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Misuse Of The Term "Air Force One"  
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

It drives me crazy when people assume a VC-25 is Air Force One.  banghead 

This IS NOT Air Force One:

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Photo © Alejandro Pérez



These ARE Air Force One:

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Photo © Jeremy Irish/Cactus Wings
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Photo © David J Madzelonka



What's the problem?

Mark

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJaybird From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6803 times:
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Air Force One is ANY plane that the U.S. President is on .. Piper Cub, 747, whatever .. it's not a SPECIFIC aircraft - it's the aircraft a President happens to be in on any given moment ..

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6763 times:

Air Force One is ANY plane that the U.S. President is on

Air Force One is any US AIR FORCE aircraft that the President is on, I don't think they own any J-3 Cub's...  Wink



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17030 posts, RR: 67
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6748 times:

So the world is full of ignorant people who don't care. YAwn...


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6697 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Thread starter):
It drives me crazy when people assume a VC-25 is Air Force One.

It drives me a bit bonkers when folks who know relatively little about the situation get upset and drive threads that go on and on about what the damn callsign is.

When I worked the Air Force 1 detail at Andrews it was always the Air Force 1 detail regardless of wether the President was aboard the aircraft or not. If you asked the cop at the gate how to get to the Air Force 1 complex he could help you -- If you asked for the SAM 28000 complex he'd look at you funny.

The crew on the aircraft always refered to the VC25 as either Air Force 1, or Air Force 1 (Primary) and Air Force 1 (Backup). For short they used Primary and Backup. This applies to common conversation only. When the pilot talks to tower he is going to use "Air Force 1" or "SAM 2x000" for a callsign.

Hey check this out. It's even called Air Force 1 on the aircrafts website -- I can guarantee you the Prez was not aboard when they took the photo at Rushmore.

http://public.andrews.amc.af.mil/vc25a.htm

So lets take a deep breath and remember the following:

Air Force 1 is...

A. The callsign used by an Air Force aircraft that the President is aboard.

and

B. The popular name for the Air Force aircraft that is reserved for the Presidents use, the VC25. Any of the big shots in D.C. can order up a junket in a C-32, they can not ask for the VC25. The VC25 is controlled/tasked thru the White House Military Office for White House use.

any questions?

[Edited 2005-05-16 03:49:21]

User currently offlineOzLAME From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6677 times:

Is it the case that Dubya's helicopter is 'Marine One'? I guess that the aircraft that took him to the carrier for his 'major combat is over' speech was 'Navy One' for the day, would that be correct? If he happened to go up in a Coast Guard C-130 would that be 'Coast Guard One'?


Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6662 times:

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 5):
I guess that the aircraft that took him to the carrier for his 'major combat is over' speech was 'Navy One' for the day, would that be correct?

Yes, indeed. The a/c was called "Navy One". In fact, I think they actually painted it on the side.

Quoting Jaybird (Reply 1):
Air Force One is ANY plane that the U.S. President is on .. Piper Cub, 747, whatever .. it's not a SPECIFIC aircraft - it's the aircraft a President happens to be in on any given moment ..

A civilian aircraft with the prez on board = EXECUTIVE ONE.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5386 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 5):
Is it the case that Dubya's helicopter is 'Marine One'?

Only if it's a Marine Corps helicopter. If it was an Air Force helo it would be Air Force One or if it were a US Army UH-60, it would be Army One.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Thread starter):
It drives me crazy when people assume a VC-25 is Air Force One.

Details... Wink

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 5):
Is it the case that Dubya's helicopter is 'Marine One'? I guess that the aircraft that took him to the carrier for his 'major combat is over' speech was 'Navy One' for the day, would that be correct?

All correct, now who knows the story as to why they started using these callsigns??? I'll give you a hint, it had to do with a close call.


User currently offlineNBGskygod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 811 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

If I remember right, it was a trip when Kennedy was flying somewhere, and a PanAm (or other now defunct carrier) had a nearly similar callsign to the presidential aircraft.


