missiles or blow shit up has to go to the T-38 first. Very competitive, and those who do poorly in 38s end up driving an AWACS or J-stars or a bomber if they're lucky because ACC owns their butt and will put you where they want.

T-1= Tanker/airlift track. If you're not 100% positive you want to fly fighters you might want to look more closely at this one and the following. Fighters are NOT for everybody. The flying is less demanding but still requires 100% focus and attention to detail. You can't eject if you fuck something up.

T-44= Turboprop (C-130) track. Don't really know much about this one, except you train under navy rules (This is a good thing) at NAS Corpus Christi in texas in a mil King Air. The only complaint I've heard from Herk drivers is the plane is too slow. But who else does 12 ship SKE formations through a valley on NVGs?

UH-1= Helo track. Don't know too much about this one either except that you go down to Fort Rucker, Alabama, and the army teaches you their style of flying. Then you go to Kirtland AFB, NM for the AF to re-teach you how to fly AF style on HH-60s or MH-53s. Also a cool job. But definitely requires more hand-eye coordination than the other tracks.

Whatever track you're in, it'll take around 6 months to get through it. So over all you're eating up an entire year just to earn your wings.

Then, along with class rank, desires, etc as factors, you are assigned to whatever airplane you will fly. Ie, you're almost done in T-38s, you find out you're getting an A-10 or F-15E after IFF.

After that you still have FTU along with IFF for fighter guys. You're looking at a year and a half to 2 years from the time you show up at SUPT to the time you're fully qualled in your new jet.

It's all on you really. What kind of flying do you want to do?

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8946 times:

Dave (AFHokie) is correct, ROTC is fairly easy to get a flying slot out of.
Overall OTS is the hardest to fly out of, of the 3 main Active commissioning sources, as it is the easiest to regulate over a short period of time- whereas the Academy and ROTC take years to implement changes not weeks.
Some of the smaller units ROTCmight only get 1 or 2 slots a year, but normal units get plenty currently. That of course can always change, as it did in the early mid-90s when 1-2 slots was normal. But currently if you are qualified, have a good commander ranking, and decent grades your golden.

Also as AFHokie noted, grad school payment has nothing to do with commissioning source. TA-Tuition Assistance is now 100% for all classes with a 2 year commitment added on, this is for every officer regardless of commissioning source.( GI Bill does, that is more after-the-fact payments and academy grads and 4yr ROTC scholarship people are not eligible)

To note from a few other points above,
- You can get B-1s straight out of pilot training.
-Your sitting height is more important than your standing height when it comes to fighter UPT, and this will be measured during your initial flight physical that goes with the UPT application (along with your PCSM score [BAT test, flying hours, and AFOQT score])
- You will normally sit on casual status for several months before beginning SUPT
- remember the commitment is 10 years right now, and that is after you get your wings, so make sure you want to go the career route

AAtriple7 if you do go to Zero U their ROTC unit comes to Tinker as part of Op Target quite often and fly an E-3 sortie (about once a semester) so you can check it out early. You also get to go see the Vipers in Tulsa and/or Ft Smith, the Flying Gas Cans at Tinker and/or Wichita, and Herkys at Will Rogers

If you want to fly E-3s at Tinker that is a very doable thing. You can get the heavy track out of UPT fairly easily, and you can track E-3s fairly easy, I know several folks who wanted E-3s and went that route. 28 of the 32 E-3s are at Tinker so you normally stay on station longer than average. Officers basically homestead at Tinker for at least 4-5 years average.
The Reserve Unit is also an option, with TDY rates a bit lower than the Active force, as E-3s are TDY more than any other airframe

ROTC is a good choice IMO, better than the Academy,if you like more freedoms and a traditional college experience. And now all commisionees from all sources get a Reserve commission with Regular commissions coming at the Major's board.

Hey Dave, call me or email me if you get a chance re:Comer  Big grin

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Texas-It's bigger than France

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8942 times:


Just curious, any reason you chose not to go the rated route? What kind of officer were you? (I think I recall you saying you're now out).
From what I've heard from several ROTC cadets I know and actually spent time with, they were telling me you had to be pretty good to get the UPT slot, since most detachments were only sending a handful to UPT. I guess it all depends on detachment and slot availability. I believe ROTC/OTS and the Academy get around equal number of pilot slots per year, but the Academy has those slots for 900 graduates, which only about 1/2 want to/can actually fly (meaning almost anyone who wants one gets one) where as ROTC/OTS have to spread them out among thousands.

