Garnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 55 Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3481 times:
Next thing you know they'll change the name from Raptor back to Lightning II (something I wouldn't mind seeing happen)
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
Pyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3535 posts, RR: 28 Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3464 times:
I'm shocked! Such an efficient fighter-bomber!
I don't want to offend anyone but I just realized that attempting to make the Raptor an F/A-22 would be similar to Hitler ordering the Luftwaffe to use the Me-262 as a ground attack aircraft (which happened during WW2).
P.S. - before I get flamed, I am NOT comparing the USAF top brass to Hitler...
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3442 times:
I think the AG role for the F-22 was always meant as a ruse to deflect political pressure to develop the aircraft into a multirole system, never intended as a serious attempt
Garnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 55 Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3378 times:
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 4): I think the AG role for the F-22 was always meant as a ruse to deflect political pressure to develop the aircraft into a multirole system, never intended as a serious attempt
I'll agree with this. It seemed the USAF was overly concerned that Congress wouldn't be as willing to invest in a pure air superiority fighter as they would be to invest in a multirole fighter what with the question of "Whose air force is honestly enough of a threat that we need a pure fighter?" Not that I hope to see war with India ever occur, but maybe Cope India provided enough of a wake-up call to Congress to show that air superiority fighters are still needed.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3350 times:
I doubt it will, especially seeing the reduction to now under 200 aircraft for the F-22 order.
That's down by 90% over the original estimates of needed airframes, and those were meant 90% for continental air defense...
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4385 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3348 times:
Actually the first thing that came to my mind was the FB-22. Maybe this is the first step towards that aircraft as there have been rumors of it being purchased as a B-52 replacement. That way Congress can see exactly what role the aircraft are being purchased for and not be afraid of the Air Force spending money on something they didn't appropriate for.
24 F-22A (Air to Air)
12 F-22B (Air to Ground)
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
Garnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3322 times:
As someone who's slightly anal retentive about aircraft designations, I hope that designation never comes to fruition. Goodness knows they already pissed on the Tri-Service System enough with KC-767s, F-35s, FB-111s, and F/A-18s. BF-22 would work, or AF-22, but not FB-22.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
NorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2383 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3314 times:
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 7): I doubt it will, especially seeing the reduction to now under 200 aircraft for the F-22 order.
Under 200?!?!? how many F-15s do we have? Our whole military doctrine is based around air superiority, how do we attain that without an air superiority fighter?
Congress is balking at the price tag of the F22, but Lockheed/Boeing won't sell them at a loss, the development costs are fixed, if they would order more then the price per unit would come down.
Bushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3229 times:
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 3): I don't want to offend anyone but I just realized that attempting to make the Raptor an F/A-22 would be similar to Hitler ordering the Luftwaffe to use the Me-262 as a ground attack aircraft (which happened during WW2).
I think your %100 right, its a political decision and not a smart one. I had it explained to me by my ex fighter pilot uncle in terms of using the flat head of a hatchet to pound nails instead of cutting wood. Use the right tool for the job.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3147 times:
Quoting NorCal (Reply 10): Under 200?!?!? how many F-15s do we have? Our whole military doctrine is based around air superiority, how do we attain that without an air superiority fighter?
Yes, under 200. The current plan calls for just 189 F-22s to be delivered to the USAF. These will be designated for continental air defense only (at least under the latest plans I've read about), so to NORAD assigned units.
Whether the F-15 will soldier on for another 20+ years to make up the shortfall or this will be the end of air superiority outside US territorial airspace for the USAF I don't know.
I'd not be surprised if there's another "joint" program in which the USAF would supply ground attack capacity under a USN fighter umbrella just like the misguided retiring of the EF-111A which was supposedly no longer needed because the USN could just supply E-6Bs on demand (never mind that the EF-111 could escort the strike force while the E-6 can only provide barrier jamming because of its lower speed).
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4385 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3083 times:
The F-15Cs that are kept will be upgraded to "Golden Eagle" status. If the current order number stands, 1 squadron of F-22A Raptors will be available to each of the AEF wings.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
Wickster From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2937 times:
What Will a Golden Eagle upgrade look like, Like the Test Aircraft F15 at Edwards or better? The F15 is a Great Looking Plane, will its upgrade look and perform to SU30MK levels.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2667 times:
I'd also like to know how many F-15C/D's are going to be kept from the current inventory, in terms of numbers.
I would also like to think that the AF will keep many of our existing F-15E's to implement a ground attack capability.
Otherwise, reducing the F-22's to such low numbers seems to be shafting the AF, even considering that the F-35 is supposed to come on line to replace the F-16. (And the F-35 versus F-16 debate is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.)
Checksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 994 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2330 times:
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 12): Yes, under 200. The current plan calls for just 189 F-22s to be delivered to the USAF. These will be designated for continental air defense only (at least under the latest plans I've read about), so to NORAD assigned units.
I have never seen a more ignorant statement in my life. The raptor is designated for any use including deployments anywhere/anytime. Furthermore, NORAD defense units typically use only F-15A MSIP's and F-16/ADF variants...just using those as examples as that is what NEADS is comprised of. Stop putting out info you have no idea about...
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