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All Shuttle Flights To Be Grounded Again  
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

So sad... but it's just now being reported (TV) that all Shuttle flights will again be grounded indefinitely once Discovery returns!  Sad  Sad

Atlantis' September launch as been scratched.


.......more details as they arise. Looking for a link now.

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4214 times:

TV report was MSN.

Fox just provided the first link:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163884,00.html


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4200 times:

It's too bad, I was all pumped up yesterday at work watching the launch.

I think it is time to expedite the shuttle replacement into service.


User currently offlineDragon-wings From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3978 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4196 times:

I just started a thread about this about 30 minutes ago, but for some reason it was deleted.  confused 

Now back to the thread.......NASA said the reason is because they saw pieces of foam coming off the external fuel tank durning launch when the watched viedo tape of yesterdays launch.



Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

It amazes me that the Billions of US dollarsign  spent and they can't get foam to stick to a rocket . . . I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, in fact I am a great supporter of the Space Program.

It's amazing to me they can't get it right!

How many years (if any) does the shuttle fleet have left? What will replace it? When will that happen?

I also find it amazing the level of technology in the shuttle - comparatively speaking (say to Apollo) and still, thy can't get it right? NASA has egg on their face again . . . . rather still I believe.

Some thing has to give. We should have already explored Mars - with a manned mission - but we're too busy rebuilding 30 year old technology that never worked as advertised . . .

Remember, the space plane, one launch a month, up and back just like a plane . . . . .


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

yup, as well as two cracked tiles.

Very sad.


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

This is sad. The same space program that got a man on the moon in a decade can't even launch their shuttles correctly. NASA, IMO, needs a thorough overhaul.


"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4149 times:

The STS-114 thread is too long there already

User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9293 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

the foam material is the only material they have been able to find that can be used to construct an adequate fuel tank. the material must be able to...

1. withstand the forces and the speed of going up into space
2. disintegrate on re-entry after separation from the shuttle vehicle
3. be light enough

my guess is anybody who can come up with a new material...tax break for life.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

It amazes me that the Billions of US $$ spent and they can't get foam to stick to a rocket

Because all the 'egg-heads' what to do is find some new cutting edge, super new design. If you've read 'Yeager' he talks about an early pitch control issue they had with the X-1. Instead of getting the slide rules and college educated pin heads involved, the jacked it up, built a 2x4 trellis underneath it and worked the balance point that way. It took them one day to find the answer, not months and months and thousands of dollars (thousands then, millions now) My point, look at it in simple terms.......



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

the foam material is the only material they have been able to find that can be used to construct an adequate fuel tank. the material must be able to...

The tank isn't made of the foam "stuff," it is merely sprayed on at the end.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineKiwiNanday From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

If the foam is insulation couldn't they layer it?

Inner Metal Shell
Foam Layer
More Foam
Outer Metal Shell


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

I was just talking to my neighbors in a front yard meet. They both said they lost a lot of respect for NASA after hearing the news.

In the deleted thread, I said that NASA is essentially using duct tape and wire to hold these pieces of shit together. And what gets me is they don't have a f*cking clue of what to replace them with. The rocket scientists are not very smart people after all. It's actually embarrassing.

I'm going to print bumper stickers: Scuttle the Shuttle

Mark


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

If the foam is insulation couldn't they layer it?

Inner Metal Shell
Foam Layer
More Foam
Outer Metal Shell


That sounds good, but it would probably weigh too much. It would involve two metal layers, where now there is just one metal layer, plus the light spray on foam insulation.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineKiwiNanday From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4122 times:

Well, lets hope they still get home safely. After all, isn't that what matters?

User currently offlineTheCoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 9):
This belongs in military/space...

No, this deals with the politics of it, not necessarily the aviation aspect of things. I say keep it...





When it comes to the 20 year old technology they use, it's because older is more reliable. We don't need speed per se; we need reliability first.

These brilliant minds should be given more funding. Imagine how they could contribute so much more to the world with more funding.


User currently offlineKiwiNanday From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 17):
That sounds good, but it would probably weigh too much. It would involve two metal layers, where now there is just one metal layer, plus the light spray on foam insulation.

I know it'll be expensive, but what if you replaced the outer layer of metal with some composite, like carbon fiber, or honeycomb?


