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Will The P-8 Have 767400er Type Wing Tips Or Not?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3510 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6268 times:

From what I have been reading. The P-3 replacement the Boeing P-8 is a 737800 with wings that has 767400er wing tip instead of the winglet that most 737NG have. I just wanted to be sure that I got the P-8 design right. So do the P-8 have 767400er wing tips? If so this will make it a interesting looking 737 NG.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6263 times:

I can't be too sure on the 767-400ER wingtips, given that the 737 and 767 have different wings. Maybe they will have raked wingtips instead of blended winglets, but I doubt it will be the 767-400ER's.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6263 times:

Yes, they will have a simmilary type of wingtip, but not the exact same dimensions.

User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6265 times:
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The APB winglets were dropped and it will have raked tips, looking like those on the 767-400ER, 777-200LR and 777-300ER.

User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3510 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 3):
The APB winglets were dropped and it will have raked tips, looking like those on the 767-400ER, 777-200LR and 777-300ER.

Good! Very good!


User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6223 times:
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http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_P-8A_MMA_Changed_Wing_lg.jpg

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5937 times:

And another thing it will have is a new name - POSEIDON, Greek god of the sea.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...eing+P-8A+after+Greek+sea+god.html



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5932 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 6):
And another thing it will have is a new name - POSEIDON, Greek god of the sea.....

Good, I was afraid they would pick Madusa, the lady with the snakes for her hair.


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5922 times:

Reason for the raked tips is so that signals to/from the aircraft would not be affected. The winglets would interfere with the signals.

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

The only dismaying bit there is IOC won't be until 2013.


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineJakeOrion From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1253 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5905 times:

On the subject:

For this particular mission, is it a good idea to replace a prop with a jet? I mean, could speed of the aircraft hinder its searching abilities? Or it doesn't matter?

Thanks for the input, as I know nothing about this mission field.



Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5890 times:

is the P-8 going to be based off the -700 or the -800 fuselage?


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5884 times:

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 11):

-800.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5883 times:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 10):
For this particular mission, is it a good idea to replace a prop with a jet? I mean, could speed of the aircraft hinder its searching abilities? Or it doesn't matter?

The RAF Nimrod is one of the most successful maritime role aircraft in the past 50 years - its fantastic at its job mainly because its a jet. Hopefully, the P-8 will be as well.

Also, jet aircraft are harder to detect underwater (by subs etc) because its engines emit less low frequency sound and more higher frequency sound - the high frequency sound does not react well within the water boundaries.

Jet aircraft also have a hiogher dash speed, allowing them to get to patrol areas faster. Also in a search, the more area covered the better.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 11):
is the P-8 going to be based off the -700 or the -800 fuselage?

Think of the P-8 as a "737-800ER." Essentially, the BBJ2 airframe except with raked wingtips.

For what it's worth, I think it'd be nifty to see raked wingtips as an option on other variants.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5863 times:
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Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 6):
POSEIDON, Greek god of the sea.....

Or for students of pop culture... a ship that turns upside down... a bad thing for a long range patrol aircraft



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlineThorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 15):

Or for students of pop culture... a ship that turns upside down... a bad thing for a long range patrol aircraft

Also, a Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile in service in the 1970s and 80s.

AvLeak revealed the name of the P-8 many months ago. I wonder what took so long for the name to become official.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
Jet aircraft also have a hiogher dash speed, allowing them to get to patrol areas faster. Also in a search, the more area covered the better.

The only problem we're running into is the need for our P-3's to be on station and at low altitudes for long periods of time. The P-8 won't be near as efficient at these altitudes, so new technology will be included in the package to counter this.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineArluna From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5770 times:

The P-8 in the picture doesn't have a MAD boom. Has the Navy decided that the MAD boom is not needed or has the technology for detecting magnetic anomalies advanced enough that the boom isn't needed?

J


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5751 times:

Is this the same as the 737MMA? The one that's equipped with under-wing missiles and a bomb bay?



Mark


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):

Bad ass 737 if you ask me!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineThorny From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
Is this the same as the 737MMA? The one that's equipped with under-wing missiles and a bomb bay?

Yes. MMA is now P-8 Poseidon.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5677 times:

Quoting Arluna (Reply 18):
Has the Navy decided that the MAD boom is not needed or has the technology for detecting magnetic anomalies advanced enough that the boom isn't needed?

Won't be needed like it used to be. New technology.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
Is this the same as the 737MMA? The one that's equipped with under-wing missiles and a bomb bay?

Yep, just like the P-3 with the same setup.

Quoting Thorny (Reply 21):
MMA is now P-8 Poseidon

It is still called the MMA around the fleet. Poseidon just sounds funny.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5552 times:
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From the Correspondence column of the January 1, 2007 issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology:

I take exception to comments attributed to Boeing Vice President Jack Zerr in the article "Know Your COTS" (AW&ST Nov. 27, 2006, p.78).

It was stated that 737 blended winglets were magnets for ice buildup on long patrols in arctic regions. This statement is without basis in fact; extensive flight experience never has shown icing to be an issue for the 737-800 with blended winglets. Our analysis indicates that even in severe icing, the consequences of any ice buildup for performance and safety would be less significant for the winglet configuration. And, blended winglets increase fuel efficiency by as much as 7% while the raked-tip performance is about half that number.

Icing has never been an issue and if it had been, there are inexpensive anti-icing systems available for blended winglets. The expense associated with a new aerodynamic wingtip shape for the Boeing P-8A derivative is unneccessary when a 3-hr. flight test on a stock 737-800 would prove the point. The use of blended winglets is the best and cheapest solution for the P-8A.

Joe Clark, CEO
Aviation Partners, Inc.
Seattle, Wash.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5533 times:

He's just trying to justify his bread and butter. Blended winglets save 3.5-4.5% fuel burn, while raked wingtips save 5.5%—see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_devices for more info and links to Boeing and NASA flight testing.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
25 Post contains links Aeroweanie : N328KF: No, Joe is right. The blended winglets are fully certified for flight into known icing. The NASA data you refer to is for first generation win
26 Post contains links Sidishus : The best thing about the P-8 wings is that the wet tanks are being reengineered to reduce the threat of hydrodynamic ram from battle damage. This aint
27 SP90 : I thought that thing sticking out the back was the MAD? Maybe technology advancements has allowed them to make it smaller/shorter?
28 Post contains links DEVILFISH : Speaking of new technology, the Navy now wants to include a major system upgrade before the Poseidon detailed design is frozen..... http://www.flight
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