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AlphaJet- RAF?  
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5714 posts, RR: 44
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5571 times:
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Pardon my ignorance, I was unaware that the RAF ever operated the AlphaJet, is this merely an incorrectly liveried exhibit or did the RAF operate the type at some stage


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Photo © U. Lokowand



Regards

Chris


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGhostbase From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 354 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

Nice photo! I checked with the 3rd Edition European Wrecks & Relics and it lists this Alpha Jet as "Preserved, Replica, Marked as '33'". It does not have a CN listed.

The Alpha Jet was never operated by the Royal Air Force and certainly never in Red Arrows markings! We do have a few former German Alpha Jets over here but if I recall correctly they are operated by the Ministry of Defence (DERA) out of Boscombe Down and technically are nothing to do with the Royal Air Force.

 ghost 



"I chase my dreams but I never seem to arrive"
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

I guess this Alpha Jet is supposed to represent a Folland Gnat or BAe Hawk - two aircraft types, which were actually flown by the Red Arrows.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5467 times:
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Thats an interesting picture. Not only is the Alpha Jet in colors it never flew in, but there is also a BF 109 in the background with a swastika on the tail. I thought this was banned in Germany.

User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14061 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5441 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 3):
Thats an interesting picture. Not only is the Alpha Jet in colors it never flew in, but there is also a BF 109 in the background with a swastika on the tail. I thought this was banned in Germany.

Nazi symbols can be shown in public if they are not being used for Nazi propaganda purposes, e.g. on museum artifacts or in movies or theatre (e.g. Schindler´s List), or for educational and scientific purposes (e.g. history lessons in school).

Jan

Jan


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
Nazi symbols can be shown in public if they are not being used for Nazi propaganda purposes, e.g. on museum artifacts or in movies or theatre (e.g. Schindler´s List), or for educational and scientific purposes (e.g. history lessons in school).

Glad to hear that.

For a whil,e I undestand you couldn't get a model airplane kit over there with the correct WWII markings because of the sensibilities regarding the swastika.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

Off to work now.

I will get the details of the DEFRA Alpha Jets tonight.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 5):
For a whil,e I undestand you couldn't get a model airplane kit over there with the correct WWII markings because of the sensibilities regarding the swastika.

for a long time. Didn't know the laws had been relaxed, but maybe they haven't in that regard.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5367 times:

DPA/ETPS Boscombe Down

ZJ645 98+62
ZJ647 98+71

DPA/AFD/QinetiQ Lanbedr

ZJ646 98+55
ZJ649 98+73

DPA/AFD/QinetiQ Boscombe Down

ZJ648 98+09
ZJ650 98+35

DPA/QinetiQ Boscombe Down for spares

ZJ651 41+42
ZJ652 41+09
ZJ653 40+22
ZJ654 41+02
ZJ655 41+19
ZJ656 41+40


Source Military Aircraft Markings 2004 ISBN 0-7110-3004-9


User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14061 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 5):
Glad to hear that.

For a whil,e I undestand you couldn't get a model airplane kit over there with the correct WWII markings because of the sensibilities regarding the swastika.

Concerning model kits, the laws are still the same, but e.g. it would make no sense to censor out the Nazi symbols out off a historical photgraph of a Nazi ralley in a school history book.
The museum is an accepted institution, so they´ll have a special permit, and it is highly unlikely that neo-Nazis will use this Messerschmitt for a public demonstration.
IMO these laws, which are BTW based on Allied rules from just after WW2, are sometimes counterproductive. E.g. I sometimes get into discussions with, often American, people, who bombard me with quotes from Hitler´s "Mein Kampf" taken out of context to show that the Nazis weren´t that bad at all. Unfortunately I can´t get hold of a copy of this book for my poison cabinet, to disprove them and to verify what they said (BTW, possession of Nazi propaganda material is not a crime, but public display is).

Jan

Jan

[Edited 2005-05-11 08:24:21]

User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5333 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 3):
I thought this was banned in Germany.

The swastika as a symbol is far older than the whole Nazi-Ideology. In many areas of the world it is a symbol for fertility. If you make a trip to India (which is really recommendable!) you will quickly see that the country is full of them.

Quoting Ghostbase (Reply 1):
We do have a few former German Alpha Jets over here but if I recall correctly they are operated by the Ministry of Defence (DERA) out of Boscombe Down and technically are nothing to do with the Royal Air Force.

The German air force had stored the remaining of its originally 175 Alpha Jets since they were outphased at the beginning of the 90s. The British bought 12 Alpha Jets from the German air force for test purposes in 1999. Price was 50.000 DM (~25.000€) for each of the non-airworthy aircrafts. It was estimated that 1-2 million DM (~0.5-1 million €) per plane were necessary to bring them back into a air-worthy condition.

Some else went to Portugal (~50), Thailand (25) and the RedBull-Team (4). Further more some Alpha-Jets engines went to Russia in exchange for some MiG-29 engines.

brgds,
Jan

[Edited 2005-05-11 14:15:22]

User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14061 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 10):
The swastika as a symbol is far older than the whole Nazi-Ideology. In many areas of the world it is a symbol for fertility. If you make a trip to India (which is really recommendable!) you will quickly see that the country is full of them.

I know this very well, but here in Germany the swastika (especially the clockwise version standing on a corner) is completely connected to Nazism. It really depends on the context.

Jan


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