Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?  
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8524 times:

I always have lover going to air-shows, see some of the latest planes and admiring them. The last time I was at an air-show, 2 things happened.

1. I noticed that the F-16s and F-15s have tail hooks, even though they aren't military. Then I remembered seeing that long ago, but had never found out why. So... Why?

2. The Thunderbird crash. Never seen anything like it and don't imagine I will again either. Fortunately the pilot made it out just in time.

Anyway, the main reason for the post is to learn about the thought process behind putting tail hooks on military aircraft that wouldn't likely see an aircraft carrier deck. Let alone, don't really have the main gear strengthened for it either.

Thanks.
KhenleyDIA

*Oh, I did do a search, but didn't easily find anything.


Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDaveflys0509 From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 87 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

The F-16 and F-15 have tailhooks in order to catch arrested gear at airfields in emergency situations, such as a brake failure or a hydraulic failure, and come to a complete stop safely without running off the runway. Most of these airfields usually have the gear located in the overrun areas of the runways. Some of the airfields also have a barrier engagement system which is essentially a net that pops up to catch the aircraft at the end of the runway. Hope this answers your question.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8467 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Thread starter):
I noticed that the F-16s and F-15s have tail hooks, even though they aren't military.

What...? Since when has the F-16 and F-15 'NOT' been military..? You've lost me.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8456 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
What...? Since when has the F-16 and F-15 'NOT' been military..? You've lost me.

From the context it appears he meant "Navy" and not "Military". Surely you could have figured that out, no?  Wink


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8455 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
What...? Since when has the F-16 and F-15 'NOT' been military..? You've lost me.

OOPS! I meant apart of the navy.



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8436 times:

Quoting Daveflys0509 (Reply 1):
The F-16 and F-15 have tailhooks in order to catch arrested gear at airfields in emergency situations, such as a brake failure or a hydraulic failure, and come to a complete stop safely without running off the runway. Most of these airfields usually have the gear located in the overrun areas of the runways. Some of the airfields also have a barrier engagement system which is essentially a net that pops up to catch the aircraft at the end of the runway. Hope this answers your question.

It may sound stupid, but I was hoping for something a little more exciting.  Smile Something like, F-16's were designed to lang on carriers in the event that they had to make an emergency landing. Okay, maybe not. But, just thinking of the runways we have and that they can fly out of, it just surprises me that they would bother with the tail hook for that reason. I mean, most runways, if they are going to crash, they are going to crash. If they find out they don't have brakes, then they will likely find out too late... right?

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineAGM114L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8432 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
I mean, most runways, if they are going to crash, they are going to crash. If they find out they don't have brakes, then they will likely find out too late... right?

hence the reason for the tail hook


User currently offlineTnsaf From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8420 times:

It can also be used on aborted take offs to stop going off the end. It is a fairly standard safety feature. The F-104 had a hook too.


700 hours and counting...
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8407 times:

Remember that fighter jets have no reverse thrust, yet they can and do go pretty darn fast when taking off and/or landing and are often laden with external fuel and weapons. This poses quite a challenge when you have an aborted take off, faulty brakes, or landing with an engine out. Or landing with one wing missing like that F-15 in '83 (arrestor hooked got ripped out the fuselage, got stopped by the arrestor net).


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8357 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
Something like, F-16's were designed to lang on carriers in the event that they had to make an emergency landing.

And snap off it's landing gear in a matter of miliseconds  Wink

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8351 times:

The barrier engagements I had in my F-4 days were all the result of hydraulic failure prior to landing. Icy runways were also a potential reason to use the hook. If the crosswind component exceed the dragchute limit (I think it was 35 knots), then the hook may be used if needed.

The memory items for an aborted takeoff were:
THROTTLES - IDLE
CHUTE - DEPLOY
HOOK - DOWN

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8332 times:

Okay, you sold me on their purpose.  Smile Thanks! Now, how often do they get used? Which jets have them?

F-16
F-15
F-18 (non naval versions)

Does the F-22?

I guess I have missed out on so many air-shows that I have even forgotten what all our military flies now. I remember the good old days when you would see F-14s, F-111s, A-4s, A-6s, A-7s, F-4s and much more! Now, if you see them, they are just a piece of history (for the most part).

Anyway, thanks for all the answers!

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineAFHokie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8259 times:

While they don't get used every day, they do get used. Last time I know of it getting used here at Shaw was summer of 2004, but I'm wouldn't be surprised if its been used since.

The F-22 has a tail hook, will have to look to see where I put the photo I took of one at Tyndall.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8199 times:

I think the last time a hook was used in the Netherlands was over a year ago when an Italian F-104 made an emergency landing at Leeuwarden.

Use is rare.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8191 times:

Was there a certain company or country that developed the idea of giving all such jets tail hooks?

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8095 times:

I think someone probably started it for test aircraft when speeds were getting scary in the 1950s and the idea stuck.


I wish I were flying
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3587 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8092 times:

Maybe this is a Nato standard, just like the fire brigade waiting at the runway when airplanes are landing. Its funny, everytime a military plane is landing at CGN, the fire brigade is waiting, as soon as it landed or took off, they are driving to their parking lot again.

User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8089 times:

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 7):
It can also be used on aborted take offs to stop going off the end. It is a fairly standard safety feature. The F-104 had a hook too.

