Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Video Of A Blackhawk Rollover On A Carrier  
User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2777 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Wow this has gotta suck! And also note the guy how he pushes the Blackhawk back over, are they really that lite?

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...eos/2006-HSL_Roll_Over__Short_.wmv


KPDX  Smile


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClearedDirect From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9769 times:

Looks like there is some considerable wind blowing as well -
I can only imagine the paperwork that this incident will create.


User currently offlineTIMC From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9702 times:

I think that video must be faked somehow.

If that was really filmed on an aircraft carrier, how did the cameraman keep his hand so steady with all the swell?

It really looks a bit dodgy to me, can't quite put my finger on why..


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9689 times:

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
Wow this has gotta suck! And also note the guy how he pushes the Blackhawk back over, are they really that lite?

I gues the blackhawk was standing on just one wheel, he was just fightin the wind to move the CG back to a place were it would rest on 2 wings, not carriying the entire blackhawk's weight on his arms. Anyway, what he did was stupid, he could have been killed, and maybe it wouldnt have tipped over if he hadn't tried to move it back into place, notice how it had more momentum after it was pushed.


User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2777 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9661 times:

Quoting TIMC (Reply 2):
If that was really filmed on an aircraft carrier, how did the cameraman keep his hand so steady with all the swell?

It looks like its a cam mounted on the carrier..


KPDX  Smile



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineVisityyj From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9654 times:

Quoting TIMC (Reply 2):
how did the cameraman keep his hand so steady with all the swell?

There is no camerman, it's a CCTV camera fixed to the ship so it rolls with the ship giving a 'steady' image.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9616 times:

A few points of note...

1.. It is NOT a Blackhawk.., but the Navy version called the Seahawk.
2.. It is NOT on a Carrier, but looks like an Arlegh Burke Class DDG Destroyer.

If you noticed the engine plug streams blowing in the wind, they were in pretty heavy winds - seas. I was shocked they were even getting ready to launch. Another point to note... they were not using the arresting system. This is a cable system that allows the helicopter to land on teh deck in rolling seas. The helicopter drops a hooh that locks into the track on the deck and pulls the helicopter down, locking it to the deck.

[Edited 2006-01-11 23:44:10]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineImperialAero From Canada, joined May 2005, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9606 times:

Are you guys seriously suggesting that the chap managed to make any impact on the motion of the 7 tonne Blackhawk as it rolled on the deck, due to the (obvious) gale force winds that were causing it to roll...

If you are Luisca, you're deluding yourself...

The helicopter rocks back because the wind drops, not because the guy makes a feeble attempt to push it over.



ICURFC - Who Is Sylvia?
User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2777 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9494 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
1.. It is NOT a Blackhawk.., but the Navy version called the Seahawk.

Oh well excuse me!  Yeah sure Its just another variant, and plus thats beside the question..

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
2.. It is NOT on a Carrier, but looks like an Arlegh Burke Class DDG Destroyer.

That wasnt the question, read again, it says "Are Sea(  Yeah sure)hawks that lite?"


KPDX  Smile



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9465 times:

The ground crew had nothing to do with returning the helicopter to its level stance. The wind subsided and the copter fell back on its own weight. Can't imagine the hell that crew went through when they had to report to thier superiors!


Cha brro
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9392 times:

I'd say, rolling seas and high winds contributed to this.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9253 times:

Blackhawk/Seahawk....... Military
Aircraft carrier..... Military


WRONG FORUM


User currently offlineBeau222 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8449 times:

Looks like all the covers are on the copter why would they not have it strapped down. Guess hind sight is 20/20

User currently offlineLeothedog From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7454 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 11):
Blackhawk/Seahawk....... Military
Aircraft carrier..... Military


WRONG FORUM

*Handing N754PR a chill pill and a glass of water*



I've got things to see and people to do.
User currently offlineDevil505x From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7035 times:

Quoting TIMC (Reply 2):
I think that video must be faked somehow.

If that was really filmed on an aircraft carrier, how did the cameraman keep his hand so steady with all the swell?

I feel the same way. In addition how could a helicopter weighing in at a couple of tons tip over while there are several crew members who do not appear at all to be affected by the ships movement. Could the heli be some kind of mockup for possibly training the ship's personnel in helicopter operations.


User currently offlineAztec01 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 147 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Doubt very highly it is a 'mockup'.

