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What's Cool In Russia?  
User currently offlineDuke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

What do y'all think of the Russian military industry? They seem to be going strong.
How would the Mig-29, the Su Fitter and that new Sukhoi canard-winged thing (what's
the name?) compare with the quality of Western aircraft?

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMiG31 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

In Russia, we have a number of great a/c that would definetely outperform a lot of western a/c (of course that would mainly depend on the pilot).
The Sukhoi you are talking about is S-37 or Su-47 Berkut. It is a fifth generation fighter with swept-forward wings, which allows to improve the manouvreability by 1/3. In fact this plane can stand still in the air with nose up. I've seen it myself.
The most manouverbale fighter plane on the planet is also Russian. It is a Su-37 with thrust-vectoring nozzles.
Of course the avionics and all these computers are not like on all these western a/c where everything is so computerized - you can probably write e-mails from the plane...  Smile but it is still good. Apart from the Su-27 family and Mig-29 we have interceptors such as MiG-31 which has a speed of up to Mach 3.4. Four MiG-31's can cover an area of up to 400km - that way you do not need AWACS.  Smile


Actaually there is a lot ...
www.aeronautics.ru


All the best!

MiG


User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Russian has the greatest ,from mechanical piont of view,fighters but with poor avionics and even poorer defense budget .

User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

If you are interested about new rus a/c there's some links for you:
http://www.milparade.com/1998/27/108.htm
http://www.milparade.com/1997/21/14.html
http://www.milparade.ru/market/free/01_01.htm
http://www.aeronautics.ru
http://208.50.44.157/port/browse.asp?catid=255&linkid=1607
Kind regards
Slobodan
P.S.Please post your opinion about my proposal
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/3687/


User currently offlineMiG31 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2709 times:

Fireblade, we are not talking about budget, but the a/c and really avionics is not that bad. You are just used to screens in western a/c.

All the best!


User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Well i have little question about you:
Why did India bought sextant[french]avionics for their su-30?
And why are all modern rus a/c s equiped with french or israilian avionics [at least in the air shows] ?
Why don't they show russian one?
MIG31 Russian avionics isn't that bed but it's not elite one and if you buy one elite fighter you must have an elite avionics else macedonian keys will happened.
Our Hinds killed 4 our soldiers because our goverment didn't want to spend few more money on israilian aor french avionics.
Kind regards
Slobodan


User currently offlineMiG31 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Hey, I'm not saying it the best! :P
We DO have good avionics but due to the economic conitions and a lot of many other factors it would turn out to be way too expesive (even more expensive then french and other) to equip all fighters with Russian MODERN avionics. Then again, the one which is used now is pretty good. Take for example the radar on Mig-31 can. which can track up to 11 and lock on 2 or more (depends on models - mine is only2) targets at the same time.  Smile
I have no clue why India bought french avionics. Probably for the name and reputation, which is better. Like, if you believe in the superiority of the french equipment why did not you buy the french planes but the Russian ones?

All the best!





User currently offline777kicksass From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2000, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Dials are apparently easier to read in the high G world of high manouvreabilty planes!

User currently offlineDuke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

Thank you for the sites. The debate about the avionics seems to be a
typical case of either type having its pros and cons, and you having to
weigh your options.


User currently offlineWasilenko From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

The reason why the whole planet does not like russian avionics is because they are designed for russian pilots and measure everything using the "metric system".

User currently offlineYKA From Netherlands, joined Sep 2001, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

You could be right Wasilenko, its a shame that the metric system, which is used over most of the world is not preffered when it comes to avionics. However I can see the reason for it, since feet are are smaller they are also more percise, and you gotta admit 39000' sounds better than 12000m.

I still wonder how a MIG-29 or SU-27 would do against an F-15, too bad the two types never engagued in at least play combat.


User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2687 times:

MIg31
I know a lot about mig-31 zaslon radar also india bought russian made radars i think zhuck but not sure about it, i was talking about avionics [cockpit,communications and stuffs like that]don't mix those things.
And i think that you missunderstood me , i don't like french planes [maybe rafale isn't so bad] but russian especially flankers family.
Wasilenko
Maybe thre's something about but real reason is that russian doesn't have fast CPUs[processors] and communication stuffs .Don't take it like an offense but russian make no fast CPUs and this is a computer world now.France is more advanced at that field also they could buy ibms' RISKs .makes 7 time faster than pentium with same clock measure all the servers are make with it
Yours
Slobodan


User currently offlineFlyhigh@tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2687 times:

What's cool in Russia?