About the grad school thing, I know that the Academy sends quite a few people right after graduation to grad school, even guys who will be going to SUPT after grad school. (I know a 2004 guy who's in grad school who had a "guaranteed" pilot slot after he finishes, and have heard of several more). But like you said, a lot depends on what type of field you go into. Isn't grad school now a requirement to pin on O-5 or O-6?


Thanks for the basic rundown of SUPT. Just a quick curiosity question, do you know how FAIP's and airframe selection works? Would a T-38 IP know what airframe he or she is going to before the IP assignment, or does that come after the assignment when he or she will be moving on?

Also, how's being a boom op? It seems like a sweet job. How are most of the KC-10 crews? I ran into one from I think Maguire a few weeks back and although I talked primarily to the pilots, everyone seemed like they loved the job.

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8940 times:


The 2 year commitment for grad school can be served concurrently with the 5 year commitment after commissioning from either ROTC or the Academy for non-rated guys, correct?

Also, from what I hear the casual status is money, literally. Know some guys who push paper around, show up at work for several hours a day, just waiting for their SUPT date.

Also got a question for your field. Might sound naive, but what exactly is a air battle manager? I think I remember you saying somewhere that you attended UPT, but now that I think about it, maybe not. Anyway, did you want to do AWACS stuff, or did you get put in there, and how's it treating you?

User currently offlineDuce50boom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8928 times:

ABM is a make work job for UPT washouts  Laugh out loud.


They used to be guaranteed their follow on when they got their FAIP assignment. So a guy could be a T-38 FAIP with a tanker follow on, or a tweet FAIP with a fighter follow on. Same way with guys in OSA (C-21). They'd know where they were going afterwards. Now you're in the same pot as everyone else when it comes to assignments. They did it like that before because FAIP slots were a bad deal, so to get more guys to go into it they offered the carrot of a guaranteed follow on. Now with the TDY rate being so high people are jumping at the chance to be a FAIP, or at least go back and be an SUPT instructor after their MWS tour.

Being a boomer? It's a sweet gig. I see the world, pass gas, and get paid for it. The travel is great, the per diem is better, and most of the crews are cool. The biggest downside is the TDY rate. You're not stuck in a tent for 4 months at a stretch, but you're looking at a week home, 2 weeks on the road. 2 weeks back and then a 60 day desert deployment, repeat. Things like that are pretty tough, there's not much continuity and stability. But we've got it great compared to the Barney and Herky dudes. Those guys are hurting!

User currently offlineAFHokie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8909 times:

I wouldn't say that I didn't choose to go the rated route, but rather the choice was made for me. I'm still in the air force, but if I told you what I did, the men in black suits would have to come wave a flashy light in your eyes...

You can go direct to grad school right after commissioning from ROTC too, a couple of folks I went to school with did that, and some are now pilots. I don't remember the name of the program, but essentially what happens is that you get commissioned, and know what your careerfield will be when you do go on active duty, but until you finish gradschool, you're considered inactive reserve. You can wear you're uniform with your rank, but will receive no pay, and no benefits. Yes you do have to have an advanced degree to pin on O-5, and it's a pretty good idea to have it completed, or very close to completion when you get to the point you're competing for O-4

As far as getting FAIPed (First Assignment Instructor Pilot) you'd find that out when your flight school class found out what aircraft they were going to fly once out of flight school. You could've ended up in the fighter/bomber track flying T-38's, but then end up spending your first duty assignment teaching in the T-37/T-6, or stay in the T-38 as an instructor. Either way when you went to your assignment after that, you'd go to either fighters or bombers. The same holds true for those that got the tanker/transport route in the T-1. Only you would of course go onto fly a tanker or a cargo. You wont see someone that was FAIP'ed in T-38's then go on to fly tankers, or cargo unless they decided somewhere along the line after flight school that they didn't want to fly fighters.

