EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9292 posts, RR: 12 Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5813 times:
My guess would be the F-16. But I really don't think there have been a lot of air-air kills since the 80's. US Navy F-14's shot down a few Lybian Mig's in the mid 80's and I don't think there were a lot of air to air kills in Gulf War I.
[Edited 2006-06-11 05:39:25]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
UH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5628 times:
Quoting Thorny (Reply 5): Yeah, and an AH-64 flown by an O-6 took out a bunch of his own guys on the ground, didn't it? The Air Force doesn't have a monopoly on friendly fire.
What's with the 'tude?
No need to get so defensive - I wasn't sh*tting on the USAF's parade. That incident was as much the fault of the UH-60 pilots, as it was the F-15 drivers. Those helicopters failed to properly set their IFF codes and neglected Army SOP. That event was a cascade of failures on both sides and was totally avoidable.
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11435 posts, RR: 81 Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5608 times:
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6): That incident was as much the fault of the UH-60 pilots, as it was the F-15 drivers
The investigation indicated that the AWACS controller misdirected the BVR intercept and he was held responsible, IIRC.
The Israelis have the greatest number of kills in the 1980's with the F-15 leading the pack.
Since the USAF has entered combat in the 90's the F-15 has the most kills. If I recall correctly the only non-F-15 kill was by an F-16 during the Kosovo conflict when a Dutch bird took down a MiG. Reliable observers did say that the Italians had a pair of F-104's on CAP headed for an intercept that was re-routed by a US AWACS who sent F-15's to shoot down a pair of MiGs. The Italian F-104s evidently had the drop on the Serb a/c as they were linked to a Tornado ADV but it was not to be........would have been an appropriate end to the service of that fine airplane.
LY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5603 times:
Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): Since the USAF has entered combat in the 90's the F-15 has the most kills. If I recall correctly the only non-F-15 kill was by an F-16 during the Kosovo conflict when a Dutch bird took down a MiG
USAF F-16s scored kills too, over Iraq shortly after the end of the first Gulf War. The first kills for the AIM-120 AMRAAM I believe. This would have been '92 or '93 and the victims may have included a MiG-25, but I don't remember now. I'm also recalling some (1-2) USAF F-16 kills over the former Yugoslavia in the mid-90's, possibly using an AIM-9 this time, or more AIM-120s.
Lt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5576 times:
Quoting DL021 (Reply 8): The investigation indicated that the AWACS controller misdirected the BVR intercept and he was held responsible, IIRC.
You recall incorrectly. The only one on the E-3 charged was the SD Capt Jim Wang, he was eventually cleared-though I think on a technicality overall-for his weapons team supervision.
The Shots the F-15s took were not BVR. Both F-15s flew by the Helos and VID them as Hinds first, then shot in visual range.
The investigation that followed hit the army hard for not giving its air plan to the CAOC in Turkey daily. It hit the Fighters for miss VIDing the helos. It hit the Helos for not following the correct codes, and it hit the E-3 for not telling the F-15 pilots that codes had been detected earlier (though they were not as fragged) for the UN missions.
The Balkan F-104s you mention were being controlled by NATO AWACS not US E-3s at that time.
Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I have no children and the paperwork to prove it
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11435 posts, RR: 81 Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5406 times:
I stand corrected....thanks for the additional input. I remember the interviews and documentary of the event that aired on Wings.
Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 11): You recall incorrectly. The only one on the E-3 charged was the SD Capt Jim Wang, he was eventually cleared-though I think on a technicality overall-for his weapons team supervision.
it looks like blame ended up being spread all over in this one
Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 11): The investigation that followed hit the army hard for not giving its air plan to the CAOC in Turkey daily. It hit the Fighters for miss VIDing the helos. It hit the Helos for not following the correct codes, and it hit the E-3 for not telling the F-15 pilots that codes had been detected earlier (though they were not as fragged) for the UN missions.
I think that shitty communications between the different hands on triggers killed several pilots, not to mention several careers.
For the non-F-15 kills I should have specified that the Dutch shootdown was the only F-16 kill I could recall. I did indicate that it was 'the most kills' for the F-15.
AFHokie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 222 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5366 times:
The first kill ever with an AIM-120 from a USAF airframe was from 90-778, an F-16D Block 42 flown by then LtCol Gary L. North, 33FS/CC (currently 9AF/CC). However, the aircraft was not assigned to the 33FS at that time, but rather to the 19FS who the 33d had replaced in the AOR roughly two weeks earlier. Both the 33d and the 19th Fighter Squadrons were part of the 363d Fighter Wing based at Shaw (now the 20th FW). He shot down an Iraqi MIG-25
Areopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1357 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 5355 times:
In the given time period, how many kills were guns rather than missiles? It seems like it has been a long time since I have heard of an air-to-air gun kill, aside from A-10s. Is the day of the gun finally about over, as it was mistakenly thought to be ~45 years ago?
LY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 5348 times:
Quoting Areopagus (Reply 17): In the given time period, how many kills were guns rather than missiles?
I don't think any NATO country has made any gun kills since Vietnam (aside from a possible A-10 kill, against a helicopter?). As always I'm ready to be corrected though As for the mid east, Israeli F-16's definitely scored some gun kills in '81 and '82, not sure about -15's.
Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 14): And ZERO losses in combat. An equally impressive statistic
Zero losses in AIR-TO-AIR combat. Impressive nevertheless.
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4181 posts, RR: 30 Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5289 times:
Quoting LY744 (Reply 18): As for the mid east, Israeli F-16's definitely scored some gun kills in '81 and '82, not sure about -15's.
In Operation Peace for Gallilee, which occurred in 1982, they shot down 80 Syrian fighter planes without a single loss (although Syria claims to have shot down a couple of IAF fighters).
Propatriamori From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5220 times:
You can say what you want about the USAF over the UH-60 Shootdown, but I would have to say that U.S. Army Patriot crews are probably more dangerous to our own planes than the enemy or the Air Force.
25 DeltaDC9: Strike Eagles, that makes sense. Thanks.
26 DL021: those weren't air/air...they were lost to ground fire while making low level runs during the early phase of combat....they lost several Tornados doin
27 11Bravo: My post was in response to this statement in #22. I was just pointing out that, yes they have been lost to things other than mechanical failure. Plus
28 MissedApproach: Not right now, but I have think it's an issue they will revisit for the next generation of fighters. I know there was some research into reducing wei
29 PADSpot: The Iranians claim that they shot down about 152 Iraqi aircraft with their F-14As during the eight-year Iraqi-Iranian Gulfwar. All of their F-5s and
30 DL021: Well, let's do some math and figure if the Iranian figures are reliable. Find out how many airplanes the Iraqis bought, and how many they seemed to h
31 PADSpot: Well, 152 aircrafts over eight years is not even 20 per year. Given the intensity of war and the fact that the F-14 achieved the vast majority of all
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 473 posts, 
From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
As for the mid east, Israeli F-16's definitely scored some gun kills in '81 and '82, not sure about -15's.
From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3350 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
