Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Should The A4-D Skyraider Be In Todays Inventory?  
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9083 times:

I remember people saying how tough this bird was. I was wondering what you in the know would think if this aircraft would be affective in, say, insurgent type mission air support. I realize that helicopters would do the job, but maybe the prop would have some type of advantage?

Big version: Width: 288 Height: 192 File size: 7kb


20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9077 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
I remember people saying how tough this bird was. I was wondering what you in the know would think if this aircraft would be affective in, say, insurgent type mission air support. I realize that helicopters would do the job, but maybe the prop would have some type of advantage?

Not as long as we have the A-10.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

It might be useful for COIN operations in low intensity conflict zones, but indeed the A-10 does an excellent job at that.

Not sure whether it would be able to operate more cheaply or from shorter strips than the A-10, which might both be an advantage in some areas.

There was also a rather nifty idea in the 1980s to restart production of the P-51, fitted with 2 external 20mm cannon, rocket pods, bombs, and a turboprop engine.
Didn't go anywhere, plan was to sell it to low budget airforces as a ground attack aircraft but they went helicopter instead.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 8996 times:

The A-1 was very effective in NAM as an escort bird for the Jolly Green Giant.

It worked well enough the Air Force was taking ones the Navy had sent to the desert and refurbing them for their use-including AWAC versions.

If it worked there, it could work anywhere.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13252 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 8931 times:

Didn't USAF A-7D's replace their A-1's, in particular in the 'Sandy' role escorting and if need be, supressing for helicopter CSAR in Vietnam?
The Corsair did have that Spey engine (licence built in the US), plus presumably decent fuel capacity, allowing loiter, as well as a heavy weapons load.
And that was replaced by A-10, so we are two generations into A-1 replacements.

In the more traditional Navy attack role (including nuclear delivery), wasn't the A-1 replaced by A-6A?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 8902 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 4):
Didn't USAF A-7D's replace their A-1's, in particular in the 'Sandy' role escorting and if need be, supressing for helicopter CSAR in Vietnam?

I don't know I can agree with that. I would say since the A-7 is clearly a strike type. I would say that the USAF replaced them with the A-37 and the OV-10 to some extent.

The problem I have with calling the A-7 and the A-10 A-1 replacements is that you have to figure that a SAR helo cruises at what? about 130-140 Kts.

A lot slower then an A-10 or a A-7.

The A-1 can cruise at that slow speed and work down closer to the target, about on par with a Helo.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12179 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 8828 times:

The USAF A-1D/E was normally the Sandy escorts for Jolly Greens, and occasional strike mission aircraft.

The USAF A-7D/K was normally a strike mission aircraft that occasionally escorted the Jolly Greens.

So, both aircraft had limited capabilities in both missions, and both carried a heavy load of weapons. The A-1 normally carried rockets and guns, the A-7 normally carried bombs and cannons.

Before the end of the Vietnam War, the USAF retired the few A-1Ds they had and stayed with the later version A-1E.

After the Vietnam War, the A-7D, and later A-7K replaced the A-1Es in all missions.

Later, the USAF had the compitition between the A-9A and A-10A for a limited strike aircraft, but speicalized in the CAS mission. Both were excellent aircraft in those missions, but the A-10A was scene as being better able to become a Combat SAR escort aircraft. The A-10 was also considered slightly more survivable.

Thus, the Warthog was born. It replaced the A-7D/K (but the A-7K stayed around until the mid 1990s with some ANG units), the remaining A-1Es, the A-37C, the O-2A, and the OV-10A/B.

The rest is history.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 8824 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Jwenting (Reply 2):
There was also a rather nifty idea in the 1980s to restart production of the P-51, fitted with 2 external 20mm cannon, rocket pods, bombs, and a turboprop engine.

Ah, the Piper PA-48 Enforcer....








2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8742 times:

I was reading an article recently about the maintenance problems with the US helicopter fleet in Iraq. The OH-58 was suffering some problems and is showing its age I guess. Curious was the statement from the Army in the article mentioned the OH-58 in its usual scout role but also talked about forward operation control. Also mentioned was stress on the Kiowa due to armed recon and attack operations. It seems to me that this describes the mission of a fixed winger like OV-10/OV-1 ?

Maybe Boeing Nut is right , a slow fly heavily armed prop driven aircraft may be what the Army needs??

I vote for the Mohawk !!



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12179 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 8637 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
Maybe Boeing Nut is right , a slow fly heavily armed prop driven aircraft may be what the Army needs??

