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IAF 126 Plane Order  
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

Whats the News on the Indian Air Force [IAF] 126 plane order.
When will the Type be decided.
regds
MEL


Think of the brighter side!
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMigFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

Probably the BAE Hawk.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

Not the Trainer version.Thats the HAWK
Was talking of the Combat version.[F-16,F-18,Mig29,Su30,Mirage 2000].
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

The only updates I've seen are several articles in the Indian press commenting on Boeing offering the Super Hornet. Nothing other than that....


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineTu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1255 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

HAWK21M, how come the IAF is not looking at the MiG-29OVT?


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently onlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4702 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 4):
HAWK21M, how come the IAF is not looking at the MiG-29OVT?

Well they are certainly looking at the MiG-29M, which has many parts in common with the -29K they've ordered. And why shouldn't they consider the OVT ? You would believe they want the best aircraft on the market.

BTW, Tu204, welcome to my RU list !



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 5):
You would believe they want the best aircraft on the market

And also an Uninterrupted/Non Sactions Supply of Spares.Thats what gives the Russians & French an Edge.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently onlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4702 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
And also an Uninterrupted/Non Sactions Supply of Spares.Thats what gives the Russians & French an Edge.
regds
MEL

That's true, and IMO, one thing doesn't contradict the other one in this case !



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
That's true, and IMO, one thing doesn't contradict the other one in this case !

If the US can give the same assurance.Maybe.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 5):
You would believe they want the best aircraft on the market.

What is wrong with the CIS birds?



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
What is wrong with the CIS birds

Not sure if its true.But I heard that the Maintenance Manuals are not well documentated in English like the US ones.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4501 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):

And also an Uninterrupted/Non Sactions Supply of Spares.Thats what gives the Russians & French an Edge.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):

If the US can give the same assurance.Maybe.

From what I gather, the F-16, although of the right size and capabilities (cost?) is out of the running because it is also operated by Pakistan, with two of the embargoed examples recently delivered. It appears a manufacturer cannot be a supplier to both countries at the same time. The Super Hornet, Typhoon and Rafale were added to the list although these are a bit heavier and in a different class as the Sukhois. From another thread, the Gripen seems to have lost favor - with the strongest contenders being the MiG and Mirage. As for sanctions, I don't know.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 11):
It appears a manufacturer cannot be a supplier to both countries at the same time

Whats the reasoning.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Whats the reasoning.

It could be seen as playing both sides on a field, and would make for a strenuous trust relationship between client and supplier. BTW, I had read pretty much the same conclusion re LM in another thread, although I can't remember which.

Namaste,
DF

[Edited 2006-06-09 20:49:07]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4379 times:

When is the Desicion Date.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
When is the Desicion Date.

Sorry, I think you're in a better position than me to know that. Maybe others who regularly contribute to the Indian Aviation threads will have the information.

DF



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4345 times:

There was an Interview with the Chief of the IAF yesterday....His reply was Very Soon.  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineThumper From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 5):
Well they are certainly looking at the MiG-29M, which has many parts in common with the -29K they've ordered. And why shouldn't they consider the OVT ? You would believe they want the best aircraft on the market.

They may want the best aircraft out there but I doubt that the US is going to sell them any F-22's. I would think there best bet would be the Mig 's. Certainly not the Super Hornet.


User currently onlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4702 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
What is wrong with the CIS birds?

Nothing ! I meant that the MiG-29 is one of the best fighters on the market, not the opposite !

Quoting Thumper (Reply 17):
They may want the best aircraft out there but I doubt that the US is going to sell them any F-22's.

I have my doubts about the F-22's capabilities. This focusing on stealth capabilities does not bring big advantages.

For the air superiority role, they have the Su-30MKI.

I meant they want the best aircraft in the light fighter market. In this category, IMO, the MiG-29OVT is the most agile aircraft, and the newer versions have much improved ground attack capabilities.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4312 times:

Quoting Thumper (Reply 17):
I doubt that the US is going to sell them any F-22's

Wasn't The F-22 considered too.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
There was an Interview with the Chief of the IAF yesterday....His reply was Very Soon. Smile

That's good news. Slightly off-topic, the June 2006 AFM also mentions a number of "new-build" Jaguars in cooperation with local industry. Any details?



