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User currently offlineFtrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

Here is the list from Fox News...

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/appendix_c.pdf

Looks like Reserve Centers have taken much of the brunt of this one...

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

Very good list, but you will need Acrobat Reader to view it.....


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineIADBGO From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

The list is out and for my office at least it is pretty good. The only VA base to go is Ft Monroe, although it is spelled wrong on the list. But I am surprised about NAB New London. The General Dynamics up there it is interesting that they are moving it. I wonder where they are going to move all of those subs. My guess would be NAB Norfolk...although I can't imagine where they are going to put the subs. The other thing I wonder is where they are going to put the submarine school. My parents have some fond memories of the time they spent along up there when my dad was in officers sub school.
It will be interesting to see how the whole BRAC process plays out

IADBGO


User currently offlineB747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2498 times:

It appears that the majority of the closings are reserve centers, DFAS, and Navy recruiting. The big one in my opinion are Cannon, and Ellsworth AFB's, Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, and I know alot of people on here were speculating, or worried about Willow Grove.

Overall not as bad as I thought this round might be, better than the 1993 list which closed so many AFB's, and overseas locations.

Looks like they are just trimming the fat off the DOD.

Brian



At Pope, where not happy, until you're not happy!
User currently offlineTnsaf From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2471 times:

If they really want to trim the fat they need to privatize the remaining Air Logistics Centers.


700 hours and counting...
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Interseting that Kulis is getting nailed, that has been below the radar of everybody here, everybody was flipped out over Ft, Richardson.

But thinking back on it, there was some discussion about moving AKANG lift and rescue over to Elemendorf so I shouldn't be that surprised.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

I just read the Anchorage Daily Worker's take on it, and didn't realize that Eilson is all but being shut down, going to "warm" status with only a caretaker staff on site.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/6485258p-6365559c.html

Damm that surprises me since most of Alaska's training space is more easily accessed by Eilson then it is from Elmendorf.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 2):
But I am surprised about NAB New London. The General Dynamics up there it is interesting that they are moving it. I wonder where they are going to move all of those subs

Kings Bay and Pearl Harbor?..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

I have a couple of questions , first they listed Willow Grove Naval Air station. Does that include the whole base, Air National Guard and Marines will leave?..

The listed Pittsburgh International Air Force reserve, does that include the large PA Air National Guard base?..

Also what do they mean by realign, they listed Lakehurst and Brunswick NAS for realignment. What does that mean?..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12173 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

Quoting B747 (Reply 3):
The big one in my opinion are Cannon, and Ellsworth AFB's, Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, and I know alot of people on here were speculating, or worried about Willow Grove.

It makes no sense to close a B-1 base (and place all B-1s at Dyess), or the only SSN/SSBN overhaul/refit shipyard on the east coast. Cannon also needs to survive.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Also what do they mean by realign, they listed Lakehurst and Brunswick NAS for realignment. What does that mean?..

That means they will add or delete some military and cilivan positions.

BRAC is a political process and usually does not make military sense. This is the 5th BRAC, and none have made sense, it just allowed Congress to say, closing Base XXX isn't my fault or idea.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Myself, I was surprised to see NAS Atlanta on the list; I'd always figured that if it was ever on the list Dobbins ARB would be as well. No surprise that the Navy Supply Corps school up @ Athens is on the list. I'm sure UGA would be glad to have that part of campus back. I'm kind of surprised that Fort McPherson/Ft. Gillem is on the list, especially considering the amount of money that has been spent on new buildings over the last few years at both forts, and the fact that several HQs are based between the two bases (Ft Mac and Ft. Gillem are a combined fort, sharing some of the same command staff.) They were targeted in the last round and survived, but when Sam Nunn retired, we knew that we'd get hit hard by the next BRAC list. I'm very surprised by one Georgia base not on the list, the Marine Corps Logistics Base @ Albany. The base is a few hours inland from the nearest port, and the nearest Marine Corps bases are in North Carolina.

User currently offlineWingnut135 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2350 times:

Dear God why not Seymour?!?!?! Kidding, sort of. Ever since I got here last summer I heard rumor after rumor that the 15s would leave and tankers would move in. Oh well, that's why they have an equal list.

