MauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2420 posts, RR: 35 Posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1791 times:
Hi, when searching true the database, i came up with pictures of the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29B fighter jet... im not really into russian Crafts , especially not militairy ones... but i think its a cool plane and i wan't to know some things about it...
-who, besides the hungarian army orderd the plane (and how much)
-how much does the hungarian army have on order?
-how does it presents compared to the western Fighter jets (as well as the older F-15/16 as to the F-18 and eurofighter)
-how old is it now?
-is it more for ground attacks or more fore Air to air?
LY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1782 times:
First MiG-29 prototype flew in 1978 or so, IIRC. The aircraft is considered the Soviet equivalent to the American F-16. Entered service with the Soviet AF in 1982, again IIRC. Compared to the F-16 the Fulcrum is bigger (and obviously has 2 engines compared to 1), has no fly-by-wire, and has a nasty tendency to leave a thick plume of smoke behind it, courtesy of a pair of notoriously unreliable RD-33 jet engines. World renowned for its maneuverability, but not much else.
It was designed to be a simple and cheap front line interceptor for the Soviets that could be produced in large numbers, and even operate from unpaved/improvised runways (hence the big wheels, mud flaps, and doors that close the front of the engine intakes when it's on the ground). From the get-go the MiG-29 was designed with a very specific Soviet doctrine in mind, which centered on the use of ground controlled intercept for a succesful engagement. The MiG-29's radar and weapons systems are not very effective in most other kinds of applications (coincidentally, by western standards those systems are considered rather user un-friendly). Coincidentally, almost every time the aircraft was used in combat it was by a country that did not follow the Soviet doctrine, and was trying to get a lot more out of the light interceptor than it could provide. The result: a very poor combat record. This would include losses to USAF F-15Cs (Iraq, Kosovo), a Dutch F-16AM (Kosovo, disputed), and even the Soviet-designed Su-27 (Eritrea, Russian/Ukrainian flown). The Syrians also allegedely lost a number of Fulcrums to Israeli F-15s in two unconfirmed clashes (1989 and 2001).
In its basic versions, the MiG-29 has only a very basic ground attack capability. Perhaps its greatest downfall is its lack of range/flight endurance. The very first ones produced could not even fire its cannon while carrying an external tank (blocked spent caising ejection port).
The one time the MiG-29 did win in combat was in the hands of the cubans against an unarmed Cessna (might have scored some victories in Ethiopia/Eritrea against attack aircraft/helicopters). The Fulcrum has been out of production for about a decade now due to lack of orders and an over-abundance of former Soviet exapmles on the used market. Many upgrades are available from various sources.
One of the Fulcrums most noteable features was its inovative use of high off boresight short range air-to-air missiles in the AA-10 Archer, the missile could be aimed at targets as much as 45 degrees off the aircraft's nose, using the pilot's helmet. Similar developments have since been introduced by Israel, European countries, and only recently the U.S.
The exports of the MiG-29 have been numerous, as it was at the time the most advanced aircraft offered for export by the Soviet Union, and still offers a very cheap way for a country to obtain a 4th generation fighter. The users I'm aware of are:
Cuba
Germany (transferred to Poland)
Poland
Hungary
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Serbia
Romania (no longer active)
Bulgaria
Belarus
Moldova
Ukraine
Syria
Iraq (no longer active)
Iran
Ethiopia
Russia
India
North Korea
Lybia?
Algeria?
Uzbekistan?
Turkmenistan?
Kazakhstan?
I believe Hungary received some 26 Fulcrums in the mid 90's from Russian Air Force used stock as a way for Russia to repay some debt to Hungary. They could have purchased other examples earlier on.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 28885 posts, RR: 67 Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 1755 times:
Quoting LY744 (Reply 2): The one time the MiG-29 did win in combat was in the hands of the cubans against an unarmed Cessna (might have scored some victories in Ethiopia/Eritrea against attack aircraft/helicopters).
Incorrect, I recall that an Iraqi Mig-29 bagged his own wingman while trying to intercept some F-15E's on a strike. He then flew into the desert himself. The F-15's got a good view of what was happening on their IR gear.
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HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1932 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 1727 times:
Quoting L-188 (Reply 3): Incorrect, I recall that an Iraqi Mig-29 bagged his own wingman while trying to intercept some F-15E's on a strike. He then flew into the desert himself. The F-15's got a good view of what was happening on their IR gear.