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
the June 2006 AFM also mentions a number of "new-build" Jaguars in cooperation with local industry. Any details?

Not heard of any Jaguars lately.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

Anyone know the prospects of the Typhoon / Rafale? If these are MiG21 replacements, what roles are assigned to the MiG's and what's the breakdown (eg 40% air defence / 60% ground attack)?

User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 18):
I have my doubts about the F-22's capabilities. This focusing on stealth capabilities does not bring big advantages.

The F-22's "focus" is not on stealth. The F-22 project charter was to take everything good from the F-15 and improve where possible and add new tech to it. More stealth was added as it is to all new US fighter aircraft designs, as was supercruise, and thrust vectoring. If anything the latter two of the three was the focus, because stealth is a default requirement.

As for it not bringing big advantages, that is not correct at all.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
Wasn't The F-22 considered too.

No decision has been made to export the F-22 to anybody, not even the UK or Israel. The F-35 is tricky enough to agree upon.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4060 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 23):
No decision has been made to export the F-22 to anybody, not even the UK or Israel.

Wasn't it offered during GWB visit to New Delhi this Year.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Lumberton : Not as far as I know. I would have certainly remembered reading about this if it was published. I think this is still correct. My bet for the first f
26 Post contains links and images HAWK21M : View Large View MediumPhoto © Mark Carlisle I think the US Cong nod on the Indo-US deal might influence this.If it goes through. regds MEL
27 DeltaDC9 : More likely it was the F-35 or new F-15's. The new F-15's are superior to any F-15 we have right now in the US. I cant imagine the red tape involved
28 Lumberton : I may be misconstruing your post but if you mean a sale of the F-22, sorry, it won't happen soon, if ever. I suspect you know the politics better tha
29 HAWK21M : When is the US Cong deciding on the Ind-US Nuclear Deal..I think its this Tuesday. Is that correct. regds MEL
30 Aseem : They've decided in favour of it.
31 HAWK21M : 1st Hurdle Tackled. regds MEL
32 DeltaDC9 : Singapore, I would have never thought of that one. I was thinking maybe Israel, Taiwan or South Korea though. This is partly based on who is getting
33 Lumberton : Personally, I don't think Israel is an "automatic" recipient anymore (note I didn't say "sale"). Taiwan, IMO, never happen. Of course they could affo
34 DeltaDC9 : The unit costs go down as production numbers go up, but yes it is a put off. Personally, I wonder if this is is like the F-117, B1, B2, etc., somethi
35 Post contains links DEVILFISH : In AirRyan's new thread, the ISDAF procurement chief mentioned that they would be happy to equip with 24 F-22s, but the US's refusal to sell and the
36 STT757 : The only Country the US would/ is considering selling the F-22 to is Japan, Japan is the only Country who could use the F-22 to buffer against China'
37 HAWK21M : I think its high time Dimplomacy does not link Everything to Pakistan being India Centric. regds MEL
38 Post contains links DEVILFISH : Update: U.S. House of Representatives Approves U.S.-India Nuclear Deal! It was only last Wednesday, July 26 that the measure was passed by a vote of
39 RAPCON : When an IAF Chief of Staff says that we can all call his bluff and say that he's full of s**t. The Indian military procurement process is slower than
40 Post contains links and images DEVILFISH : Relative to Replies 7 and 28 in the Pakistan Arms Package ( Details Of Latest F-16 Offer To Pakistan... (by AirRyan Jul 7 2006 in Military Aviation &
41 Lumberton : Well, there is Qatar Airlines bring their A350 and 777 deals to closure....
42 HAWK21M : Two Steps to go.The Last one of GWB Signature should not matter so that leave One Step. regds MEL
43 Post contains links RAPCON : India is a soverign country and can do what it wants, and purchase what weapons it likes. But India nees to understand that there are consequences to
44 DEVILFISH : That's certainly the kind of duplicity which could jeopardize this deal. It should be clear that it's not an "agreement at whatever cost." Although d
45 BarfBag : So, umm, why would US actually care to sell us anything when we're apparently neither so competent at procuring anything, nor inclined to toe the US l
46 RAPCON : India and the US are not "allies". Not by any stretch of the immagination. India and the US may have friendly, peaceful relations, but we are not all
