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Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft  
User currently offlineCO737800 From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 545 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Canada is putting out bids for 16 new transport planes, in the C130J size. Does anyone know what types they will look. The only 2 that I know of is the new A400 and C130J

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

An-70!  Wink


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6331 times:

Yeah, disappointing that they are dealing with Herc replacement ahead of the Fixed Wing SAR program (which would free up Herc assets). Its probably a moot point if the Gov't is punted sometime in the next few weeks/months.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6304 times:

I actually read about this in a defense magazine this week. The C-130's Canada flies are all between 18 and 40 years of age and are having major maintence issues. The advantage the C130J is that it can be delivered sooner, while the A400M would require a little more of a wait. Also it talked about how Boeing is suggesting the C-17 to replace some of the airplanes. Personally I would love to see them get at least 4 or 5 C17's to help keep that line open.

User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 3):

According to an article in today's National Post they just retired our most worn Herc, '315 (with over 45,000 hours):

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pedro Aragão


19 of the newest Herc's will remain in the fleet with the 16 replacements.
As for the A400, considering the protracted development programs of most military aircraft these days (ATF/F-22, JSF, EF-2000, Gripen, etc) I don't think I would want to depend on a program that doesn't even have a flying prototype yet. Of course, as Italy has show with the Tornado & F-16, there is always the option of leasing until you can get what you want.
Rest assured, the C-17 is still very much on DND's wishlist, but it's probably priority number 5 right now (Herc replacement, heavy lift helicopters, Buffalo/SAR replacement, & Joint Support Ship).



[Edited 2005-11-23 23:51:43]


Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineCO737800 From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6128 times:

The Minister of Defense was on the CKNW last week and said big transport planes is not even on the table. He went on to say "why buy them when you can rent them, if a time comes and you can not rent big transports then we will have to look at it". It was from the Bill Good show www.cknw.com sometime last week

User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6105 times:

Never said they'd get it, just that they want it  Wink

The Canadian military has a time-honoured tradition of becoming infatuated with equipment the government can't afford or is unwilling to buy. The Avro Arrow, a new plane with new engines, a new fire control computer & an untried missile system (Sparrow). The Navy's nuclear sub program ate their budget for years before it finally died. The Joint Support Ship will probably suffer the same fate.

But to return to our favourite subject, didn't the USAF just retire their C-141B's? They probably have what would be considered "low mileage" in Canada.


Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12175 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6066 times:

Quoting CO737800 (Reply 5):
why buy them when you can rent them, if a time comes and you can not rent big transports then we will have to look at it".

The problem with that type of logic is, by the time you need them, it is to late to get them.

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 6):
But to return to our favourite subject, didn't the USAF just retire their C-141B's? They probably have what would be considered "low mileage" in Canada.

I believe most of the C-141Bs have already been scrapped. How 'bout a couple of good "low milage" C-5As? Only flown on Sundays, to church, by little old ANG crews. LOL


User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
How 'bout a couple of good "low milage" C-5As? Only flown on Sundays, to church, by little old ANG crews.

Hah! We have some of them come up here (YTR), usually during the summer. They do touch & goes & say they come here because there's no traffic. Woohoo, the home of Canada's strategic airlift has "no" traffic. I think they're from a New York unit.



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5885 times:

Speaking with some of the pilots at YTR, they said that the C-17 was basically out of the running because they could not drop freight out the back during flight.

The C-130's need to be replaced badly!!!! These planes are flown hard, and 45,000hrs. for a frame is unbelievable. They land on dirt runways, with gravel flying everywhere, yet they hold their own.

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3666 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5872 times:
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Quoting Cruiser (Reply 9):
Speaking with some of the pilots at YTR, they said that the C-17 was basically out of the running because they could not drop freight out the back during flight.

Where did they get that idea? The C-17 can certainly do airdrops, both high and low level drops. If anything, it's because of the price. Here's a picture of the C-17 doing an airdrop:



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
believe most of the C-141Bs have already been scrapped. How 'bout a couple of good "low milage" C-5As?

A lease of 4 or 6 of those C-5's by Canada would probably be the cheapest and most expedient option for expanding Canada's airlift capablity.

However a C-5 isn't a replacement for the C-130 and the only thing that can replace a C-130 is another 130.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 days ago) and read 5611 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
A lease of 4 or 6 of those C-5's by Canada would probably be the cheapest and most expedient option for expanding Canada's airlift capablity.

Yeah right. Do you honestly think we can afford that kind of maintenance nightmare on our budget? Leasing civilian An-124s is infinitely cheaper.

There is nothing the RCAF would actually dare to do with its own C-5 that a civilian -124 couldn't do.


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Quoting LY744 (Reply 12):
Leasing civilian An-124s is infinitely cheaper.

Maybe, but less efficent.