The thing that really got my attention is the number of people being brought back from overseas, 14,000+. It doesn't say exactly from where, so I'm wondering if that means closing a lot of the little Army posts in Germany. There are so many of them and they are so spread out. You can barely go 20 minutes on any autobahn without seeing a sign for one. I can't imagine seeing anything around Ramstein/K-town go, but the ones further out. Rhein Main is done at the end of the year, and Spangdahlem has grown since one of the previous BRAC rounds. This is all just my opinion.

Wingnut



A good friend will get you out of jail. A real friend will be there with you saying, "Damn that was fun!"
User currently offlineEchster From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

I'm kind of surprised that Fort McPherson/Ft. Gillem is on the list, especially considering the amount of money that has been spent on new buildings over the last few years at both forts, and the fact that several HQs are based between the two bases (Ft Mac and Ft. Gillem are a combined fort, sharing some of the same command staff.)

We used to joke about getting new buildings. The government isn't a business and doesn't necessarily care about new or used. I know of bases and projects that had money appropriated, but the bases were closed in BRAC. One base even had a commissary that was 60% completed when the last troops left through the gates. It was still completed!

Mac and Gillem were closed because of your first comment. All they have are HQs. They have no "go-to-war" units. Therefore, their staffs can do the same work at a larger base or fort without the costs of running an entire installation.

The thing that really got my attention is the number of people being brought back from overseas, 14,000+.

That figure is incorrect. The DOD has said numerous times they are bringing 70,000 troops home from all over the globe. Along with those numbers are the 100,000+ family members. Both the Army's Divisions from Germany (1st Armored and 1st Infantry) are coming home. I believe the 1AD ends up at Fort Bliss near El Paso and the 1ID returns to Fort Riley near Manhattan, Kansas. The Army's plan is to station a Stryker Brigade Combat Team or an Infantry BCT in Europe for up to 6 months at a time.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

I was actually surprised GFK AFB is still operating. That would seem to be a better canidate for shutdown, and then moving the tankers to Minot or Ellsworth.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
I was actually surprised GFK AFB is still operating. That would seem to be a better canidate for shutdown, and then moving the tankers to Minot or Ellsworth

They are staying open - but for all intent and purposes they are going to "close":

-81 % active duty personnel cut
-Tankers gone
-Potential UAV mission

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/11642291.htm


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2267 times:

I just checked the BRAC website and found out some more information about changes in my area (NJ, NY, PA, DE).

Willow Grove JRB will close,

The Navy and Marine Corps aircraft and personel stationed at Willow Grove (C-130s, C-9s, P-3s, Ch-53s) will move to McGuire AFB, also personel and some equipment from the Newcastle Delaware Air National Guard will move to McGuire AFB.

They will make room for these new units by retiring the NJ ANG's KC-135E's.

Two Army Reserve Aviation units will move to Ft.Dix (Lakehurst?..), as will a Marine Corps Reserve attack helicopter squadron from Johnstown PA.

Atlantic City ANG base (177th FW) will retire all but 3 F-16s (which will go to Vermont ANG) and receive 24 F-15s, the F-15s will come from Otis MA (12 aircraft), Portland ANG (6 aircraft) and St.Louis (6 aircraft).



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Why should Cannon stay open, it doubles up duties that other bases can deal with? I'm surprised the AF didn't lose more bases and ALCs with the surplus capacity we have. Ellsworth can easily be consoladated to Dyess. It is a MX issue. Look at AWACS, E-3s were to be at the 4 corners (makes way more sense for ops) but MX drove it to one "superbase" stateside. Expect other airframes to do the same-many already have.

Besides Brooks, Cannon, and Ellsworth-
Other AF bases being realigned and losing 1000s-
Eilson, Shepard, Grand Forks, and Lackland.
Ellington Field in Houston is also losing its F-16s and will getting rotating alerts (like Tyndall's F-16s). Other Units are moving to Ellington, and state politicians want it to become a JRB like Carswell. Time will tell.
Will Rogers-OKC is losing its C-130s and Altus is losing its C-5s to "Kelly" but getting C-17s. Just a few highlights.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I've been called worse


User currently offlineC17loadmstr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 16):
Will Rogers-OKC is losing its C-130s and Altus is losing its C-5s to "Kelly" but getting C-17s

There have always been rumors that C-5's would go to Kelly and the 56th would become a 2nd C-17 squadron. Great, this means their manning will go up with more non-vol's.....  banghead 


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
I have a couple of questions , first they listed Willow Grove Naval Air station. Does that include the whole base, Air National Guard and Marines will leave?..