47 Greaser : Right now, the US haS an amiable relation with them. Everyone knows when the shit hits the fan, India will not be behind us unless their interests ar
48 BarfBag : Excellent. And I agree that'll never be the case either. Therefore you agree that the US shouldn't go around making demands on how we run our ties wi
49 Greaser : The US, and ANY OTHER country will pressure any gov'ts decisions according to their global and local interests. Fact of life. India does it too.
50 BarfBag : Certainly, but nothing's going to come of it unless self interests coincide. The US has a traumatic history with Iran, and it tends to get extraordin
51 DEVILFISH : Aside from the business, it's in the US' interest that the things it is selling should go to those with a relatively democratic culture with which it
52 BarfBag : And we ought to expect the reverse in that case. In other words, a complete cessation of all arms sales to Pakistan. But that's hardly the case; the
53 HAWK21M : India is an Independant Nation that will take Desicions based on National Interest.It does not Matter what other countries want. regds MEL
54 DEVILFISH : The technology for the arms the US is selling to Pakistan are its own and did not come from India. Pakistan had been very cooperative with the US thu
55 RAPCON : And India is not the only buyer. Right next door, they just love to buy are stuff. I'm sure India will have no problem or objection to that, eh?
56 Post contains images BarfBag : Indian asistance to Iran has no US component either. And Iran is a good friend. It's just the US that's enormously bet out of shape with them since t
57 Greaser : What do you think of their current chap? Surely he needs more than a good shave
58 RAPCON : Well since we're discussing personal appearance, I would also recommend that he consider purchasing some nicer shirts and some ties. Maybe A.Net can
59 DEVILFISH : The two companies' actions were in violation of existing agreement, per the article. You said the following..... Oh, the US does achieve what it want
60 BarfBag : I appreciate the US angst with them. If a nation kidnapped the personnel of their Indian embassy, consistently maintained a hostile position against u
61 HAWK21M : I think the Russians & French have the Edge. regds MEL
62 RAPCON : I sincerely hope so, and I'm looking fwd to the IAF buying from its regular source again. I would not want to have to give license production to the
63 BarfBag : Interesting perspective, and it reflects the lack of familiarity and the level of confidence that engenders, when it comes to with dealing with us. I
64 Lumberton : Is there a Request For Proposals, or similar document, that outlines the terms and conditions of the IAF fighter bid? If so, do they specify licensed
65 DEVILFISH : India's relationship with Iran is a requisite for harmonious, peaceful coexistence and is not equated to a manifestation of deep, widespread anti-US
66 RAPCON : It seems that with your perspective, one can safely reach the conclusion that the Indians are too used to pushing around the broke Russkies,and the m
67 Blrsea : Yes, please do that. And don't worry, the US tax payers will pay for it, as they have been doing for some time now with the $1.5 billion in defence a
68 RAPCON : Hey I'm all for that! India can keep buying planes with engines that just barely get 300hr TBO, tanks that cook their crews for lack of a/c, helos wi
69 BarfBag : RAPCON, do you seriously think you do the US or the American perspective any favours by compulsively belittling any person or entity that does not hol
70 DEVILFISH : Much as being that would help me, I'm still a Filipino immigrant here.
71 RAPCON : Dude we're all immigrants, but when we come here to the US, out of politeness, we leave the childish nationalism back in the "old country". Right Bar
72 DEVILFISH : Also out of politeness, I do not claim to be an American while there are still more than three years before I could file for citizenship, having been
73 Post contains images HAWK21M : That Extra Baggage can cause te US Shivers in a few years if not curtailed regds MEL
74 Oroka : Allies should get top-of-the-line equipment, friends get the good stuff. No way in hell the IAF is getting F-22s, the US is having doubts of offering
75 Blrsea : And IAF is not looking for it either. It is too expensive for India.
76 Post contains images Aseem : and ya F-22s are for poodles who do offer their peaceful army, but don't have transport aircraft to carry their men to site. And also for those who c
77 BarfBag : Nationalism is just a consequence of the presence of nation states. It merely serves as the expression of self interest on the part of those entities
78 HAWK21M : Whats the progress on this order. regds MEL
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