Yeah but remember the F-104 had no proper wings... its stall speed was around M1.2 or something Big grin



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2108 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8065 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
Something like, F-16's were designed to land on carriers in the event that they had to make an emergency landing.

It would be safer for the pilot to eject from that F-16 than attempt his first ever carrier landing in a stricken F-16 with its frail landing gear.

I've seen an emergency landing trap on a runway, but it was a Navy plane. Patricks AFB airshow a few years back, Blue Angel #3's gear had some kind of problem. After the formation dirty loop he left the diamond and circled over the Atlantic while the other 5 finished the show. They then landed, and after all of the were recovered he came in and caught the wire at the beginning of the runway, and was then towed back to show center.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineFtrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8061 times:

I've had to use it once for a landing gear issue. It is one of those things that doesn't cost a thing and its better to be safe than sorry. Here at NAS Oceana, I would say a jet has to take a field arrestment just about everyday if not more.

The Airforce jets that have hooks are like toothpicks compared to Navy ones. They're meant to stop the jet over a longer distance. I know Navy aircraft can trap using the Airforce BAK-XX gear, but I wonder if the Airforce can trap on the Navy's E-28? I would assume yes, but I don't know.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8041 times:

The hook on the F-16 (or any landbased aircraft) is useless to take the stresses of a carrier landing.

The proposed Navalised F-16 never made it past the drawing board and would have had a completely redesigned landing gear and arrestor hook, far stronger (and heavier) than that carried by the Airforce variants.
The performance and range penalties this would have caused, plus the single engine (and the fact that it was an airforce project but that was never officially mentioned of course) were the causes of the cancellation of that idea.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineContact_tower From Norway, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8007 times:

Quote:
I know Navy aircraft can trap using the Airforce BAK-XX gear, but I wonder if the Airforce can trap on the Navy's E-28? I would assume yes, but I don't know.

It can, but it's not designed for repeated use. Actually, I seem to recall that a structual inspection is warranted after any kind of hook engagement in a F-16.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3587 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7977 times:

Slightly off-topic, but I know that all F-4 variants have tail hooks, at least the F-4F Phantoms of Germany have those. Could all F-4s, in theory, land on an aircraft carrier, is their hook strong enough?

User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7960 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 22):
Slightly off-topic, but I know that all F-4 variants have tail hooks, at least the F-4F Phantoms of Germany have those. Could all F-4s, in theory, land on an aircraft carrier, is their hook strong enough?

I seem to recall that all F-4s did have hooks and some versions did fly off carriers. Didn't the Blue Angels (or one of the teams) fly F-4s at one time, or am I completely living in la la land?

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineDuce50boom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7940 times:

Khenley, you're right on all counts. Both the Blues and the T-chickens operated F-4s back in the late 60s/early 70s.

Lala land? Only you (or your shrink) can answer that one though  Smile


25 Usaafb17fan : Was it a few years ago (perhaps 2002?) I actually saw the tailhook used by one of the Blue Angels @ an airshow at NAS Oceana. Pretty exciting to me. U
26 Post contains images DeltaGuy : I was there...pretty neat to see that happen. Where I fly, at NAS Jacksonville, we have to land over/between the E-28 gear in our T-34,172, etc..kind
27 Contact_tower : I guess it's all about weight. No need to fit a navy style hook on a fighter that will most probably never hit the barrier in any case. The F-4 hook i
28 Jwenting : Not sure about F-4 hooks. From what I've seen they all seem carrier capable (read identical) (as are all landing gears (not identical but all heavy du
29 Usnseallt82 : We had an F-15 use the arresting gear here at NPA not too long ago because the runway was too wet. Had he not had the hook, he would have gone off th
30 Usaafb17fan : I probably worded it wrong, but I meant to convey the fact I was surprised @ the use of a tailhook on the runway - not the fact that the 18's had tai
31 Usnseallt82 : The first hooking devices were actually used in conjunction with hooks on the wheel axels on the earlier model Naval aircraft during the 40's-50's. W
32 DeltaGuy : There were something like 13 arresting cables as well. Not to mention an LSO with a true set of paddles! DeltaGuy
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Fake Chinese Parts On US Military Aircraft posted Tue May 22 2012 11:42:09 by chuchoteur
PHX - Military Jets posted Sat Apr 17 2010 14:58:17 by Seabiscuit
Obama's Effect On US Military Aviation posted Tue Feb 10 2009 20:12:10 by Mascmo
GB Tail Code On Static Display F-105D posted Sun Mar 23 2008 15:17:15 by EBJ1248650
Military Jets In The Adirondacks posted Sun Jul 9 2006 00:49:11 by Newark777
Military Jets Over MAN posted Sat Jun 11 2005 21:21:28 by TIMC
Why Do Military Jets Make Visits To Pass. Airports posted Sun Apr 11 2004 04:56:42 by TriJetFan1
Strange Looking Military Jets posted Tue Nov 18 2003 16:17:46 by Lyzzard
Air Conditioning In Military Jets? posted Fri Feb 28 2003 20:14:36 by Twalives
Did You Ever Miss Out On Something Cool In The Military? posted Tue Dec 20 2011 12:00:15 by 747400sp

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format