Interesting L-188, can you provide any more info or a link? I have no doubt as to what you say, I simply would like to read more about it
NoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7366 posts, RR: 16 Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 1714 times:
In general the Migs lack BVR (beyond visual range) capabilities but are superior dogfighters. In one of the articles you can find here: http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/ one pilot says he allowed an F-16 to "win" against his Mig after the same pilot lost nine times in a row.
German Migs have frequently been sparring partners for the USAF and other western air forces including Israel's.
The pilots loved that bird but are at the same time glad to finally fly a modern jet, the Typhoon. Typhoon appears to have similar short range capabilities (the Iris-T missile is more agile than the aforementioned Archer) plus a highly capable radar.
Pilots said the Mig needs to be flown "actively" which means that pilots have to concentrate on both the mission and the flying.
German air force phased the Migs out before the F-4, because they didn't want to rely on Russian made spare parts. Plus the Mig-29 was a fuel-thirsty hangar queen with more than 30 hours of maintenance on each hour flown (Typhoon: 9 - 9.5).
Beautiful things can be built even from stones placed in your way. - Goethe
LY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 8 hours ago) and read 1646 times:
Quoting L-188 (Reply 3): Incorrect, I recall that an Iraqi Mig-29 bagged his own wingman while trying to intercept some F-15E's on a strike. He then flew into the desert himself. The F-15's got a good view of what was happening on their IR gear.
Haha, good call, forgot about that. Happened in Gulf War 1, the -29 was flying with a -23 as his wingman AFAIR, hunting for a large flight (8?) of Strike Eagles flying in a line at low level at night... the Fulcrum pilot pulled some maneuvers above the Eagles trying to pin point their location but ended up coming on the other side of his wingman and shooting an Archer at him. I believe some have blamed a particular mode of the Fulcrum's weapon system for the mishap: basically the pilot flies with the 'trigger' depressed, and the first target to come into the missile's view is fired upon automatically, or something along those lines.
Come to think of it, back in the 80's a Soviet MiG-29 shot down another with its cannon in a practice dog fight, someone forgot the cannon was loaded I guess.
Quoting Iakobos (Reply 6): For your records, Belarussian flown, and the Fulcrums under Ethiopian AF colors were (AFAIR with a single exception) Ukrainian flown.
Hmm, I thought they were Russian... the Flankers themselves came from Russia, reportedely with the customary complement of "advisors".
Iakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3246 posts, RR: 45 Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 1614 times:
Interesting reading LY744, thanks.
I intentionally used AFAIR instead of AFAIK for a purpose (hint).
Sorry for acig, they have got almost everything wrong in their article_189, but I cannot blame them for having to rely solely on "anonymous sources" aka hearsay.
Vzlet From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 803 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1533 times:
Quoting LY744 (Reply 2): The users I'm aware of are:
Czech Republic
The Czechs retired their MiG-29s in 1994, eventually transferring them to Poland.
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
LY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1518 times:
Quoting Vzlet (Reply 9): The Czechs retired their MiG-29s in 1994, eventually transferring them to Poland
I see, do you know if Slovakia is still flying the ones they got when the country split up?
P.S. Another important addition to the list of countries that operate(d) the MiG-29 is... the U.S.! Bought about 20 from Moldova in the late 90's... Probably not flying anymore. Come to think of it, Israel 'borrowed' at least one from an Eastern European country for a while in the 90's as well.
Vzlet From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 803 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1489 times:
Quoting LY744 (Reply 10): do you know if Slovakia is still flying the ones they got when the country split up?
According to Scramble.nl, the former Czechoslovak Fulcrums are in storage, but Slovakia continues to operate a dozen that it received from Russia after the split.
-Mark
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
Vzlet From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 803 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1374 times:
A timely (July 18th) Slovak article gives some more details:
- 12 Fulcrums will be upgraded to extend their services lives to 40 years or 4000 flight hours (up from the original 20/2500)
- starting in August, two aircraft will be used as "prototypes" for the upgrade process, performed in Trencin
- work on an additional four is planned to start in October, and all aircraft should be finished sometime in the first half of 2006
The article also says that Slovakia acquired 10 in the split. (That may mean 10 combat-capable planes, disregarding the two-seaters.) An additional 14 were received from Russia in two lots in 1993 and 1995. Three of the total of 24 have been lost in accidents, all in 2002.
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
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