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9293 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 13):
The tank isn't made of the foam "stuff," it is merely sprayed on at the end.

sorry, should have elaborated.

adequately construct the fuel tank's protective shell.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineTheCoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

Quoting KiwiNanday (Reply 18):
Well, lets hope they still get home safely. After all, isn't that what matters?

They brought 5 extra rolls of duct tape this time, so I think they'll be fine.  Silly

They're spending a lot of time during this mission trying to figure out what exactly went wrong. Keep in mind there are a billion different questions that were brought up by the space shuttle break-up. They can't confirm any hypothesis until they can adequately test it.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

It would involve two metal layers, where now there is just one metal layer, plus the light spray on foam insulation.


Then spray the foam on the inside as a boundery layer.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Quoting KiwiNanday (Reply 15):
If the foam is insulation couldn't they layer it?

I would guess if it was that easy...it would have been done all ready...


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4061 times:

Maybe the soon-to-be-eliminated NWA mechs can take a look at it - they're used to fixing antiques...


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

Who in their right mind would think this crap would stick to a metal tube traveling at several hundred miles per hour? True rocket science.





[Edited 2005-07-28 03:18:05]

User currently offlineTheCoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 24):
If the foam is insulation couldn't they layer it?

I would guess if it was that easy...it would have been done all ready...

Doesn't it actually cost something like $14,500 per lb to put it into orbit? I forget what the price is, but I remember it's ridiculously expensive.

While operating on a shoestring budget, that probably isn't very feasible.


User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Thread starter):
So sad... but it's just now being reported (TV) that all Shuttle flights will again be grounded indefinitely once Discovery returns!

Atlantis' September launch as been scratched.

A lot of uninformed speculation in this thread....

No one at NASA said the shuttle was grounded....

No one has said the September launch has been scratched...

What they said was (I saw the press conference) they aren't ready to fly. Which would have been true regardless.....