That'd be my guess...send all those units elsewhere...I have a feeling that if Willow Grove doesn't get spared the ax in the committees, and is forced to close, it will go the way of El Toro and be demolished and redeveloped...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Damm that surprises me since most of Alaska's training space is more easily accessed by Eilson then it is from Elmendorf

Surprised me as well. F-16 Interceptors there are supposed to go. AK ANG 168th ARF will stay, but if the base is just "warm" I don't see why. Now I'll be the first to admit, Eielson is a shit hole, but it's got it's uses.

Primarily all the training space.

As for Kulis, no surprise there - despite what Maj Mike Haller (PA for AK ANG and resident talking National Guard pin-head) has to say. My brother is stationed there and they've been trying to move to E-Dorf for 5 years. Better for all concerned. Turn Kulis over to some private concern. TOo bad they've spent $40million there in the last 5 years rebuilding or building all new facilities.

Not as many jobs will be lost in Anchorage as the Channel 2 news idiots announced either. The 479 jobs at Kulis will go to E-Dorf.

Interestingly, I find combining E-Dorf and Ft. Richardson infrastructure a bit odd. While they are nrighbors, both have significantly different missions, and with the oncoming Stryker brigade, will change even more.

No big deal.

I suspect, Uncle Ted will solve the Eielson problem before the recommendations ever get to Congress.


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

Here, STT is what the BRAC has in store for Willow Grove, thanks to GarnetPalmetto for helping me out with this...looks like when all is said and done all that will be left will be a token Reserve and Support facility...

Summary:
- Navy and Marine squadrons all moving to McGwire
- 111th FW disbanded, A-10's will be redistributed across the nation to Boise, Martin State, and Selfridge ANGB
-Support units sent to a mix of MCAS Cherry Point, Fort Dix/McGwire, and Eglin
-----------------------------------------
Actual Recommendation Text ( http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/vol_I_parts_1_and_2.html )

Recommendation: Close Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base Willow Grove, PA. Relocate all Navy and Marine Corps squadrons, their aircraft and necessary personnel, equipment and support to McGuire Air Force Base, Cookstown, NJ. Relocate the minimum amount of manpower and equipment to support intermediate maintenance workload and capacity for Tire and Wheel, non-destruction inspections, and Aviation Life Support System equipment to McGuire Air Force Base. Relocate intermediate maintenance workload and capacity for Aircraft Components, Aircraft Engines, Fabrication & Manufacturing, and Support Equipment to Fleet Readiness Center East, Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, NC. Deactivate the 111th Fighter Wing (Air National Guard) and relocate assigned A-10 aircraft to the 124th Wing (Air National Guard), Boise Air Terminal Air Guard Station, Boise, ID (three primary aircraft authorized); 175th Wing (Air National Guard), Martin State Airport Air Guard Station, Baltimore, MD, (three primary aircraft authorized); 127th Wing (Air National Guard), Selfridge Air National Guard Base, Mount Clemens, MI (three primary aircraft authorized) and retired (six primary aircraft authorized). Relocate Armed Forces Reserve Center Expeditionary Combat Support manpower to Eglin Air Force Base, FL. Relocate Co A/228th Aviation to Fort Dix, Trenton, NJ. Relocate Reserve Intelligence Area 16 to Fort Dix. Establish an enclave for the Army Reserve units remaining on or relocating to Willow Grove and the Air National Guard 270th Engineering Installation Squadron.
----------------------------------------

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5423 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2165 times:

Also, in reading the recommendations for realignment, it looks like McPeake's composite wing concept is truly dead, as the flagship composite wing, the 366th is slated to have their F-15Cs sent to Nellis, Jacksonville, and retirement, their F-16s sent to McEntire ANGB, Nellis, and reserve inventory, and get Elmendorf's F-15Es to become a Strike Eagle only wing.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Here's some more about local bases from the Asbury Park Press;

http://app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050514/NEWS/505140348

" New Jersey's three neighboring Navy, Army Reserve and Air Force bases would be merged into the biggest joint military installation in the Northeast under the Pentagon's base realignment proposals,"

"The 40,000 acres at Fort Dix, McGuire Air Force Base and Lakehurst Naval Air Engineering Station would be designated as a "joint pre-deployment mobilization site," and the missions there expanded through the transfer of aircraft and hundreds of jobs from smaller bases in neighboring states, according to military and congressional officials"

"Defense planners want to merge administration for all three bases under Air Force command, but leave Army Reserve training and Navy aircraft engineering programs intact."