I think all the planes are cool there(flankers, Superflankers, MiG29s,31s)  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

What's not so cool in Russia?

1. The manufacturing companies running on a tight budjet line (unlike their western counterparts).

2. As such the economic state of Russia(and hence its direct effect on maintaining the existing fleet of planes or develpoing new ones)

I guess that we just have to hand it out to the russians for turning out such wonderful planes despite all the odds they face  Big thumbs up

Talk about manouverabilty and immediately it is the sukhois that come to mind. Well the avionics are not as good as their western counterparts but then you will have to understand that just building such planes in itself is a very big achievement.

Do the Russians have advanced simulators etc for training before the actual plane takes to the air?

Cheers,
Thomas.


User currently offlineSuperhornet From United States of America, joined May 2004, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Well su-33 is the coolest thing that happened to russia
:D



Watch the ball
User currently offlineMiG31 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

YKA, Su-27 had a mock fight with F-15 and turned out winner. It happened at Langley or something... airbase in US - I read about it.


All the best!


User currently offlineMiG-29-Sniper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

to fireblade! -> your quote:Well i have little question about you:
Why did India bought sextant[french]avionics for their su-30?
And why are all modern rus a/c s equiped with french or israilian avionics [at least in the air shows] ?
Why don't they show russian one?
MIG31 Russian avionics isn't that bed but it's not elite one and if you buy one elite fighter you must have an elite avionics else macedonian keys will happened.
Our Hinds killed 4 our soldiers because our goverment didn't want to spend few more money on israilian aor french avionics
-> hey smarty, why do americans buy french/russian/... BREO? because of clobalization. if you think rusaf cant afford new inneraircraft technology by brain structure, you are very wrong! only the creens and "outshowing" parts of BREO is shown, but inside, such as RLS is all russian such as FAR - new age lockators, russian! look, im sorry kid, but we still put our engines on our aircrafts, we still put our gears on it, and we still put our BREO on, if you consider screens and buttons a highly edvanced technology that rus cant afford, once again you're wrong. it all is done for outlook, and besides Su-30mki - m - means modernized; k - comerce; and i - means india; there is also Su-30mkk - k standing for china. so it's always up to requester hwich BREO to have on the aircraft - out job is to meet their requests. tschuss


User currently offlineMiG-29-Sniper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

to MiG-31; I.T. - 4 migs can cover area of 900km2 not one 400. and that as well goes to fireblade - mig-31 is the world wide agreed best fighter intersepter today, well guess who made the inner thech for it, we did!

User currently offlineMiG-29-Sniper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

to YKA!!! ->I still wonder how a MIG-29 or SU-27 would do against an F-15, too bad the two types never engagued in at least play combat

-> oh man, you're sooo wrong here!!! su-27 and f-15 did ingage in a sim-fight!!! well, i hope you can guess who won that one!!! (answer is Su-27) and the reason why MiG-29 wouldnt ingage with F-15 is because it is a different fighter weight. MiG-29 light fighter, F-15 heavy fighter - so as Su-27. by the way, Su-27 excided F-15 by maneurobility by ~15 percent, by avounics maintainens, 30 percent. and Su's avionics were hell way better then than f-15's !!!


User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

mig-31 is good only for one thing speed.
And avionics is not only displays but CPUs also and Mr witheld sniper tell a name of one russian CPU.


User currently offlineSpectre From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

I believe that German Mig 29's mix it up on a regular basis on the North Sea ACMI range and have not come off too well, even against the BAe Hawk.
I would love to see the results of SU 27 / F-15 fight, but I still think the advantage has more to do with tactics and pilots than with aircraft types.
What do you guys think..is it the aircraft, tactics or pilots or a mixture of some or all??

Regards
Dave


User currently offlineYKA From Netherlands, joined Sep 2001, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

I don't know if everybody realises this but the actual speed of the F-15 processor is about the same as of the old 486 33/66mhz processors used in early computers.

So considering the Mig-29/Su-27 first flew about 4-5 years after the F-15A I would assume that the capability of avionics would be around the same, speed wise anyway. What migh seperate the two is the offencive potential of Russian missles, which may not be as percise as Sidewinders or Sparrows.

