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Photos Of Doomsday Plane?  
User currently offlineJetBlast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find photos of the Doomsday Plane (the white 747 that follows Air Force One in case anything happens to it).
Thanks!

Regards
JetBlast @ BWI  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Speedbird Concorde One
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5386 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

JetBlast - the aircraft is called the E-4 if that's of any aid to you  Smile/happy/getting dizzy




South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineBillElliott9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

They are stationed at Offutt AFB, NE. in Bellevue, NE (just South of Omaha). I left there 3 years ago but they were always in the pattern doing touch and goes...quite a sight.

User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

What is the bubble on top of the standard 747 'bubble'? The Austin Powers side of me is thinking 'laser beams'!

Does it really 'follow' AF1? I was not aware of this.


User currently offlineStoney From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 199 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Would that mean that the President would be flying Air Force One in an Emergency, and the Vice-President would be in the Doomsdayplane?
And wouldn't it be safer if it were on the other side of the world in case something happens to AF1?

Greetz
Stoney



BAZL - Bundesamt gegen Zivilluftfahrt - royally screwing around with swiss aviation
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

The E-4 only follows AF1 very loosely and only when AF1 is over seas. For example if the President is London, the E-4 may go to Ramstein Germany. It is not a backup to Air Force One. It is an airborne operations center.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steven Ryberg



edit: pix

[Edited 2005-02-08 21:43:51]

User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1608 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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> What is the bubble on top of the standard 747 'bubble'?

Its a satellite communications antenna.


User currently offlineBillElliott9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

SATL382G is correct. The E-4 is referred to as NAOC -- National Airborne Operations Center. There are 4 airframes in the inventory.

It does not have any lasers that I know of! It is refuelable, as well.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find photos of the Doomsday Plane

There is a really cool web site I found called airliners.net. It's loaded with tons of pictures of almost every kind of plane you can think of. I did a quick search and found dozens of E-4B pics. Check it out...!!  Big grin

yea, I know, a little smart a$$ed, but Gezz. This site is loaded with great pics.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAAFLT1871 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2333 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Does it really 'follow' AF1? I was not aware of this.

No, but one is always near by. If the President is in Europe, you can believe one of the E4's are in Europe as well. I have seen them several times at ADW. IIRC, one is always in the air 24 hours a day

Would that mean that the President would be flying Air Force One in an Emergency.

AF1 is fully capable of handling any emergency.

and the Vice-President would be in the Doomsdayplane?

Let's say the President is in the middle of a trans pacific crossing on AF1 and there is a strike on the U.S from abroad. They are not going to chance having the top leaders airborne in a crisis. The goal of the Secret Service would be to get the VP underground either at the White House, or any of the several sercret bunkers nearby in the MD,DC,VA area. More than likely they would get him into the one that is located in the mountains on the Maryland/Pennslyvania border.


And wouldn't it be safer if it were on the other side of the world in case something happens to AF1?

Seeing there is more than one, I would say no.




Where did everybody go?
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

At one time, the E-4s were an "emergency aircraft" for the President, and the VC-25A was seen in a transport/mobile office type role. However, the VC-25As have been upgraded over the years so that their command and control capabilities now rival, and perhaps exceed, those of the E-4s.

Another interesting note... despite the fact that the role of wartime command center has now moved to the VC-25As, the E-4 crews still print up T-shirts along the lines of "We fly the President when it really matters". Go figure  Big grin

EDIT: I forgot to mention that when the E-4s were introduced (74 for the A and 80 for the B) the VC-25A was not yet in service--the much smaller VC-137 was serving the President, and it would have been really hard to squeeze all those electronics on that plane!



[Edited 2005-02-08 22:22:34]


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1920 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Isn't this plane also referred to as "Kneecap"?

Cheers!



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineKBGRbillT From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

First things first, the E-4B doesn't follow AF1 anywhere. It follows the President. If I remember correct from my days at Offutt AFB it is required to be within an hours time of the president stateside or overseas. The humped radome on top of the fuselage houses an antenna for the Milstar Satellite communication system. The aircraft is not allocated for the VP anymore than the Pres. or his cabinet, it is an airborne operations center with the ability to control DoD assets from the air. These aircraft are NOT airborne 24/7/365, in fact as most spotters can attest, they sit on alert 90% of the time at airports which fringe the Presidents location. Command and control capabilities of the E-4B mirror and/or exceed that of AF1. AF1 was put into service in Sept. of 1990 and was fully capable of controlling the Nuclear Triad assets immediately, no future 'upgrades' were required to bring it up to this status. The only capability upgrades it has received is newer better equipment (as it becomes available) than that which was installed when delivered to the USAF.

