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V-22 To Deploy Overseas: Go ThunderChickens!  
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3774 times:

Of course when I was at -263 I thought we were the "War Eagles" but Thunder Chickens is catchy! I sure hope the Osprey proves it's critics (such as myself) wrong!

Semper Fi

Feb. 27, 2006, 6:55PM
Marines to Deploy Troubled Osprey Aircraft


By ESTES THOMPSON Associated Press Writer
© 2006 The Associated Press

RALEIGH, N.C. — The Marine Corps plans to send the troubled Osprey aircraft into combat zones within a year and is activating a squadron of the tilt-rotor planes this week.

"Obviously, due to operational concerns we don't want to tell exactly when they will deploy," said spokesman Master Sgt. Phil Mehringer at Marine Corps Air Station New River, where the squadron will be based. "But it's certainly going to happen in the near future. Definitely, within a year."

The Osprey, which takes off and lands like a helicopter and flies like an airplane, had a troubled start.

Four Marines died in a 2000 crash in North Carolina that was caused by a ruptured titanium hydraulic line. Nineteen others were killed in a crash that year in Arizona that investigators blamed on pilot error.

The Pentagon approved full production of the Osprey in a $19 billion program last year, and the Marines have been showing them off. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld flew aboard one last week.

Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263, which will carry the Vietnam-era "Thunder Chickens" nickname of the helicopter unit it is replacing, is to be formally activated Friday. There are about 250 people in the squadron and nine aircraft, Mehringer said.

The Ospreys will replace the aging, Vietnam-era fleet of CH-46E twin-rotor helicopters. The newer aircraft can carry more cargo and fly five times farther at speeds around 300 mph.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBigFish From United States of America, joined May 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Just pay attention to this quote:

Quote:
The Osprey, which takes off and lands like a helicopter and flies like an airplane, had a troubled start.

It's "start" is over, and all of the issues that it has had have been quelled. Sure it's been a moneypit, but when the unmatched effects of versatility, capacity, speed, and flexibility are seen, it'll be a proven workhorse for the Marines and the Air Force. Yes, the Air Force is buying them as well. Every aircraft has it's hiccups, it was just unusual, and unfortunate, that the decision was made to put 24 Marines on an aircraft which still had performance woes.

Everyone who flies the Osprey LOVES it. They say the flexibility is incredible, it's performance jaw dropping, and it's capabilites untapped. The crew guys love it because they are incredible machines.

If you've never seen one in action, they are rediculous. To have an aircraft we thought was going to land on the helo pad request the "break" was in and of itself pretty remarkable. It gave us all a chuckle in the tower. Though they look like a pig, they've won me over.

Now if I could have my camera on me when it rolls into Meridian....
 bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

Quoting BigFish (Reply 1):
To have an aircraft we thought was going to land on the helo pad request the "break" was in and of itself pretty remarkable.

What does this mean?



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineBigFish From United States of America, joined May 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Quote:
What does this mean?

This is the "overhead":

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/USNATC/Overheadmaneuverpic.gif


We thought the aircraft was going to make a straight in approach from the east to the helo pad on our field. We held a couple of aircraft, and taxied some others around to accomodate the helo pad. Instead, he called up 6 miles to the east for the carrier break, or overhead. Which meant that he would overfly the runway, break, enter the downwind leg, and than land on the runway. Make sense?


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16859 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

Quoting BigFish (Reply 1):
when the unmatched effects of versatility, capacity, speed, and flexibility are seen, it'll be a proven workhorse for the Marines and the Air Force. Yes, the Air Force is buying them as well.

Hopefully the Army will order the V-22, it's an incredible aircraft which I feel is going to really prove it's weight in gold operationally. You can insert troops directly into a combat zone in Iraq from a Base in Kuwait, or evacuate wounded troops from a foward operating area to a hospital 200 miles away.

It's perfect for the Marines and their mission, it also fits perfectly into the Army's Modular Combat Brigade teams. Mobility and speed are cornerstones to the Army's Transformation and the V-22 fits perfectly into that plan.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 3581 times:

Quoting BigFish (Reply 1):
Though they look like a pig, they've won me over.