Air frame wise, by the looks of it, both the 27/29 appear to be just as aerodynamicly advanced as the F-15....though again I belive the soviet engines could never equal fuel efficency of their Western counterparts.


User currently offlineMiG-29-Sniper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

FIREBLADE - > mig-31 is good only for one thing speed.
And avionics is not only displays but CPUs also and Mr witheld sniper tell a name of one russian CPU

well, there is the complete bullshit!

MiG-35 - day-night fighter-intersepter, capable of a fightlead against all know aircrafts, including low-flying and undetectable by others targets such as winged-rockets and helichopters. double-sitted aircraft with normal wing body, is made of 50% of stainless steal, 16% of titanium, 33% is aluminium, 1% - others. desighned to be used as a team leader among mig-23/25/29; su-15/27. RLS-"Zaslon" with so called FAR extreme power. it's radars catch flying objects in range of 200km - high/low situated. it's RLS allows to maintain the aim ingage of 10 at one time and fire upon 4 with single shot. low vizibility provided by a heat-pelenger that allows to seek-attack aims while being invizible to enemy radars. navigation equpment includes radionavigating systems "Tropic"/"Loran" - accuracy of aim detects at 2000km!!! and "Marshrut"/"Omega" - accuracy of coordinates of flight plan as far as 2000-10000km. in-air-fuel reload. in 1992 there were 200 mashines on russia's PRO, 4 were sold to china, some experienced modification, so now called MiG-31M - has more advanced RLS, caries more air to air missales including most recent russian invention R-77 - long distance missale with infro-red aiming head.
speeds: m-2.3 - cruising speed; m-2.82 (3000km/h) - top speed; 1500km/h low-fly speed. practical ceiling is 20600m above the sea level. 4 MiGs control the area of 900km using inner communication network, staying invizible for enemies radars and PRO.

my best regards. next time you wanna say something about MiG's only advantage is speed, read this, and find a plane with similar characteristics on usaf or any other including rusaf, then we'll talk.


User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2644 times:

Mr.Witheld Sniper
What the hell are you talking for ?
Who ever mentioned mig-35 that thing doesnot exist.
Mig-35 was mapo migs' competitor for LFI and the one you're talking for is probably mig-1.42 OR 1.44 .
So my posts were about mig-31 foxhound .Great speed ,great radar eveything else is BS.
YKA
Eagles has ibms' RISK system so that practically means speed of processor Times 7
Spectre
There was a dogfight between su-27 and f-15 in a play fuight [i'll post the link when i find it] and su-27 easily won it.


User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2643 times:

Another thing compare the cocpits of US and russian helicopters
http://www.russian.ee/star/vertigo/cockpits/us.html
http://www.russian.ee/star/vertigo/cockpits/index.html
Don't you see a big differnce between them.For me rissians' cocpits lucks like a sf movie filmed in 1923 .
And Ka-52 cocpit is with french avionics.
Slobodan  Yeah sure


User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

YKA:

The AA-11 Archer is widely considered to be better than the AIM-9 Sidewinder, especially when its used in combination with HMS.
The Sparrow is an old design (originates in the 1950's), that suffered many difficulties throughout its career, and its duties are now being widely performed by the more advanced and succesful AIM-120 AMRAAM.
The AA-10 is the best compareable Russian missile.

The MiG-29 and Su-27's aerodynamic design is very advanced, the Su-27 is very manouverable, it may very well be more agile than the F-16.

