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Will Russian Eads Ownership Hurt Tanker Prospects?  
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

I started a thread on the commercial site on the Russian State Bank, VTB, buying 5% of EADS stock on the open market.
Russian State Bank Buys 5% Stake In Eads - Report (by Lumberton Aug 29 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Could this have adverse implications for EADS winning either the FCA or USAF tanker deal? After all, Russia is steadfast in selling arms to Iran. Some (if not all) in Congress could see them as an "enabler" of the Islamic theocracy in Teheran and their vitriolic campaign and undisguised hatred of the U.S, Israel, and the west in general. Granted, there is a much, much larger picture here--particularly WRT the close ties that have developed between Boeing and Russia over the years. However, in today's highly charged, toxic, and caustic political environment, anything can be demagogued (and not just in the U.S.).

Also, should the E.U. be concerned that Russia now has almost the same stake as Spain in their "crown jewel"?

EDIT: Came across this article (UK Times) after starting the thread....
Russian move on EADS rings alarms

Quote:
The move may ring alarm bells across the Atlantic. EADS is an important defence contractor, owning the European helicopter maker Eurocopter and having a 37.5 per cent stake in MBDA, a missile maker. For the giant European group, defence is an increasingly important segment of its business, and the American market is vital.
All big Western defence companies nowadays have international links, with global export markets as well as financial interests in other defence companies. Nevertheless, the prospect of a Russian state interest in Europe’s biggest aerospace group may make the Pentagon pause before placing orders. Russia is no longer a Cold War adversary, but neither is it seen as a wholly reliable or benign ally. Global competition for political influence is as fierce as ever, and America has deplored the authoritarian tendencies of the Putin Government.
A stake of only 5 per cent would not seem to be threatening. But if Moscow were to increase its holding, this might raise questions about the consortium. The fear might be that defence secrets would be compromised or that Russia might gain advantage in the global competition for arms sales. This is an area where Russia still presents a formidable challenge to the West: its arms sales to the developing world are huge and of crucial importance in volatile areas such as the Middle East.

I'm sure there'll be speculation in the U.S. Press as well.

[Edited 2006-08-30 17:27:46]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3175 times:
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If Russia takes BAE's stake and becomes a partner, I imagine there will be concern - not only in Washington, but Paris and Berlin, as well...

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
If Russia takes BAE's stake and becomes a partner, I imagine there will be concern - not only in Washington, but Paris and Berlin, as well...

I think the fact that their stake is already as large as Spain's should be enough to generate that kind of concern!



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

They are buying them to make a profit not to interfere with defence policy. They could just as easy buy Boeing shares on the open market. Most shares are owned by banks and investment companies and you offer the right price, they will sell.

User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7613 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

The question implies that the US would buy a non Boeing tanker.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3058 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 4):
The question implies that the US would buy a non Boeing tanker.

I think it implies that we would CONSIDER a non-Boeing tanker, just as we would CONSIDER a Boeing tanker.

But, if the Russians buy, even open stock of EADS, then that will pretty much kill any Grunman/EADS chance of getting a US Military contract in the future.


User currently offlineFVTu134 From Russia, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

So that means that if Vneshtorgbank decides to increase it's aviation portfolio and decides to buy 5% of boeing on the open market, Boeing is also out of the market for supplying military contracts?

Obviously many people may have been surprised by this move but globalisation also happens on the financial markets and anybody can buy shares on the open market including Russians, Chinese, Cubans, Venezuelans, Syrians, Iranians, North-Koreans etc.... Now if all of those bought 5% of Boeing.... guess congress would do some head scratching.

I would think that there are enough clauses to protect the intellectual property of companies or the national interests of countries. But then it's also notthe first time that things are blown out of proportions by some of our friends in the US of A. Guess we'll just have to wait and see

FVTu134



who decided that a Horizon should be HORIZONtal???
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 6):
So that means that if Vneshtorgbank decides to increase it's aviation portfolio and decides to buy 5% of boeing on the open market, Boeing is also out of the market for supplying military contracts?

I think US laws don't allows these types of investments in some defense companies, like Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, GD, and some others.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
If Russia takes BAE's stake and becomes a partner, I imagine there will be concern - not only in Washington, but Paris and Berlin, as well

I didn't think that BAe had stake in EADS - just a stake in Airbus which is jointly owned by EADS (80%) and Bae(20%) but not for very much longer!


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):

I think US laws don't allows these types of investments in some defense companies, like Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, GD, and some others.

BAE owns significant shares in many US defence contractors, and even owns some outright.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
BAE owns significant shares in many US defence contractors, and even owns some outright.

BAE is a US defense contractor, too.


User currently offlineTropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

The politicians who are die hard Boeing fans will use any issue to challenge EADS in the competition for the tanker. They will use this issue even if it is baseless by creating a perception of a problem. It is a common tactic in politics.

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 11):
They will use this issue even if it is baseless by creating a perception of a problem. It is a common tactic in politics.

Look it from the perspective of negative campaign ads...everyone decries them, but they work!  Wink



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2908 times:
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Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 8):
I didn't think that BAe had stake in EADS - just a stake in Airbus which is jointly owned by EADS (80%) and Bae(20%) but not for very much longer!

I stand corrected, then.  Smile You can disregard Reply #2 now.  Wink


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 4):
The question implies that the US would buy a non Boeing tanker.

The US already buys a non-Boeing tanker; the Lockheed Martin KC-130J for the US Marines.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Could this have adverse implications for EADS winning either the FCA or USAF tanker deal?

Not really. EADS had a minimal chance in winning the tanker contract before the latest development.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 4):
The question implies that the US would buy a non Boeing tanker.

We would. We'd buy a Lockheed tanker, for instance. Yes, I know, they don't make one......

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
I think it implies that we would CONSIDER a non-Boeing tanker, just as we would CONSIDER a Boeing tanker.

We'd consider it long enough to make it look like a fair evaluation.


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