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8905 times:

About the FAIP thing, I was talking about whether the IP had a specific fighter or bomber airframe (i.e. going from the T-38 to the 15 or 16 or B1), or if that came after the FAIP assignment.
About the whole pay thing, that's only if you choose to actually pay for grad school correct? The people I know are there on the Air Force's buck, and are making O-1 pay, plus BAH and BAS...
So what, are you some OSI or Intel dude? hehe

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8906 times:

Ignore Duce50 -the poor kid's words should be taken with a grain of salt. This is the same kid who said he heard all that went on during the war, from his gas pump, when his aircraft doesn't have the radios nor Satcom capabilities to hear things. I find ignoring him is best.

As to the points at hand
First Question:
"Also got a question for your field. Might sound naive, but what exactly is a air battle manager? I think I remember you saying somewhere that you attended UPT, but now that I think about it, maybe not. Anyway, did you want to do AWACS stuff, or did you get put in there, and how's it treating you? "

You have to apply to become an ABM on the same AF Form 215 as Pilots and Navs, (and ENJJPT), you apply like any rated career field and get a class 3 physical

- I did want to be an ABM, it is one of the 3 rated flying career fields, and of course being rated and getting flight pay is a good thing. Also ABMs are the highest paid Line officers in the Air Force, not that we do it for the money, but the old ABM commitment was 3 years (it is 6 now) and we get a $15k a year bonus after 3 years. So you are making what every one else makes, plus flight pay, plus a bonus before anyone else. That is always a good thing. Other than being in Oklahoma much of the time (though I get liberal leave, and time off via the wing) things are great.

As for other flying: I am working my UPT slot issues with the TX ANG right now (that is probably what you heard me talk about), though I have a really good knowledge of the program through friends, co-workers and my own applications. I am a private pilot which you might have seen me talk about in the Civ Section often.

In the E-3 You are always the first to go to any deployment, the first to take off, and the last the land in theatre, and the one generating the ATO via Combat Ops and Combat Plans. ABMs hold the hammer in AOCs and CAOCs. not to mention the NORAD slots. Of course flying every exercise and going to so many various TDYs is great for me. Some with Children don't like the TDY but I do. We are the most TDY Line Career field. We were also the only airframe onstation 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 8 months straight, from the morning of Sept 11. Not only are there the controlling slots but various Command and Control slots throughout the MajComs. Not to mention Weapons School at Nellis.

" The 2 year commitment for grad school can be served concurrently with the 5 year commitment after commissioning from either ROTC or the Academy for non-rated guys, correct? "

-The service commitments are concurrent-- being rated has nothing to do with it.
A flying Rating is limited to 3 types of Flyers, Pilots, Navigators, and Air Battle Managers.
These are the 3 flying rated career fields and have no bearing on anything other than pay and command position availability.

JCXP -are you talking about people in the AFIT system, when you talk about your O-1 friends? That is the program for full time grad students, where you go to Wright-Pat or a traditional Grad school and get a masters while getting paid.
TA is while you are on active duty, and take night, weekend, or other types of classes.

AF Hokie was a good controller, but the system at Tyndall was broken back in the day --and he is correct on the FAIP issue.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns
Capt-AWACS, I'd rather be drinking a beer in Houston than a martini in your piss-ant town

User currently offlineDuce50boom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8897 times:

Screw you AWACS. You forget to wipe the sand from your ass or something? It was a joke. Although I've met more than a few ABMs who washed out of UPT.

First off, I never said I heard all that went on. I said you guys acted like a bunch of idiots, especially compared to the Brits. It doesn't take a braniac to figure out you goats don't know your job when they ask a KC-10 if they can reciever A/R at the same time they do tanker A/R. Or waiting 5 or 10 minutes for AWACS to "make a decision" and then have them tell us "words from *****. You're to consolidate with ***** 69 in the ***** track". I don't have any false perceptions about what I do. Although I read a post from you last week that said when goats on the AWACS ride in the jumpseat for T/O, A/R, and landing you're "providing a 5th set of eyes for clearance". Please. You have no place in the cockpit, that's why your called a goat. And from talking to former wacker FEs, you're treated the same as any space A pax. Know your place in the world guy


Back in the day of UPT, when everyone went through 38s, you could go from being a 38 FAIP to flying tankers or lifters. Now that it's SUPT with tracks, it's different. I should've clarified that with my last post

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8890 times:

Quit hijacking threads,

See ladies and gentlemen, the maturity level of this kid comes though again, please save yourself, though I need the laugh after a long day of golf waiting for a new fiscal year.
Would you like me to post your last email to me?? remember your comedy in that little gem???, I didn't respond because you didn't seem to comprehend basic points of fact in the other emails and posts, and you still don't.