Well, they could just do that with an armed version of the Cessna C-340T.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

helis in Iraq are showing increased wear due to the sand.
Nothing worse than that, just not considered when calculating the initial airframe life expectancy (which was calculated for use in the European theater mostly).



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

The problem with the helo's is that they just can't lift as much as an A1.

Remember the Skyraider just missed WWII and was developed based on 1st hand knowledge of combat enviroments.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineF4wso From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8474 times:

The radial engine is a detriment to the Skyraider continuing service. It would have to have a powerplant that burns kerosene to be viable.

Quoting GDB (Reply 4):
Didn't USAF A-7D's replace their A-1's, in particular in the 'Sandy' role escorting and if need be, supressing for helicopter CSAR in Vietnam?

The A-7D on display at the National Museum of the US Air Force was flown by then Major Arnie Clark on a Sandy mission where he earned the Air Force Cross
From the museum's website...
"The A-7D on display was flown on Nov. 18, 1972, by Major Colin A. Clarke on a nine-hour rescue support mission in Southeast Asia for which he was awarded the Air Force Cross, the Air Force's second highest award for valor in combat. It was delivered to the USAF Museum on January 31, 1992."

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA



Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8470 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting F4wso (Reply 13):
It would have to have a powerplant that burns kerosene to be viable.

So close.....and yet, so far:

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/3173L.jpg








2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8463 times:

Quoting F4wso (Reply 13):
The radial engine is a detriment to the Skyraider continuing service. It would have to have a powerplant that burns kerosene to be viable.

The sad part about that statement is that the radial engine is one of the reases why it had such a good loiter time over it's target, A radial just sips fuel compared to any turbine at low altitude.

24H it wasn't the engine that killed the turboprop A1. It was the Gearbox and that stupid counter-rotating propeller. I think a P-51 with a PT6 in the nose would do very well. A lot better then that T-53 power Piper Enforcer.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8449 times:

Quoting AislepathLight (Reply 10):

Perfect aircraft for the mission I was thinking of , something like a intermidiate gun ship / FAC aircraft.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 11):
Nothing worse than that, just not considered when calculating the initial airframe life expectancy (which was calculated for use in the European theater mostly).

Just curious how it could not have been considerd? especially with the Apache ,blackhawk,Lynx etc.

Sand is always going to be a problem with Air breathers , other than filtration what else could be done.



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13252 posts, RR: 77
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8392 times:

These suggestions about a fixed wing element, how about that very upgraded version of the Embarer trainer? Already procured I think by Columbia for combat (and FARC are no slouches at firing on military aircraft), even comes with a .50 in each wing-WW2 style!

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 17):
These suggestions about a fixed wing element, how about that very upgraded version of the Embarer trainer? Already procured I think by Columbia for combat (and FARC are no slouches at firing on military aircraft), even comes with a .50 in each wing-WW2 style!

An Embraer FAC vs. a Skyraider is sort of like comparing a 3/4 ton pickup truck and a mini-cooper.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13252 posts, RR: 77
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8327 times:

Yes, but a Mini Cooper might just be much harder to hit, even have a lower IR signiture!

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8324 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 19):
, but a Mini Cooper might just be much harder to hit

If a Skyradier takes a hit, it might not even feel it.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Should The A4-D Skyraider Be In Todays Inventory?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Should The USAF Build A B-2B? posted Sun Jul 2 2006 10:33:17 by KC135TopBoom
When Will The PC-12s Be Delivered To U.S.A.F.? posted Thu Jan 26 2006 17:55:10 by CX747
Should The US Buy Some A-400Ms? posted Wed Dec 28 2005 18:16:17 by KC135TopBoom
Should The Space Shuttle Program End Soon? posted Wed Aug 10 2005 05:33:41 by LTBEWR
Should The Usaf Consider Buying AM-400s? posted Tue Mar 15 2005 09:23:34 by KC135TopBoom
When Will The Nimitz Arrive "In Theater" posted Tue Mar 25 2003 05:59:49 by CX747
"B-52's Forever" Will Be In Service Till 2040 posted Tue Apr 30 2002 16:42:45 by Galaxy5
The Gripen That Crashed In Sweden? posted Wed Nov 14 2001 15:43:44 by SUDDEN
Which Countries Still Fly The A4 Skyhawk? posted Mon Oct 22 2001 08:53:23 by Freedomair737
The Super Hornet Is In A Film Already! posted Wed Oct 17 2001 01:01:06 by FlyBoeing

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format