Ironically enough when I first saw an Osprey in the pattern at New River back in 1998 to me it resembled the CH-46 it's replacing - but flying sideways!


User currently offlineEatmybologna From France, joined Apr 2005, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Just wondering. What will a v22 do if the rotor is stuck in horizontal mode? It cant land like a plane nor like a helicopter.


Isn't knowledge more than just the acquisition of information? Shouldn't the acquired information be correct?
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 19 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Can the the Osprey do rolling takeoffs? Such as what the Harrier does in order to get more weight off the ground than it could with a pure vertical takeoff?

User currently offlineBigFish From United States of America, joined May 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

Quote:
Can the the Osprey do rolling takeoffs? Such as what the Harrier does in order to get more weight off the ground than it could with a pure vertical takeoff?

Yes, I've seen them do both, a vertical, and rolling departure. The rolling departure starts with the engines "canted" at a 45 degree angle, and as it gets airborne, the engines rotate forward, and it transitions to aircraft flight. The engines are controlled with a "wheel" much like what is on your mouse on your desktop. They're rolled with the thumb by the pilot in the right seat.

Quote:
What will a v22 do if the rotor is stuck in horizontal mode? It cant land like a plane nor like a helicopter.

It won't do much of anything. They would have to make an approach with the engines horizontal, and try to salvage everything that they can of the blades, and engines, after the crash landing. The software is so robust now that problems and anomolies like that will show up in the start sequence, and they'll cancel the flight before it gets airborne. That's all theory of course, and we all know about theory; It's the only place besides your imagination where everything works. No one has had the dubious distinction of crashing a V22 now that it has made it to the operational test and eval squadrons.


User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting BigFish (Reply 8):
Yes, I've seen them do both, a vertical, and rolling departure. The rolling departure starts with the engines "canted" at a 45 degree angle, and as it gets airborne, the engines rotate forward, and it transitions to aircraft flight. The engines are controlled with a "wheel" much like what is on your mouse on your desktop. They're rolled with the thumb by the pilot in the right seat.

IIRC, the exact angle used varies depending on gross weight, runway length, etc. but is typically an angle closer to helicopter mode than airplane mode.

The porpoising of the nose when converting to airplane mode is pretty cool to see though.

I think it will be a positive thing to have these in Iraq. I don't have any specific statisitics but it seems like the helicopters being shot down over there are getting hit mostly in forward flight and not during take-off/landing. There is certainly some work to be done towards arming the Osprey for these situations but its much higher cruise speeds should make it considerably less vulnerable between points A and B.

The real test for the V-22 would be if we needed to conduct a raid on Iran's nuclear sites. It was after largely started as a program in response to the disastrous refueling debacle in the attempt to rescue our hostages in Tehran.



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

Hi All,
I found a good Navy video showing the V-22. The coolest part was how they folded up the props on the ground:

http://pma275.navair.navy.mil/images/gallery/lb03339.mpg

Are these things armed in anyway?

--Sam


User currently offlineTaromA380 From Romania, joined Sep 2005, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Just a question: what happens in case of one engine failure ? Could that "thing" fly on one engine ?

User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 11):
Just a question: what happens in case of one engine failure ? Could that "thing" fly on one engine ?

Well, yes. I believe they have some sort of cross shaft (forgot the name of it already) that allows power from the remaining engine to drive the failed engine, thus both rotor sets still spin.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 11):
Just a question: what happens in case of one engine failure ? Could that "thing" fly on one engine ?

Yup.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 10):
Are these things armed in anyway?

Nope.

It yet remains to be seen how the Osprey will work once the bullets begin to fly and only time will tell now...


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 10):
Are these things armed in anyway?



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Nope.

I don't know that this statement will apply to the SOCOM version.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 14):
I don't know that this statement will apply to the SOCOM version.

Anything can be done for money - but the USMC had to abort their plans for a turret something akin to that of what was on the RAH-66 Commanche early on because of a lack of funds needed to keep the program alive.