25 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I'm not...billions of dollars and NASA makes Korean Air look like QANTAS Kinda ominous for said Discovery shuttle that's still up there....
26 Springbok747 : Hehe..can you send some down here? Seriously, NASA needs a new space craft. The shuttle is too old and full of problems. But..I don't get it...before
27 Post contains images EA CO AS : Ah, so you have a separate thread, eh? That's nice. ...so anyway, back to the shuttle. I honestly don't see this setback as being a major one. Not ye
28 KiwiNanday : They lost even more funding. Stupid american public won't pay for anything...
29 FutureUApilot : ARE YOU SERIOUS??? These men and women have made a vehicle that will travel to the extreme enviormental limits of this universe! Personally, I have a
30 BHMBAGLOCK : Have you ever tried to get this stuff off of anything after it's cured? Did NASA go back to CFC foam or are they still using the special PC foam?
31 Texdravid : First, bring the shuttle back to earth safely. That is the most important thing. Second, just ground the shuttle permanently. Retire the fleet, what's
32 Post contains images NightFlier : Texdravid I agree 100%. The Shuttle is getting old and it is time for something new. I love the shuttle and the space program, matter of fact the firs
33 Post contains images Sonic67 : Call me stupid but didn't they used to paint the foam 10 years ago or so? Wouldn't painting the foam help adhere and keep it from getting saturated wi
34 StealthZ : Sonic67.... A good point, they ditched the paint to save weight, maybe a few hundred pounds of paint could have saved the program. What is killing the
35 SATL382G : This morning CNN is quoting Parsons as saying shuttle is "grounded". I didn't hear him say that but.... If he did say that I think it's premature. The
36 EA CO AS : I wasn't aware there were winners and losers - besides the "Space Race" never ends. Mankind will ALWAYS be expanding the exploration of space.
37 Garnetpalmetto : The last time the external tanks were painted was STS-2 in 1981. After that it was determined that not painting the external tank would save roughly
38 GDB : The thing is, probably every Shuttle flight has had foam shedding, but luck ran out with Columbia. From my limited knowledge, I'd say cover the area w
39 TedTAce : Stupid question alert: Any reason we can't replace the foam with heaters?
40 SATL382G : To what end? A cryogen like liquid hydrogen (-422F) needs insulation to keep the hydrogen from excessive boiloff and protect against liquifying air t
41 Post contains images Garnetpalmetto : Who in their right mind would think that the crap you make beer and soda cans out of that crushes so easily would be fashioned into a metal tube trav
42 Atmx2000 : I think they are still using the PC foam, which should really stand for "policitally correct" foam. Apparently after the switch in 1997 from the chlo
43 FLAIRPORT : Can we agree with one thing here, folks: Discovery had to go up so we could see what problems have been fixed and what we still have to work on. I thi
44 Post contains images Sonic67 : I can't believe that after 2 1/2 years of research NASA didn't come up with an actual solution to the foam problem. Sorry for being SO negative but th
45 Post contains images AirNZ777 : Um it seems here that know one knows here when nasa's shuttles will be retied- It's 2009 and yes im sure - just a off the bat question here but does a
46 Post contains images TedTAce : Ok... cover your eyes and PEEK VERY SLOWLY!! You are about to be witness to why I am NOT a graphics artist!!! This is what I meant by having the insu
47 Post contains links HaveBlue : Nope, retired by 2010. Plenty of links to back that up, this is the first one I found... Page 4 of this: http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/ev...nts/s
48 Post contains images Boeing4ever : An idea, but seems like an expensive retrofit...the bloody tank was supposed to be the relatively simpler part of the shuttle...so much for that. I'v
49 Post contains links and images AsstChiefMark : The EPA is worried about a little extra CFC? They're worried about the wrong thing. Ever since I was a kid I thought about the wildlife around KSC. I
50 Post contains images Thorny : Well, Americans pay for by far the biggest space program in the world. And NASA's budget has been rising every year since 2000 (after heavy cuts thro
51 Thorny : Not many, actually, to judge by the surrounding wetlands which are teeming with wildlife. This week's launch is the first known bird-strike at launch
52 Bhmbaglock : The tank is the external skin. Seems like one stage of one of the Saturn rockets did use internal insulation. I don't remember the details but seems
53 SATL382G : Great Idea! But it's not a retrofit idea, it's an idea for a new tank so out of the running for the near term. They could probably have it ready by 2
54 TedTAce : If only..I just do NOT get why in light of the problems they knew (or should have known they were going to have with external foam why they did it th
55 SATL382G : The rocket scientists at Marshall thought that they had licked the insulation problems with the S-II stage from the Saturn V, and in retrospect for t
56 TedTAce : Which would be throwing gasoline on a fire IMHO.
57 SATL382G : No other way for them to come home... They would have to launch...
58 MD11Engineer : The problem is that there are several big, very expensive, payloads for the ISS sitting currently mothballed on the ground due to the shuttle groundin
59 MissedApproach : They sure are, after 2 ships & 14 people were killed by flaws they either knew about & accepted, or blissfully ignored. I read an article in Air & Sp
60 Cloudy : Good comments all, but we are not looking at the forest but the trees. We need to take a bird's eye view of what the shuttle is doing to NASA. A case
61 Post contains links SATL382G : That which is not appearing in the press..... The solution may be as simple as swapping tanks again Extracted from the STS-114 Press Kit published pri
62 Thorny : The PAL ramp isn't what worries me (NASA already was kicking around ideas to replace it). What worries me more is the two foam-shedding events from t
63 SATL382G : My point is that the press is ignoring facts that it already had in it's hands prior to the launch. Re: the bipod area. I'm beginning to think that s
64 MissedApproach : Ahhh, my impression was that the tank that went up last week had all foam applied using the new process. I stand corrected. I don't agree with simply
65 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Realize this, STS has flown more missions than Mercury, Gemini, and the Apollo programs combined. With more missions, the more chance for loss. I can
66 TedTAce : Rutan's suborbital ventures will likely never suffer a catastrophic failure. These craft have VERY simple physics to deal with.. go up as high as you
67 SATL382G : FYI: Challengers ET did not explode. It suffered an aerodynamic breakup just like, and probably inconjunction with, the orbiter.... BTW just heard th
68 TedTAce : All the more reason the orbiter might have survived if it was on top.
69 SATL382G : OK, care to explain how you arrived at that?
70 FLAIRPORT : And they might as well do Space Station work during the test flight. I belive it was wind shear that effected Challenger as well. Also carelessness o
71 Cloudy : Sooner or later, something like the spaceship one will have a catastrophic accident. It is much less likely than it is with NASA, where you have a co
72 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Nope, aerodynamics are NOT rockets science...hence why I'm studying Aeronautics and not Astronautics. (Aeronautical engineers are the cool engineers
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