And by the way kid, what incorrect statements have I posted in this or any other thread???
Still waiting for one. The fact you might of heard a junior tank controller who was busy controlling over 10 tracks and 30+ aircraft at one time, and the fact the CAOC has no tank plan, we must fix the ATO real time, and you have issues with a few errors from one crew, on one freq, when there are 100s of controllers, and you heard someone ask you a question you found funny. Well you should have answered the question. It is called Maturity.

When you go through some AF Combat Plans schools, some "Major War Plans" training and exercises, shops come talk to me, otherwise keep pumping gas, or what ever you do since you are getting out soon. Good luck though kid.

Actually you also show your ignorance again re: Seat 5.
Seat 5 in the E-3 cockpit is a regulated position in AFI 11-2E3 and any person in it must be briefed and any E-3 crew member in it is by regs a 5th set of eyes. That is the point of the position. Other Pilots, comm techs and ABMs are in it during all critical phases of flight.

Once again kid you pump gas (I am sure you are good at it though at least you aren't sucking up my tax dollars on welfare), you are "self loading baggage" as they say at Red Flag,
----and responsible for the most emergency separations and Class B mishaps last FY (per capita KC-10s via Kirtland's safety webpage) So maybe you should study your own regs before trying to understand other webpages

I know most of the FEs at Tinker and never heard one once say the word Goat. If this word makes you feel better about your low self esteem because you couldn't get into the academy that is your problem.
If you find it funny go for it, it is not a term used at Tinker, though some old timers tell me it was around in the 80s.

I'll continue with the Combat Plans and Command and Control training and let you clean my windshields when you are done with the Gas  Smile (yes I am a dick sometimes huh)

Also, since there are Brits and Americans on both Brit and US E-3s at any given time, even by accent you don't know who you are talking too. Also, depending on which set of receivers we are prepping for attack (see we have controllers putting together packages to actually kill people and win wars ASAP) you don't hear all the coordination amongst the various C2 nodes on who gets what gas when. And as I have said many times the Brits are overall the best Controllers in the air and on the ground in the world. They are also the best tanker crews in the world as noted by the VC-10 and Tri-Star reports and LL from OIF/OEF/OAF.

So when you get the big picture, maybe read a few books on post OIF missions, via Nellis SIPRNET you will have a better understanding of the big picture. I can suggest a few for you.

Space A pax are not rated flyers, so by admission if your statement on Space A pax was true, you fall into the same boat kid. So welcome to the world of Space A, and since your aircraft carries them, while the E-3 does not, you are now the forum Space A expert, congrats LOL

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Seven Continents Down, None to Go

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8875 times:

Wow, such hostility... I love it! jk jk

In any case, yep AWACS, what I was talking about the whole grad school thing is AFIT, and yea I know it has nothing to do with being rated or not (dunno why I put that in up there). Sounds like an awesome deal from what I hear. Like I said, I got friends in Boston, NY, England etc.. doing nothing but getting paid to go to grad school. They have to report into some base like twice a month, so most have beards and long hair.

So AWACS are you trying to get to UPT sometime in the near future?

The flying hours must be really great in AWACS, but from I hear it's real boring (what I hear). It gets a really bad rep here, especially from the fighter and bomber dudes, so maybe that has something to do with it. The bonus and TDY pay sound sweet though!

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 8863 times:

Yeah I'm a hater...... LOL

As for AFIT, it is a good deal. I knew folks back at UT that had just gotten commissioned and then came to Austin getting full pay and BAH, and had to wear the uniform once a week (to help with ROTC) and that was it. Good deal indeed. Tuition Assistance is available to every officer at 100% with the 2 year commitment tagged on (concurrent).

From the Senior Director perspective (the type of ABM I am now, though I am dual qualed and am still an Instructor Air Weapons Officer also) it is never really boring. Flying hours can be at least 16-20 hours a week and sometimes up to 50-60 depending on mission.

The Noble Eagle Missions after Sept 11th were very boring (this is good though meaning the US wasn't under attack). Basically controlling 1-2 fighter caps, and a tanker over DC and/or NYC, and sometimes Crawford, Texas etc. Not allot to do.