P.S. - In fact, the Secret Service IS willing to have the President airborne during an emergency. That is exactly what happened during 9/11. The Pres. was flown from his location in Florida to U.S. Strategic Command at Offutt AFB on AF1 and then later back to D.C.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Um..isn't "Air Force One" just the callsign of any aircraft the President is in? If the President is on the E-4B, then won't the E-4B become AF1?

Can the VC-25A and the E-4B withstand the EMP from a nuclear blast? I'm sure they must have thought of someway..otherwise all that sensitive equipment on board can get fried.



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

VC-25A has been upgraded more frequently than the E-4B... thus it may very well be the preffered Command and Control aircraft amongst the two both because of its techynical capabilities as well as its comfort. It is true the E-4 has a few tricks the VC-25A can't match, but rest assured, the VC-25A can do plenty of things nothing else can...

Both the E-4B and the VC-25A are hardened against EMP, though I don't have any details about that (for obvious reasons).

[Edited 2005-02-08 23:00:02]


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineAAFLT1871 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2333 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

P.S. - In fact, the Secret Service IS willing to have the President airborne during an emergency. That is exactly what happened during 9/11. The Pres. was flown from his location in Florida to U.S. Strategic Command at Offutt AFB on AF1 and then later back to D.C.

You forgot Barksdale AFB first, The Secret Service did not want Bush in the air for too long, hence the stop over as they had no clue what would happen next!

A little background on me if you will, I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps with 4 of those being in the Washington area. I have flown with President Clinton on Marine 1 several times all around the world. I have worked White House detail.

Now Re-read my post,

Let's say the President is in the middle of a trans pacific crossing on AF1 and there is a strike on the U.S from abroad. They are not going to chance having the top leaders airborne in a crisis. The goal of the Secret Service would be to get the VP underground either at the White House, or any of the several sercret bunkers nearby in the MD,DC,VA area. More than likely they would get him into the one that is located in the mountains on the Maryland/Pennslyvania border.

On 9-11, Chaney went underground just like I said in the post. If Bush was in Washington on 9-11, the Secret Service would of had him underground as well.

Um..isn't "Air Force One" just the callsign of any aircraft the President is in? If the President is on the E-4B, then won't the E-4B become AF1?

Providing it is a U.S.A.F aircraft, If he is on a Navy aircraft, it is Navy 1. If he is on a commercial aircraft, it becomes Exeutive 1.



Where did everybody go?
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Isn't this plane also referred to as "Kneecap"?

Used to be. It was originally the National Emergency Airborne Command Post (NEACP) which was bastardized into Kneecap.

After the Soviet Union collapsed the unit was in search of a mission. Name changed to National Airborne Operations Center (NAOC) to better reflect the new mission. I remember sitting in on briefings at the time where the unit was trying to sell it's capabilities for things like natural disasters, major events, etc. They thought they were going to get cut like Looking Glass did.
Before the 89th got the C-32s the NAOC guys had even horned in on the VIP transport mission, flying SecDef and the JCS Chairman.

regards


User currently offlineBillElliott9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Speaking of VIP travel. Who was Clinton's Secretary of State? Albright, I think....anyway she just about flew the wings off of the E-4s.

User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Let's say the President is in the middle of a trans pacific crossing on AF1 and there is a strike on the U.S from abroad. They are not going to chance having the top leaders airborne in a crisis. The goal of the Secret Service would be to get the VP underground either at the White House, or any of the several sercret bunkers nearby in the MD,DC,VA area. More than likely they would get him into the one that is located in the mountains on the Maryland/Pennslyvania border.

I doubt with only 8 years in the Corps you ever got to review any more than your small portion of SIOP.

The best place for the the President to be if the U.S. is under attack is AIRBORNE. That's the whole reason for the E-4s existence. Targeting is very difficult when he's airborne.

On 9/11 they had intel that AF1 had been targeted plus Bush wanted to get on National TV for political reasons. Those are the only reasons he didn't stay airborne.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

The E-4B is referred to as NEACP(pronounced "kneecap") which stands for National Emergency Airborne Command Post. It is fully staffed with Command Post officers and was intended for the event of a nuclear war. There are only 4 in the U.S. Air Force inventory and they are all based at Offutt AFB. However, there is one on alert status at all times to be in the air within minutes. I am not sure if the alert plane sits at Offutt or sits at Andrews AFB with AF1. It, as well as AF1, is capable of withstanding the EMP from a nuclear black and controlling a battle while the ground below is annihalated.

One always does stay close to the Presidents travels, but usually remains out of site as much as possible(i.e.-in a neighboring country). Even though both aircraft are capabe of waging a war from the air, the best reasoning would be that the President would make all decisions from AF1 and it would be passed on to the battlestaff inside the E-4 to make it happen.