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
25 MiG-29-Sniper : to FIREBLADE - sorry dude, i ment to say MiG-31, and all info afterwards is all about it. there is no MiG-35, you're right, my mistake.
26 Post contains links and images Fireblade : Sniper Nice numbers but post something to make me believe it they are true .I'm very interested about 4 a/c cover 800km area. and about MIg-35 check t
27 Post contains links Fireblade : Another I-2000 jpg http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/lfi002.jpg i just couldn't handle it Slobodan
28 MiG-29-Sniper : sure man sure - go to www.airwar.ru!!! later man got to run!!
29 Fireblade : Yes there some cool pics i like up view of s-37[else i don't like it estetically] and pics of su-37
30 Post contains links and images Fireblade : And in future please post your webs as links it's easy.Check read how to include links ,posts and smilies link. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/h
31 MiG-29-Sniper : it's got a desent desighn, but im not sure about avoinics. keep in your head that longrange radars is good, but what's the reason of having such advan
32 Fireblade : Please be specific
33 MiG-29-Sniper : umm, refer to your topic, we'll discuss it there, ok?! Dee
34 Post contains images MiG-29-Sniper : So, is that it? is all we have is a MiG-29, Su-27, and a MiG-31??? u guys forget about great plains that still have no anologies in the west! which on
35 MiG31 : Hello Gentlemen, As a matter of fact Mig-29 Snipe is right. That carrier incident did not get a lot of public attention maybe because this time the US
36 LY744 : The USAF???!!! The USAF has no a/c carriers. That's probably why this "attack" didn't get much publicity (that or because it was limited to the websit
37 MiG-29-Sniper : AND?
38 Post contains links TransSwede : This carrier incident story is most certainly real: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/russia001207.html Here's a quoted section: The Russ
39 Post contains images Superflanker : Only su-27 ,mig-29 & mig-31.Ha And what about su-25/39 it could beat a-10 whenever it want .
40 Post contains images MiG-29-Sniper : Su-24 dived up from the front left side of the carrier, scared the shit out of the crew, made 2 runs around it and the pilots took pictures that clear
41 MiG31 : Well, with the exception of some unecesary profanity you are correct. Those photos clearly show panic on the deck of the carrier... :P All the best!
42 Post contains images Superflanker : The us fleet must be very sleepy when a plane like su-24 did that. Imagine if they were strike flankers.
43 MiG31 : I guess that would be their normal condition :P All the best!
44 MiG-29-Sniper : you realy underastimate Su-24. like i said - there are no annologies of this plains BREO!!! it could have destroyed that ship from far longer disstanc
45 LY744 : OK, let me get this straight, the MiG-31 flew over the "spy plane" (What kind of a/c, dude? U-2? ???) while flying in the opposite direction, and 2 se
46 MiG-29-Sniper : yeah right, in 2 seconds... aga! while those guys were still jumping in their sits - that's when he made the turn and ended up on their tail. Dee
47 MiG31 : I think that my comrade Dee exahagerated a little bit just to make it sound really nice but as a matter of fact this really happened because the MiG h
48 Post contains images MiG31 : No one replies any more to this topic?
49 Post contains images AndrijaG4 : Well, MiG31, I've got a question. Just to make you feel better Actually I was wondering exactly how many MiG-29A/S and UB is Russia upgrading to MiG-2
50 Post contains links and images Dragon-wings : This looks pretty cool Click for large versionPhoto © Faerberg Leonid
51 Post contains images AndrijaG4 : Sure does
52 Post contains links and images LY744 : The I2000 is almost certainly will not be made. Too bad, it looked kinda nice. You might find those links useful (LFI): New Russian 5th Generation Fig
53 Post contains images AndrijaG4 : Thanks....and yes I know about Venik Who doesn't?
54 CX_744_CX : I think all their planes resemble some US made aircraft. Their newest Mig fighter has stolen F-22 thrust vectoring technology which enables better man
55 Post contains images FlyHigh@Tom : What do you mean"Stolen F-22 TVC"? I always thought the Russians were better off in technology as far as TVC was concerned...there is no need for them
56 LY744 : And Lockheed-Martin's JSF contender resembles the Yak-141, which first flew over 10 years ago. It was reported that LM paid the Yakovlev design bureau
57 MiG31 : In 1970's a Soviet pilot deserted to Japan on a MiG-25, which was later aquired by USA...
58 LY744 : MiG-31, I really, really, really hope you aren't going to say that the F-15 is based on the MiG-25. BTW, wasn't the a/c returned to the USSR after a f
59 Fireblade : Matt Saturn Lyulka design bureau presented TVC in the 1995 on su-37 where US tvc projects were in dipers. That was a three dimensional +15/-15 degreee
60 Post contains images MiG-29-Sniper : ...yeah man, that's complete BS that we've stolen something from ya. we had engines with TVC on Su-27 already in mid 80s. surprised? - i was too when
61 Fireblade : exually i make mistake f-22 is moves only +20/-20 vertically only two dimensions
62 Warlord : Actually Russians first made TVC in 1981 on al-31
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