"Fort Dix stands to get Army, Navy, and Marine Reserve units from locations in New Jersey and four other states, including a number of organizations from Willow Grove, Pa., where combined naval air station and reserve center is targeted for closure."

"If the units are consolidated, Fort Dix neighbors can expect to "see a lot more helicopters," said retired Army Reserve Col. Michael Warner, a former Fort Dix commander who heads the Burlington County bases committee.

New aviation facilities could be built at West Field, a portion of McGuire that lies along its fence with Fort Dix, Saxton said. While it's not mentioned in connection with the aircraft transfers, it's likely that local supporters could propose Lakehurst as an interim destination. The Navy base is already on its way to be the new home for the New Jersey National Guard's helicopters"

"McGuire too would get aircraft and crews from Willow Grove, New Castle, Del. and an airfield near Johnstown, Pa."

"Air Guard to get new jets

The New Jersey Air National Guard would be re-equipped with bigger, faster twin-engine F-15 Eagle fighters, with two dozen jets to replace 15 older, single-engine F-16 Falcons at the 177th Fighter Wing near Atlantic City International Airport in Atlantic County.

"The Department of Defense report to BRAC calls for the retirement of aging KC-135E Stratotankers flown by the 108th Air Refueling Wing at McGuire, but doesn't specify replacement aircraft for the wing. Saxton said the Air Force plans to replace those jets with improved KC-135R models, and late Friday he was seeking more information from the Pentagon."

"Lakehurst realignment

The "realignment" recommendation for Lakehurst means "the installation management will become responsibility of the Air Force" through neighboring McGuire, said Capt. Mark L. Bathrick, the Navy Lakehurst commander."As a former tenant commander myself (on other bases), I never really cared who turned on the lights and kept the roads paved, as long as it got done."

[Edited 2005-05-14 21:46:14]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7423 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
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Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
The Navy and Marine Corps aircraft and personel stationed at Willow Grove (C-130s, C-9s, P-3s, Ch-53s) will move to McGuire AFB, also personel and some equipment from the Newcastle Delaware Air National Guard will move to McGuire AFB.

Well the entire reserve P-3 community(COMPATRESWING) will disappear in 2-4 years, as evidenced by VP-66 disolving and VP-64 transitoning to the C-130. The active units are retiring their P-3s and with the low-time airframes the reserve squadron have, it's ripe for the pickin's.
Squadrons that will be gone soon,
VP62 at NIP
VP94 at NGB
VP65 at NTD
VP69 at NUW
Most of the SelRes billets will go to augment units of these active squadrons.
Willow Grove was the first guinea pig. I was hoping this day wouldn't come, but it seems it has. NXX was a great place to be stationed. I'm hoping that VR52 and will stay in business



Made from jets!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

I know NY State politicians will not pit one facility vs another however in this instance I feel Western New York State needs the jobs and activity associated with Niagra Falls Air base more so than Orange County needs the Newburgh NY ANG base.

I would move the NY ANG's C-5s to Niagra Falls and close the Newburgh facility, and move the Marine Corps KC-130 squadron based at Newburgh/Stewart either to Niagra or McGuire.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 L-188 : Yup, 5 years ago was about right for when the rumors of the AKANG getting C-17's and having to move to EDF started. Some will but not all, figure sec
26 Post contains images DeltaGuy : I was surprised to see so many F-16's being retired as they have suggested in the report. Here in Jacksonville, the 125th was flying (then new) F-16's
27 STT757 : The NJ ANG 177th FW who fly out of Atlantic City currently fly 15 F-16s, they are to retire 12 of those and send the remaining three to the Vermont A
28 Echster : I wouldn't call the F-16 moves a surprise. The USAF is spending a whole lotta dough to keep them maintained and in the air. I know I read a story pos
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