Your military would not have the aircraft available on a ready basis, and would have to rely on previous charters booked for the Antonov.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Maybe, but less efficent.

Your military would not have the aircraft available on a ready basis, and would have to rely on previous charters booked for the Antonov.

Nato decided to lease some An 124 instead of buying C-17 because it is cheaper. They made an agreement that the plane is available any time they need it. Since Canada is a Nato member they can use these pool of aircraft so they don´t have the need for C5 Galaxies.
I think they will go with the C130J but I hope that they will order the A400M.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
They made an agreement that the plane is available any time they need it. Since Canada is a Nato member they can use these pool of aircraft so they don´t have the need for C5 Galaxies.

I am just flashing back a few years ago when Canada was bring it's armor back from the Balkans. They hired a ship through a broker to move all those tanks (1/10 of all the armor in the canadian forces). Anyway the broker allegedly didn't pay the ships crew so they stayed out at sea and refused to bring the ship into port in Canada. In the end the Canadian Navy had to send a couple destroyers after the ship and land a boarding party on her to get their tanks back.

I could see see how a similar situation could occur with airlift, if a military force doesn't own it's own airlift capablity.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (9 years 23 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

Bottom line: even in our wildest dreams Canada would still not get any C-5's. Did I mention the maintenance nightmare?

P.S. As things stand right now, the biggest piece of armor in the Canadian Forces inventory will soon be the LAVs. Unless you count the M109s.

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12175 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 hour ago) and read 5393 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
I think they will go with the C130J but I hope that they will order the A400M.

The C-130J would be faster/easier/cheaper to buy. But, Canada often thinks of itself as part of the EU, instead of being located in North America. So, even giving a choice, they will buy the A-400M. Even if they have to wait for production slots behind Germany, UK, France, Spain, and Italy.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5385 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
The C-130J would be faster/easier/cheaper to buy. But, Canada often thinks of itself as part of the EU, instead of being located in North America. So, even giving a choice, they will buy the A-400M. Even if they have to wait for production slots behind Germany, UK, France, Spain, and Italy.

Regarding its defence policy Canada mostly buys its equipment from the USofA.
Especially the airforce has a long history of buying either homemade or US made products.
I don´t see the Canadian Air Force buying the A400M because it is an European product. If they go for the A400M then because of its size. It is bigger then the C130J and offers a greater flexibility. But therefore the C130J has the advantage -as you already said-of being cheaper and available in a shorter time.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
I don´t see the Canadian Air Force buying the A400M because it is an European product.

Irrelevant. The biggest strike against the A400 is it's timeline. The Air Force would prefer a larger aircraft, but the availability of the Herc fleet has suffered in the last two years. They could always lease something until the A400 is ready, but I don't think they will.
By the way, much of the Army's fleet is of European origin (Leopard tank, Steyr-based heavy truck, Iveco-based light truck, Iltis jeep & Mercedes G-Wagon), plus Fabrique Nationale light & medium machine guns & Aerospatiale anti-tank missiles.

Quoting LY744 (Reply 16):
the biggest piece of armor in the Canadian Forces inventory will soon be the LAVs.

Don't remind me. I feel like I'm going to be sick everytime I think about it. yuck 



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 19):
Don't remind me. I feel like I'm going to be sick everytime I think about it.

Wnat to fix that?

Don't vote liberal.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
But, Canada often thinks of itself as part of the EU, instead of being located in North America

Yup. You know in the 1950's they had a "Buy British" policy. Which is why they turned down American aircraft such as the Avenger in favor of Seafires.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
Germany, UK, France, Spain, and Italy.

And South Africa too  wink 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8031 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5321 times:

I think the Canadian Armed Forces will get the C-130J for an obvious reason: they could get their planes brand new within 18 months. Meanwhile, who knows when will Airbus start A400M deliveries....

User currently offlineBAe146 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 161 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

I think a RCAF C-17 would very good! I painted one about a month ago for FS9

http://www.joepouliot.todapoint.com/images/c17rcaf.JPG

[Edited 2005-12-01 14:14:28]

User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Don't vote liberal.

Haven't yet. It wouldn't surprise me if we got stuck with them again though.

Quoting BAe146 (Reply 23):

Neato!

Here's another alternative I found on the SPAR website: "Herc 2020", a refit for E & H model Hercs at about half the cost of new. Meant to add 15-20 years of service. The program includes modification of the center & outer wing sections.
http://www.spar.ca



Can you hear me now?
25 Post contains images Socal : Wow where can I get that repaint at BAe146? nice repaint. And Canada should buy C-17A's and C-130J's.
26 L-188 : There you go, get Canadair to refit a bunch of those out in the desert with ramp tails
27 Post contains links and images BAe146 : You might like my Blue Angels C-17 also Here's my site
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