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Why No Blue Angels Super Hornet?  
User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14681 times:

Now I know this has been discussed somewhat recently as I just read the whole thread to make sure I wasn't regurgitating old info. So this is going to seem virtually identical, but I was looking at some dates that weren't discussed in the previous thread...

So I know everyone is going to say there are plenty of hornets in the desert and they aren't going to use new ones blah blah blah, BUT...

The F-4 Phantom entered service in 1961 and the Blue Angels took delivery of their F-4's in 1969. Hardly seems like they waited for them to pile up in the desert before they started using those. And then again, the F-18 entered fleet service in 1983 and the Blue Angels took delivery of theirs in 1986, only 3 years! And once again, I seriously doubt there were acres of F-18's in the desert after only 3 years. So even if they did get the old test aircraft, I would imagine they still required brand new parts are got some new aircraft. So I am basically wondering why they haven't switched to the Super Hornet? At most, they fly a museum quality jet with working engines (no weapons or highly advanced combat systems). So why couldn't they get stripped down Super Hornets from the assembly line at what I'm sure would be an extremely reduced cost. It would also most likely cut down on maint. cost just because of the fact they are new jets.

I got my dates of service from these sites (feel free to correct any you think i may have got wrong)
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/index.html
http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/index.htm


Go Trojans! Fight On!
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBladeLWS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 14658 times:

A) Super Hornets aren't being built in large numbers. Congress won't authorize them for the Blue's

B) LOTS of regular Hornets to keep the Blues flying for decades to come.

C) $$$$$$$$$

D) Congress

Also the general public doesn't really know the differences between a regular Hornet and a Super Hornet. So in the general publics eyes, the current Hornets are the top of the line as of today, but we know the differences. So there is no reason to upgrade when no one will know the difference except us at a cost of mere millions to the US taxpayer...

And those reasons are also why there will never be a F-22A Raptor in the Thunderbirds.

[Edited 2006-07-22 03:22:08]

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14636 times:

Because the Blue Angles don't fly brand new aircraft...!! Everything that have has seen several years of fleet service before joining the team........for all the above reasons. My guess, you see Super Hornets in 10-15 years.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently onlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2916 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14631 times:

The F-18s aren't exactly stripped down either. IIRC, they are ready to fly into combat within 48 hours of getting the call.

Blues are flying F/A-18As and Bs. Not ecaxtly cutting edge, but with simpler systems than the C-Fs. Helps increase their reliability.

I'd expect them to switch over to the F-35 before the super bug.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 691 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14622 times:

As I recall, the Super Hornet has less agility than the original one. It has a lower roll rate and perhaps a lower power to weight ratio. It was designed to be able to carry much more ordnance with the bigger wing and bring it back to the carrier, with additional range as well. I believe that the Hornets the Blues are using are probably better suited to what they do.

User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14587 times:

The Blues will have the Super Bugs in the not to distant future. Not totally basing anything off a model, but, on the "Blue Angels: A Year in the Life" documentary, they showed a model in the Boss's office... it was a Super Hornet in the BA scheme.

On the 2004 Miramar Airshow Telecast, one of the Blues pilots said "Supers in 2008, or so, but you didnt hear that from me". I think thats a bit to soon. I would say 2010 at the earliest.

[Edited 2006-07-22 07:53:41]

User currently offlineFlyUSCG From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14569 times:

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 1):
B) LOTS of regular Hornets to keep the Blues flying for decades to come.

But were there in 1986 when they took delivery of their first F-18's?

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
Because the Blue Angles don't fly brand new aircraft...!! Everything that have has seen several years of fleet service before joining the team

Which is how I always understood it to be. However, lookin at the delivery dates of the F-4 and F-18 vs. when the Blue Angels got them is pretty damn quick. Blue Angels getting the F-4 only 8 years after it entered service and the F-18 after only 3 years! That's why I never really understood the argument of "they dont get new aircraft". However, they also switched to these during the cold war when the military seemed to have a blank check, so maybe that's why they got the F-18's so quick.

*I also believe this year is the 20th anniversary of the Blue Angels using the F-18*

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 3):
The F-18s aren't exactly stripped down either. IIRC, they are ready to fly into combat within 48 hours of getting the call

So assuming this is true (I've heard that they are too but that was on here, so you all know how that goes), would a dozen (give or take a few) F-18's really make a difference in a conflict enough to the point they would need to be put on the front lines? And then of course, does anyone know if this has ever happened (with any of their a/c)?

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 4):

That's all pretty interesting info and I would suspect be just as important as the money issue deciding on whether or not to go to the Super Hornet.



Go Trojans! Fight On!
User currently offlineAreopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14568 times:

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 6):
Blue Angels getting the F-4 only 8 years after it entered service

The Blues were the last outfit flying the F-11F. It didn't make sense to keep the logistics train open for an airplane that was otherwise out of service and was not built in large numbers in the first place.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4798 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 14512 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 3):
I'd expect them to switch over to the F-35 before the super bug.