"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

Quoting NBGskygod (Reply 9):
If I remember right, it was a trip when Kennedy was flying somewhere, and a PanAm (or other now defunct carrier) had a nearly similar callsign to the presidential aircraft.

Close - from Wikipedia:

The call signs were established for security purposes during the administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower, the first American president to have been a pilot in his own right. The change stemmed from a 1953 incident where an Eastern Airlines commercial flight (8610) had the same callsign as a flight the President was on (Air Force 8610). The planes accidentally entered the same airspace, and after the incident the unique call sign "Air Force One" was made for the presidential aircraft.


User currently offlineKevinSmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5762 times:

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 5):
I guess that the aircraft that took him to the carrier for his 'major combat is over' speech was 'Navy One' for the day, would that be correct?

This is that aircraft. It has since been retired and placed on display at the National Museum of Naval Aviation.



Quoting Jhooper (Reply 6):
The a/c was called "Navy One". In fact, I think they actually painted it on the side

Sure did. You can see it in the picture just above the VS-35 towards the tail. It's hard to make out but it also says "George W Bush Commander in Chief" under the pilot's window.

[Edited 2007-02-03 06:21:22]

[Edited 2007-02-03 06:21:59]

User currently offlineUnattendedBag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5758 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 10):
from Wikipedia:

a 1953 incident where an Eastern Airlines commercial flight (8610) had the same callsign as a flight the President was on (Air Force 8610).

What was an Eastern Airlines aircraft doing using an Air Force callsign?



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 12):
What was an Eastern Airlines aircraft doing using an Air Force callsign?

The Eastern flight was using Eastern 8610 as a call sign. The confusion resulted from the same numbers being used.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5707 times:

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 6):
A civilian aircraft with the prez on board = EXECUTIVE ONE.

I know this will raise a red flag, but I have also heard this call sign used for the First Lady as well when she flew on the C-37 (BBJ) into STL.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineDc8jet From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5677 times:

Most likely 8610 was the Eastern flight number. 8610 was the tail number of
the VC-121 that Eisenhower was on. Airliners use their flight number as part of their call sign while other aircraft use their tail number or registration.


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5641 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 14):
I have also heard this call sign used for the First Lady

Are you sure it wasn't Executive One Foxtrot?


User currently offlineDeskflier From Sweden, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 6):
A civilian aircraft with the prez on board = EXECUTIVE ONE.

So, if GWB decides to help out on the family ranch, by doing some airborne crop-dusting, the crop-duster he is flying becomes Executive One?



How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 17):
the crop-duster he is flying becomes Executive One?

This is correct. Now the likelyhood of that happening is another question.  Smile


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5469 times:

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 4):
So lets take a deep breath and remember the following:

Air Force 1 is...

A. The callsign used by an Air Force aircraft that the President is aboard.

and

B. The popular name for the Air Force aircraft that is reserved for the Presidents use, the VC25. Any of the big shots in D.C. can order up a junket in a C-32, they can not ask for the VC25. The VC25 is controlled/tasked thru the White House Military Office for White House use.

Couldn't have said it better myself. If the White House Loans one of the aircraft out say for a pres. funeral, many will refer to it as SAM 28000 or 29000.

Although, from what I remember of Ronald Regan and Gerald Ford's Funerals, SAM 29000 was loaned by the White House for both, at the authorization of George W. Bush

edit: Tail Numbers

[Edited 2007-02-05 22:54:42]


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5451 times:
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Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 19):
Couldn't have said it better myself. If the White House Loans one of the aircraft out say for a pres. funeral, many will refer to it as SAM 28000 or 29000.

Although, from what I remember of Ronald Regan and Gerald Ford's Funerals, SAM 29000 was loaned by the White House for both, at the authorization of George W. Bush

Very Cool! Someone remembered a good point from the other thread. Even the aircraft used for Ford & Reagans funerals were tasked by the White House so never left the White House Military Office' operational control.

ZANL188



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