During the wars you were in your seat 8-10 hours straight, working TST, CAS, Tanking, Check In, OCA, DCA, and Strike controller-- so it was very busy, especially the Time Critical Targeting we were working.

Normal Controlling Sorties or Red Flags are very very busy in the Weapons pit, surveillance has its own area of responsibility and our ECO-Electronic Combat Officer is an army of one, working Electronic issues (a mini Rivet Joint basically)

yeah I must admit the ABM Pay is the best, I'd actually take an AF pay cut going guard pilot, but I have a better job in the civilian world available. I am working a guard slot with the TX ANG as my primary, though I have some others I am working. If not I will probably go reserves in the E-3.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Uncle Sam's AWAX, The Best Shine for Your Jet

[Edited 2004-10-01 01:05:17]

25 AFHokie : Can't we all just get along.....lol Yea, the T-37 to T-38 track for all student pilots went away with the intro of the T-1 in 1994. I should've mentio
26 Lt-AWACS : Dave, we all need a hug Fool's style ..... Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns, Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
27 SATL382G : Well all this time I thought the gamesmanship just happened in groundpounder sqdns. I see from above posts that zippersuits have that trouble too. As
28 Duce50boom : No, you quit hijacking threads or I'm telling your mom! Get a life To start with, I need the laugh after a long day of golf waiting for a new fiscal y
29 Post contains images Lt-AWACS : "No, you quit hijacking threads or I'm telling your mom! Get a life" That in itself is profound, just let it sink in LOL Your abundant vocabulary amaz
30 Post contains images L-188 : AATriple7 Considering how Capt-Awacs and Duce50Boom are acting right now, consider do you really want to work with people like that Prehaps I could pu
31 Post contains images Jcxp15 : Duce50Boom: [i]Too many rules, not enough alcohol, and way too many women with CHD[/i] Ain't that the truth... Although in the past years it's gotten
32 Lt-AWACS : True being in the Academy still gives the benefits of "the club", but since the Regular commissions are gone, not as much as years past. We actually h
33 Jcxp15 : AWACS: Yea I think the majority of general officers are actually ROTC and OTS grads (not sure on that though). Come to think of it, Jumper isn't a gra
34 Post contains images Lt-AWACS : The academy is a beautiful place, 6000ft higher than Annapolis right . I did a few weeks at Peterson AFB TDY once and got some tours from some AFA gra
35 Post contains images Jcxp15 : The academy is a beautiful place, 6000ft higher than Annapolis right . I did a few weeks at Peterson AFB TDY once and got some tours from some AFA gra
36 EMBQA : AATriple7- Well.... All I can offer is, if you want a flying career be it one of the Academys or ROTC start now. Your still young so work hard in scho
37 Jhooper : ...the sometimes overlooked "best kept secret in the AF" is the A.F. Reserve/Guard. You can compete for a pilot slot before ever having to make any co
38 Duce50boom : Jcxp15, You're definitely right about the academy. One of the best educations (and for free, money wise at least) and a huge amount of leadership trai
39 Jcxp15 : Yea if you're looking to go AF career, and know you can get a pilot slot, and want that more normal college life, ROTC is great. If you're looking to
40 Jhooper : Some of the most extraordinary people in Air Force history are Academy Grads. Well, I'd sure hope so....The only college in the country whose sole mis
41 Jcxp15 : Well, I'd sure hope so....The only college in the country whose sole mission is to crank out officers for the U.S. Air Force! Yea I know, I was just p
42 Stoicescu : Is there a big need for Airlift pilots in USAF because that's what I read somewhere (I can't remember exactly the source) ? My dream job will be B-2 p
43 AGM114L : Eat doughnuts every meal and avoid exercise at all cost. However after you enlist, and getting that Aviator slot falls through you can always use you
44 CX747 : I was selected for a pilot slot via OTS a few months ago. The process took over a year and requires an extreme amount of patience. As others can tell
45 AGM114L : CX747, Did they even look at your academic history in the interview? How did you're College transcripts affect your selection? I always wondered how i
46 CX747 : My college transcripts were a large part of the package. In order to even get in the door, you have to have above a 3.0 grade average. FYI, that is th
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