That'll be the day! Especially given that the Lightning II had just rolled out.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2916 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 14492 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 8):

That'll be the day! Especially given that the Lightning II had just rolled out.

Hey you never know. They were happy enough to get rid of the A-4 when the Hornet was new, and bypassed large fighters (F-14)... I think the Super bug will be skipped. Hey then again there might always be the possibility of the T-45 too.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14464 times:

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 1):
A) Super Hornets aren't being built in large numbers. Congress won't authorize them for the Blue's

B) LOTS of regular Hornets to keep the Blues flying for decades to come.

C) $$$$$$$$$

D) Congress

All that, and add the fact that as fleet sq get new stuff, the older stuff with a lot of life left, is given to Reserve and the Blues.

Civilians don't know the difference anyway, they just want to "ooooh" and "aaaah", and see a lot of nice smoke.



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14442 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 3):
IIRC, they are ready to fly into combat within 48 hours of getting the call.

Probably a dumb question, but I'm guessing they would remain in the Blue Angels color scheme? Assuming they would concentrate on getting the weapons systems ready for combat before painting them gray...


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14440 times:

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 4):
The Blues will have the Super Bugs in the not to distant future. Not totally basing anything off a model, but, on the "Blue Angels: A Year in the Life" documentary, they showed a model in the Boss's office... it was a Super Hornet in the BA scheme.

On the 2004 Miramar Airshow Telecast, one of the Blues pilots said "Supers in 2008, or so, but you didnt hear that from me". I think thats a bit to soon. I would say 2010 at the earliest.

The Blue Angels have, in the past, as have the Thunderbirds, tried to fly aircraft that were close to state of the art, so that presentation of these airplanes would appeal to potential new recruits. The Blues got the F-4J in 1968, about the time the Thunderbirds got their F-4Es. Both were the latest versions of the Phantom II within their respective branches of service. Bear in mind too that these teams show off their mounts to the public and this does have some impact on public opinion regarding which airplanes should be ordered and which shouldn't. No it's not a huge impact, but there is some.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4798 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14410 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 9):
They were happy enough to get rid of the A-4 when the Hornet was new, and bypassed large fighters (F-14)..

I think "large" works against an aircraft being selected. In addition, the Hornet is quite some way below in price at the time of its adoption, even if we bring it up to present dollars, than the F-35.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14407 times:

Give it a quick, raw, gray paint job and send them to work. Sort of what the RAF does with their winter cammo for the Harriers up in Norway, or that ugly pinkish sand color the Tornados got in Gulf I.


MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14389 times:

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 1):
A) Super Hornets aren't being built in large numbers. Congress won't authorize them for the Blue's

400+ is not exactly small numbers.

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 5):
The Blues will have the Super Bugs in the not to distant future. Not totally basing anything off a model, but, on the "Blue Angels: A Year in the Life" documentary, they showed a model in the Boss's office... it was a Super Hornet in the BA scheme.

On the 2004 Miramar Airshow Telecast, one of the Blues pilots said "Supers in 2008, or so, but you didnt hear that from me". I think thats a bit to soon. I would say 2010 at the earliest.

That's the gouge I have heard and quite frankly it's what makes the most sense. The Navy is going to an all Super Hornet and JSF air wing for the most part - the Super Bug is what they want people at the airshows seeing so they decide that they too want to fly the Super Hornet - that's the whole intent of the BA's in the first place. Expect the first crop of Super Hornets that went through all the OPEVAL's and such, and expect them sooner than later because the current BA legacy Hornets are some of the oldest Hornets in the fleet.


User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14285 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 3):
I'd expect them to switch over to the F-35 before the super bug.

eeww!

the Hornet looks nicer than the Super hornet anyway.

even though the blue angels are grossly over rated, discussion for another thread. they should stick with the older hornets, have to have something going for them  Wink


User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 day ago) and read 14203 times:

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 6):
So assuming this is true (I've heard that they are too but that was on here, so you all know how that goes), would a dozen (give or take a few) F-18's really make a difference in a conflict enough to the point they would need to be put on the front lines? And then of course, does anyone know if this has ever happened (with any of their a/c)?

It's a very vague memory but I do recall that the Blue's had been actually put into a conflict, and the aircraft definitely were not left in BA scheme. I'll have to do some research but off the top of my head a long time ago they did go to war (Korea or Veitnam, thinking Korea).



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineMigfan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 23 hours ago) and read 14201 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 9):
the possibility of the T-45

I hope not.

If needed, the BA's Hornets would be repainted and sent off to war. Although it would be cool to see a BA with some armament on it...

/M


User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1646 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 14177 times:

The 18E/F is not as young as some of you seem to believe. First flight was almost 11 years ago (11-29-95) It's been in the Active fleet since July 2002, First combat operations 4 months after initial deployment. Has served on two major combat campaigns.

460 Airframes are contracted through 2012.

And it's one of the few combat systems Congress truly likes, As it's constantly under budget, ahead of schedule.


But as someone else has mentioned, During the times the Blues got the F-4 and F-18A/B the services had blank checks.



My Country can beat up your Country....
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