Couple of observations:

The wind is very definitely blowing the clothing of the crew as well as the 'remove before flight' pins on the Hawk. The crew provide a significantly less profile to the wind so they didn't get blown overboard.

After it tips over the wind still pushes it, ever so slightly, toward the railing.

A second crewman, apparently aware of the foolishness, urges/pulls/convinces the first crewman back after he tried to right the Hawk

At one point lights start flashing on and off on the tailplane. No, it's not a mockup.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6809 times:

I talked with a fellow co-worker today who is also a UH-60 Crew Chief in the Guard. I was told that gusts at 15kts require the blades be secured... gusts at 30kts require the helicopter to be chained down.... and if it's light on fuel.. look out.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineJohnM From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6783 times:

No such wind restrictions apply to a plan vanilla UH-60. The rotor system may start and/or stop at wind speed up to 45 knots. So if the wind is 40 kts, go ahead and start your Hawk. The aircraft is a stable machine on the ground in windy conditions, as long as the tail wheel is locked and brakes set. I can't comment about shipboard conditions however. I've seen anti flap assemblies (on the main rotor head) broken from high winds, and the only other isssue was a broken tail lock pin from winds. The aircraft stayed on it's wheels just fine.

User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6723 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
A few points of note...

1.. It is NOT a Blackhawk.., but the Navy version called the Seahawk.
2.. It is NOT on a Carrier, but looks like an Arlegh Burke Class DDG Destroyer

Both correct.
Major difference is the Seahawk has the tailwheel near the back of the cabin vs. at the end of the tail. I'm not sure, but this may slightly raise the CofG while the helo is on it's wheels compared to the Blackhawk.
Also, carriers have a clear deck & sail directly into the wind during launch & recovery. Destroyers sail with the wind about 30 degrees to either side, since the superstructure would create unsafe & unpredictable turbulence if they had the wind directly on the bow.
If you look at the video, you can see two tracks on the deck where the hauldown system that EMBQA mentioned would travel while the helo was moved onto the deck from the hangar. I have no idea why it wasn't used, unless it was broken.
Could they have been doing some sort of maintenance checks that required an engine start?



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

They are carrying out a 'Straightening' which entails the moving of the helo with the Beartrap (RAST) system and the Tail Guide Winches (TGW). it could be an OHP class frigate (FFH7) or an Arliegh Burke [Flt 2](DDG51)

Look at the Video at 200% and you can see the TGWs on either side of the helo (from the deck edge hooked on to the tail) and the fact the helo is traversing aft leads me to believe they were straightening the helo outside the deck motion limits (3 deg pitch and 10 deg roll). The winds may have had some impact but deck motion is more likely without seeing the horizon it is hard to tell.
Some links about how it works
http://www.readyayeready.com/timeline/1960s/beartrap/
http://www.indaltech.com/products/rast/rast.htm

WrenchBender

[Edited 2006-01-13 03:05:44]


Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6650 times:

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 19):
it could be an OHP class frigate (FFH7) or an Arliegh Burke [Flt 2](DDG51)

It's not an FFG-7 Perry Class Frigate as it has two arresting tracks. Perry Class Frigates only have one. My money is on a (Flight II) Arliegh Burke Class Destroyer. 'Flight II' is just the second generation class of the Destroyer were they added the Helo hangar.

My first 'real job' out of high school was working for the Maritime Engineering and Design company that designed the DDG-51 class.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6643 times:

Quoting Visityyj (Reply 5):
There is no camerman, it's a CCTV camera fixed to the ship so it rolls with the ship giving a 'steady' image.

I'll look for it but last year I put up a video taken from the hoist winch of a USCG Jayhawk looking straight down at a hoist in the basket. It looks like the helicopter is rising up and down dramaticly, but in fact the helicopter is hovering at a constant height, and what you are seeing is the tops and troughs of the waves. Same thing is happening here.

Quoting ImperialAero (Reply 7):
The helicopter rocks back because the wind drops, not because the guy makes a feeble attempt to push it over.

Impulse vs. training....instinct won in this case.

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 9):
The wind subsided and the copter fell back on its own weight

Wasn't the wind, it was the rolling of the ship in the sea.

Quoting Devil505x (Reply 14):
crew members who do not appear at all to be affected by the ships movement. Could

Just another day on the sea, the more time you spend out there the less it affects you.

