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Women Blue Angels Pilot  
User currently offlineQxeguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 81 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 7 hours ago) and read 17508 times:

Has there ever been a female Blue Angel Pilot? Is this even possible (in the Navy culture/ procedures sense...not the "a woman could never do that" sense)?


I fly boxes. Boxes don't bitch. Boxes don't barf. Boxes don't get drunk and do a number 2 on the beverage cart.
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 6 hours ago) and read 17514 times:

I've never heard of one. Probably just a matter of time at this point.

User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 17434 times:

Since the Blues don't wear G-suits it would probably be easier for a woman to perform the stunts especially one who has had a kid since their muscles in the pelvic region are stronger than men, just got done watching the military channels show about the Blues, it showed a Big Marine pilot who couldn't do the stunts because his body wasn't capable of doing the G's reguraly without the suit which showed up after winter trng which his body was saying stop and overriding his will.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17245 times:

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 2):
Big Marine pilot who couldn't do the stunts because his body wasn't capable of doing the G's reguraly without the suit which showed up after winter trng which his body was saying stop and overriding his will.

Felt sorry for the guy. His problem was very visible in the airshow community. Would suck to get all the way thru training and then have this happen.


User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17254 times:

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 3):
Felt sorry for the guy. His problem was very visible in the airshow community. Would suck to get all the way thru training and then have this happen.

Yeah, I felt sorry for him to. I saw one woman admitted to the Blue Angels squad on the show- but I believe she was going to be the flight surgeon. On the other hand there is probably not a whole lot of women fighter pilots to choose from in the fleet. I've heard of a few but not very many, anybody know how many female fighter pilots are out there in the Navy or Marines?



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17227 times:

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 2):
a Big Marine pilot who couldn't do the stunts because his body wasn't capable of doing the G's reguraly without the suit which showed up after winter trng which his body was saying stop and overriding his will.

That marine pilot had also been fighting off some sort bug for over a month. Which meant his body had been weakened therefore his tolerance for G's was reduced.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17242 times:

No, there has never been a female 'Blue Angel' show pilot. The biggest reason being it was not until recent years that women have been allow to fly active combat aircraft, and because of that are just now reaching the flight requirements to even apply for the team.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently onlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1594 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 17208 times:

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 1):
Probably just a matter of time at this point.

I completely agree. Women have broken down the barrier in almost every other military career field (I believe infantry, armor, and submarines are the only fields still closed to women), so I'd wager a guess and say that within 10 years, there will be a female pilot in the formation. There will be a lot of people opposed to it - as there were when women were allowed into the service academies, allowed to fly combat aircraft, etc., but it will happen, although I'm not sure who will have a female pilot first - the Blue Angels or the Thunderbirds. Probably when one team has one, the other team will have one.

Marc


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17146 times:

The thing I'm more afraid of is when a woman gets command of a squadron, then eventually a CVN...that is only a matter of time as well.

Not that I'm sexist per-se (I did see some very capable females flying those T-45's), it's just....I guess it's not what we're used to seeing? It was always a gentleman's club, now times have changed.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17140 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 8):
The thing I'm more afraid of is when a woman gets command of a squadron, then eventually a CVN...that is only a matter of time as well.

Whats wrong with that? If she is qualified for the position and her superiors see her fit to command the squadron, or a CVN, then I see no problem with it.

As you said, it is not what we are used to seeing, but then again neither is a female Sec. of State, etc.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently onlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1594 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17138 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 8):
The thing I'm more afraid of is when a woman gets command of a squadron, then eventually a CVN...that is only a matter of time as well.

I'm sure if you looked hard enough, there is a squadron somewhere commanded by a woman, and I see nothing wrong with that. Whether a person is a good leader doesn't depend on what they have between their legs.

Marc


User currently offlineDuce50boom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17088 times:

The SQ/CC of one of the A-10 units at DM is a woman, a very butch one I might add. She sued the DoD for wearing the abaya off base in saudi and caused a stink by wearing a male flight cap at her change of command. I gotta say, that woman's got balls!

My WG/CC here at SUU is a woman. Ops normal


User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17033 times:
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Latest Av Week says that two women applied to the Thunderbirds in 2004, but didn't make the cut.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16871 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 8):
Not that I'm sexist per-se (I did see some very capable females flying those T-45's), it's just....I guess it's not what we're used to seeing? It was always a gentleman's club, now times have changed.

Yes it's another example of things changing.. But a poignant remark I saw on a documentary about women in av (made by a woman) was that "The plane doesn't care who's flying it"

I think that just about says it all...