What I again find dissapointing is in how the Marines are rebuilding their geriatric fleet of Skids (Huey and Cobras) when they have already readily admitted that they would now prefer a gunship version of an Osprey to escort their V-22's (which will make the bulk of their entire aviation fleet.)

Why waste the money in the re-treads from Vietnam when you need it's replacement already?


User currently offlineTaromA380 From Romania, joined Sep 2005, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
Well, yes. I believe they have some sort of cross shaft (forgot the name of it already) that allows power from the remaining engine to drive the failed engine, thus both rotor sets still spin.

Thank you for answering. But I was thinking especially about a SAM hit on a rotor, which would destroy the entire engine/blades. On just one engine, the Osprey seems not to be able to compensate the loss, the resulting torque having no issue but crash. Or am I wrong ?


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 16):
Thank you for answering. But I was thinking especially about a SAM hit on a rotor, which would destroy the entire engine/blades. On just one engine, the Osprey seems not to be able to compensate the loss, the resulting torque having no issue but crash. Or am I wrong ?

I too am pretty sure that the Osprey was designed to be able to operate on just one engine although if I remember correctly it was only enough power to enable a forced landing?

As for speculating as to whether or not a SAM hit would do what, there's a lot of variables there.


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16859 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

Why doesn't the Marine Corps replace their Cobras with Apaches and their Hueys with Black/Seahawks?..


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBigFish From United States of America, joined May 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

Quote:
Why doesn't the Marine Corps replace their Cobras with Apaches and their Hueys with Black/Seahawks?..

The Apache:
1. Not compatable with shipboard ops. (Insert a gob of money, and viola! Shipboard capable, but the MC is short on dough currently. They are also consumed with making the Osprey work.)
2. The Cobra is still a capable warfighter. I sure woudn't want to be on the recieving end of its pleasantries.  Smile
3. The Z model just came out, and it is just as capable, if not moreso, than the Apache at its mission. The Cobra is designed to support the Marines inshore, and operating from a littoral environment. Nothing does it beeter than the Cobra.

To answer the question about the Huey:
From the Bell website:
http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co...en/aircraft/military/bellUH-1Y.cfm

The aircraft of choice for the U.S. Marine Corps, the UH-1Y was selected over the competing aircraft because of its ability to meet all the Corps’ stringent requirements, and its 70% life cycle cost saving against the competition. The Marines will be procuring 100 UH-1Ys through an ingenious upgrade program to their existing UH-1N fleet. This innovative modernization approach will save the USMC over $1 billion.

That and refer to the part about being consumed with making the Osprey work.


User currently offlineJrw261 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
Why doesn't the Marine Corps replace their Cobras with Apaches and their Hueys with Black/Seahawks?..

80% UH-1Y to AH-1Z Commonality, perfect for ship board operations.

Apache isn't marinized.

I could go on...


User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 11):
Just a question: what happens in case of one engine failure ? Could that "thing" fly on one engine ?

The synchronization shaft(actually several with joints) can transfer power from one pylon to the other for a limited period of time. Obviously the turbine output will also be increased likely resulting in greatly shortened life of the engine.

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 16):
Thank you for answering. But I was thinking especially about a SAM hit on a rotor, which would destroy the entire engine/blades. On just one engine, the Osprey seems not to be able to compensate the loss, the resulting torque having no issue but crash. Or am I wrong ?

SAM hit on a rotor/pylon would likely be fatal at lower altitudes with low airspeeds. Assuming that a single rotor is toasted while in forward flight(most likely), there is a good chance of a survivable lconventional landing although the airframe would likely be damaged irreparably.

btw, the rotors are pretty tough. IIRC, they were tested on a whirlstand in the mid 80s with 20mm with good results.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 10):
Are these things armed in anyway?

Nope.

This still shocks me a bit. I worked on a feasibility study for this in 1986 and it seemed like a slam dunk that this would happen. Of course they were also talking about Harpoons and Sidewinders at this time although not as seriously.



Where are all of my respected members going?
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