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 18):
Major difference is the Seahawk has the tailwheel near the back of the cabin vs. at the end of the tail. I'm not sure, but this may slightly raise the CofG while the helo is on it's wheels compared to the Blackhawk.

I would say yes, I was in a Blackhawk unit in the Army, and seen a lot of USCG Jayhawks up close (Same tailwheel) and the naval versions definately sit with their arse up in the air.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1053 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6626 times:

Looks like the video came off the HOSS flight deck camera, it's mounted to the superstructure, not a handheld cam corder.

The flight deck is a FFG-7 frigate flight deck.

There are supposed to be pitch and roll limitations of what can be done at certain sea states. At certain trip points, the aircraft should have been secured for "heavy weather."

It looks like it was only held in place by the beartrap and it wasn't griped down properly. To me, it looks like the maintenance night crew got complacent, and just thought it was another night for maintenance, pushed the helicopter out the back for maintenance.

The ship driver will probably get some blame in all this as well even though he has no control over sea state, he'll get the blame for allowing the aircraft to go unsecured on deck.



Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

Quoting Woodreau (Reply 22):
The flight deck is a FFG-7 frigate flight deck.

I stand corrected. After a second, better look it is indeed a Perry Class Frigate flight deck. I forgot they had two separate arresting tracks. It would be interesting to find out what really happened though....



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6605 times:

Quoting Woodreau (Reply 22):
The ship driver will probably get some blame in all this as well even though he has no control over sea state, he'll get the blame for allowing the aircraft to go unsecured on deck.

Along with the LSO and the Deck Director. Someone on the bridge or in the Ops room knew what was happening because thats were the CCTV is controlled from and the camera followed the A/C as it rolled over.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
25 Jush : I concur. For me the whole thing looks like a model or a test research or something else. Doesn't look real. Looks even indoor. Regds jush
26 Checksixx : Jush...I hope your kidding...there are people inside the helicopter that you can see on the video and if it was testing..no one would be inside it or
27 SlamClick : Am I really the first person to notice the cable pulling it over from beyond the left side frameline? It looks like a training film being made. How do
28 L-188 : Yeah I think you were. But I think that might be a tie down rope for the rotor blade.
29 Checksixx : No-one here must know how to read very well. THE CAMERA IS A FIXED CAMERA. End of story. And yes, there are cables attached to the helicopter midway b
30 WrenchBender : Doesn't anyone actually read what has already been posted. I may be a dumb Canadian zoomie, but I have spent 7 years working aboard Canadian Navy fri
31 MissedApproach : After watching the clip a few more times, I noticed the collar for the hauldown system is under the helicopter as it rolls over, & it appears to be tr
32 EMBQA : Please show me where I said it was restricted from flying in those wind conditions...??? Only that on the ramp it must be secured under those conditi
33 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : Ok, I know this has been stated already, but this is NOT a Black Hawk. And note, it's two words, not one. This is a Sea Hawk. Sorry, but I never like
34 JohnM : EMBQA, You might have misunderstood my reply. First rotor tiedowns are not required @ 15 kts on the UH-60. They are only required when wind conditions
35 WrenchBender : Take a closer look, approx 4 feet aft of the forward 'T' Line you can see the tail guide winch pulley on the ships port side. Once the helo comes to
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Video Of A Blackhawk Rollover On A Carrier
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Video Of Ares I And V On Moon Mission.... posted Sun Jul 2 2006 21:52:36 by Boeing Nut
Have Any Of You Watched Flight Ops On A Carrier posted Thu Aug 11 2005 18:25:47 by 747400sp
Photos And Video Of First SA Gripen posted Thu Sep 21 2006 01:13:58 by DEVILFISH
Video Of P-38 Off Of San Diego posted Wed Aug 16 2006 01:45:49 by RichPhitzwell
Video Of A400M's TP400-D6 Engine posted Thu Jul 27 2006 20:20:04 by RAPCON
RA5 Vigliante Drop Live Nuke On Carrier Deck? posted Thu Jun 29 2006 08:29:04 by Bjornstrom
Nice Demo Video Of Aussi F111, Long Fuel Dumps posted Wed Jun 28 2006 14:46:20 by Keesje
Any Good Video Of Shuttle Landing? posted Tue Aug 23 2005 00:08:34 by Phxplanes
C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck posted Thu Feb 10 2005 03:37:12 by Sonic67
The Battle Of The X Planes On PBS Tonight. posted Wed Aug 25 2004 02:07:15 by Iowaman

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format