I knew nothing of it until when I was in Air Force Basic Training and we got blood drawn. Everyone else had 3 vials drawn, I had 4. When I asked why, they said that my blood had to be tested for flight status clearance. Well, you can imagine my surprise and happiness that something in my job might require me to fly. It was not until I got to Command and Control training at Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS that I realized that a lowly Airman Basic like me would not be allowed to fly in the E-4, it would go to commissioned officers. Of the pictures that I have seen of the inside, most of the staff are Majors, Lt. Colonel's, and bird Colonels. Well, my flight status happiness quickly fell into despair that I wouldn't get to fly as easily as I thought. Oh well, you win some, you lose some.


User currently offlineBillElliott9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

For the record it is now called NAOC. NEACP went away around the same time as SAC.

User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

In respose to NEACP becoming NAOC, as of 1997(when I attended Command and Control Specialist training), it was still being referred to and taught as NEACP. So it may have changed, but it would have been around 1997 or later, most likely.

User currently offlineBillElliott9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

OttoPylit: It was NAOC when I left STRATCOM in 2000. And now I can remember one of the conferences when it was changed and it was after 97. As an old SAC guy I reference all changes to when STRATCOM took over.

User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Here's a fun think tank idea here. Recent 747 designs have incorporated using the "unusable space" now above the passenger seating area aft of the upper deck for passenger use. This space should have sufficient head room for several computer stations. The "unused space" could house most of the equipment that the E-4's have now, but with serious upgrades and reduction in size. Then, also have the capability to transfer this information to the conference room during a "war room" situation. (audio, video, displays, etc.) I know that the VC-25's have some incredible equipment on board now, but with these upgrades maybe the next Air Force One could replace the mighty doomsday aircraft.

User currently offlineBT From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 92 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

I never knew that the e4 follwed airforce one around.

25 KBGRbillT : I doubt with only 8 years in the Corps you ever got to review any more than your small portion of SIOP. The best place for the the President to be if
26 Wjcandee : I recently saw a documentary which included numerous surprised and anxious reporters having their cameramen aim aloft while exclaiming, "That's the do
27 UA772IAD : " Albright, I think....anyway she just about flew the wings off of the E-4s. " Lol, not anymore! In fact she was on the same flight as me about two ro
28 MNeo : I BELIVE that the VC-25 is a mix between the 742 and the 744. I would think that the cockpit is fully glass and Probably has a missle warning system a
29 MontanaFL : SATL328G - I was stationed for 2 yrs at RAF Mildenhall, UK. Each time President Bush (41) made a trip to Europe, NEACP, at that time, was at RAF Milde
30 SATL382G : BillElliott9 - Why would Sec of State Albright be flying around on the E-4? She would have use of the C-137 or later on the C-32. The VC-137s had seri
31 MontanaFL : Thank you SATL328G. Very interesting and as you said, very embarassing.
32 Boeing Nut : I BELIVE that the VC-25 is a mix between the 742 and the 744. I would think that the cockpit is fully glass and Probably has a missle warning system a
33 Post contains images JetBlast : Hey guys, I didn't know the Doomsday Plane was also called the E-4, otherwise I would have looked here on A.net so forgive me for that! Anyway, thanks
34 Post contains links and images JetBlast : BTW, I thought this particular a/c looked like this- View Large View MediumPhoto © D.Lausberg Not the one pictured with "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
35 SWAbubba : In official communications the E-4 was referred to as NAOC while I was in STRATCOM prior to 1998. Unofficially acronyms have a way of hanging around l
36 Venus6971 : I can account for the serious problems of the Comm system on the C-137B's our two C models had up to date systems. The B models system was dated late
37 SATL382G : Venus, I was driving the forward stairtruck one night on an arrival when I heard and saw (from the cab) a certain Wing Commander get royally chewed by
38 Post contains links SATL382G : I just did some more digging on the C-32. Apparently the C-32 acquisition team won a Hammer award from the same Vice Pres. Talk about things that make
39 Venus6971 : Satl382g When I was there from 86 to 91 we had this rash of bad luck with all the C-137's out of the country or down with center fuel tank leaks, with
40 Sevenair : It was in Nice last week, i saw it, and never knew there was such a plane, until i saw it. Must have something to do with Condaleeza visiting Europe.
41 Post contains links Lurch : This has some nice photos of the E-4B http://www.theaviationzone.com/images/html/special/e4/page1.asp
42 Post contains images SATL382G : Mike, For what it's worth whatever you guys did to 974 worked. By the time I got there in '92 it was the aircraft you wanted for tail swap free depart
43 Venus6971 : Scott AKA SATL382G No we didn't get any incentive flights, when I flew it was a trip to Moscow in February or accompany the acft to Greenville Texas,
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