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16855 times:

I'm sick of this PC BS rampant in the US society. While I have no problem with women pilots flying anything, I am morally opposed to women in combat and therefore do not approve of women in fighter or attack aircraft. If your ship is carrying anything other than flares and chaff, I don't believe we as a Nation should send women in a potential for harms way, but these feelings of mine stem from personal moral and religious objections - the same ones that kept women out of combat roles until the Klinton/Aspin fiasco.

The case with Israel is always brought up in defense of women in combat roles, but that's not the case in the US where there are plenty of men available for combat duties. It always irritated me when I was in the Marines that the women PFT's were to a lesser standard and it is those same exact reasons why women have not been any more integrated into combat roles than they have. I don't like the hypocrisy that goes with picking and choosing which combat roles are and are not acceptable for women (infantry versus fighter jets for example,) and so I say omit them all from combat duties.

Personally, I think it's a sign of weakness when a Nation has to rely upon women to wage their battles, and I simply just do not agree with the current policy. If that's sexist, than that's someone else's problem.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16844 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 14):
moral and religious objections

I'm sure the Iraqis who were killed by female fighter pilots dropping ordinance on them had objections to being killed by a woman...

I'm sorry, but religion (or lack there of) is no excuse.. We aren't 'dependent' on women to fill these roles, they volunteered, just like the WACs in WWII. Are they taking a much bigger risk? Absolutely!! Are they Ill informed, NO. Show me a female combat pilot who thinks it's impossible to get raped, and I'll shut up.

When you start talking about a draft where women are 'forced' to join the military in a frontline role, ok, I'll listen to "moral and religious objections". But so long as women are doing the role of their own free will, don't take shots at them and hide behind antiquarian values.


User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 16834 times:

I think that it would be a coup for the Blues to get a female. Talk about a recruiting dream. But on the other hand its like female firefighters, they need to be able to do the job. I dont care what sex of the firefighter is as long as they carry me OUT of the burning buliding


Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineSWAbubba From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 16818 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 8):
The thing I'm more afraid of is when a woman gets command of a squadron, then eventually a CVN...that is only a matter of time as well.

One of my old skippers was the gator on the Enterprise, now she's doing her deep draft command.

The times have indeed changed...


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 16786 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
I'm sorry, but religion (or lack there of) is no excuse..

Well tell that to the now deceased Pope John Paul II, he objected to women priests as well as women in combat, but it's not because he was sexist. I've long since given up on trying to change people's minds on this issue, but I'm sick of caving into the PC BS of today's society. I don't agree with women in combat; I don't want my mother, sister, or daughter slingin' mud, even though in certain limited roles, they can press a button as well as any trained ape can.

And if you want to talk about WWII, I don't think the military should be a place to test a social hypothesis such as is the case with the gender integration of the female into the combat arm. When you look at the amount of civilian casualties in WWII committed by all sides, including the USofA, it is pathetic that even with the massive technological advancements in our weapons of war, our society likely wouldn't permit the successful conclusion by our forefathers in WWII if it had to be fought today because the PC police and their lawyers have already degraded our ability to wage war so far that as is often the case in our courts, the guilty have more rights than the victims and there are too many that would just as soon turn over the keys to the Nation before "offending" our enemies, but that's a topic of a thesis for an entire different forum and time.


User currently offlineFtrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 16784 times:

Funny this topic came up, cause I heard in my ready room that the blues are actually looking for a woman for next years team. I doubt they actually want one, but higher ups are probably pushing for it.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16754 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
Well tell that to the now deceased Pope John Paul II

He died because JUST like you and me our time will come and go. I respect the fact that PJPII stuck up for what he believed in, but NEVER once whined about, or cared about "PC".

There is a BIG diference between "PC" and practicality.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
they can press a button as well as any trained ape can.

I suppose you don't think we (men and women) aren't just slightly smarter apes?

I would rather be an Ape, at least I wouldn't have to worry about houses, money or people that pretend to know more then they actually do.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16733 times:

As long as men are attracted to women the potentiality of distraction is simply not worth it on the battlefield - in my opinion. Believe what you want, I'm not trying to change your opinion and I'm not berating you for not sharing my opinon as well.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16727 times:

AirRyan,

I don't mean this to be personal. I love good heated theological discussions.

If I have said something that you interpreted as being directed at you personally, I am sorry. I certainly try to avoid the childish games that go on in other forms where people say 'such and such is an idiot for saying...' That's not my style

I'll take shots at what your saying, but maybe one of these days we will have a beer and say 'I don't like your ideas, but your an ok person'

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 21):
As long as men are attracted to women the potentiality of distraction is simply not worth it on the battlefield

Aaaaaaa further evidence that men are a weak animal.

The only reason this is a problem is if they are being unprofessional. Professionals respect eachother, and the need to focus on the task at hand.
Professionals would wait until they are in a situation when lives aren't on the line to allow feelings to occur, not let it interfere with their duty.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16684 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 22):
don't mean this to be personal. I love good heated theological discussions.

If I have said something that you interpreted as being directed at you personally, I am sorry. I certainly try to avoid the childish games that go on in other forms where people say 'such and such is an idiot for saying...' That's not my style

That's good to go by me, the first thing I learned whilst in the Marines was not to let words offend me, but this is just the first time I have ever paid to use a message forum and I want to lose my $$$ in my first week of posting!

I know the Air Force prides themselves on professionalism and was part of the reason why they were so quick to comply once Aspin handed down the new order, but even the USAF has had their dose of fraternization and the black eyes at the AFA only stem from that same fundamental lack of integrity rampant in our society by far too many.

My point is based not really off anything very academically tangible, but rather more so just the culmination of my own theories and hypotheses. Hypocrisy is a pet peeve of mine and in the military it has all the less value than it does in society, so I don't like the hypocrisy of picking and choosing which roles women can and cannot serve in combat in, so that's one of the reasons why I don't like the current policy because we pick and choose between fighter jets and not tanks, etc.

Personally I simply do not admire, find attractive, or what have you masculine attributes in females, and that is what we ask them to do when we accept women to participate in combat. No matter how you try and justify it, there are and will always be biological differences between the two and personally, I don't want to encourage anything that might further blend the two together.

It's the same thing in women's athletics. While I'm not against women athletics in any way, when the level of competition gets so fierce like that of what it becomes in college basketball and even softball, that's why I don't watch. WNBA?! I'd rather watch Snail Races on ESPN3. In that regard, Title IX is a joke in that it ignores the reality of fiscal dollars and subsidizes a program, and in theory an entire sports league out of fairness - since when did they teach anything about being fair in business school?

My theory is that so long as men are attracted to women, women will never be treated "equally" by those men because they will always go out of their way to treat them "better," at least in context and to a certain point; (I'm talking about everything from opening doors to the entire polite and courteous routines men put on for women that they are interested in.) I know that is where your code of professionalism is supposed to step in, but the facts are that there will always be those cases that overstep the boundaries, and right or wrong, love and all that stuff associated with sex is just not an ingredient that should be anywhere near combat - that's the same reason why the military doesn't want to accept homosexuality - they just don't want to deal with it or any possible ramifications stemming from it. That's my belief as well - why even pose for the potential when you simply do not have to? "Fair" is a four letter F-word and too often in order to be fair to one, you have to take away from another.

My bottom line is - I like women the way they are, and don't encourage anything that changes that. If we could financially warrant to let women train in fighter jets just to fly in the flight demonstration teams, than I would have no problems with women flying combat aircraft, but since a an F-18 and F-16 are made simply to wage war, I don't care of women fighter pilots. Like I say, it's just in my opinion and I have long since given up on trying to legislate my opinion upon others. If someone asks, I like you say enjoy good debate, but I don't claim to be any more right than the next guy, it's just all in my own opinion.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16678 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 23):

This is an EXCELLENT response, and I will reply Fully as soon as I can!!!

(Something about having to do work to pay the bills!!)


25 Post contains images TedTAce : I think the Navy had something called Tailhook, but I think what we are both citing are non combat situations. The only reason 'things' are "rampant"
26 AirRyan : I understand what you are saying TedTAce and rationally and logically I offer much of a very credible rebuttal, but for some reason I still cringe at
27 DeltaMD11 : I'm of the school that if you meet all requirements whether they be physical or mental, then you should have an equal chance to get the position regar
28 Post contains images TedTAce : I just want to make sure I understand... Ultimately you don't agree with women in the military as volunteers because it means they 'have to serve' if
29 TedTAce : Well I slept on it and the best I could do is the following: Women can volunteer for anything at anytime (draft or not). If they want to volunteer for
30 AirRyan : It's just this whole seemingly futile attempt to make everything "fair" in our society that often times we begin to diverty on a tangent that takes us
31 SATL382G : Show me a military personnel slot that is "capture safe" and I'll show you a slot that could be done better, cheaper, and more efficiently by a contr
32 Post contains images TedTAce : What does this have to do with being strapped into a Jet pulling 9 G's? IE If the female can stay @9G's as long or longer then a guy; physical stuff
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