DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4423 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12037 times:
Quote:
"We've got dozens of systems operating over there but there's a big logjam in the [intelligence] pipeline, and everyone knows it."
It certainly won't do acknowledging the effectiveness of boneyard relics when there are billion $ being spent on "state-of-the-art" and "leading-edge" ISR platforms. Besides, battlefield commanders would think several times before committing such high-value assets in high-attrition environments.
Makes one wonder what is more dispensable in their view.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62 Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11997 times:
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it...Amazing how all the lessons about troop support learned in Vietnam have been forgotten. It is an old enough article I wonder if it happened or happening.
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 2): It certainly won't do acknowledging the effectiveness of boneyard relics when there are billion $ being spent on "state-of-the-art" and "leading-edge" ISR platforms. Besides, battlefield commanders would think several times before committing such high-value assets in high-attrition environments.
The irony is striking.
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3): I love the OV-10, however besides weapons payload, what exactly does the OV-10 bring to the table that a Predator or two can't?
Fly low, decend itself, carrry a small cargo load, and I am pretty sure the weapons load is heavier.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11998 times:
Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 1): Another aircraft in the category of the A-10.
Well, not exactly. The OV-10 is a great airplane, but it certinetly is not in the same category as the A/OA-10.
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 4): I love the OV-10, however besides weapons payload, what exactly does the OV-10 bring to the table that a Predator or two can't?
AirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2529 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11984 times:
I always thought the Marines were the ones who should have been flying the A-10 even if they couldn't get it on deck of an amphib assault carrier...
Screw the OV-10, bring back the Corsair to the tune of the F2G or some new turbine powered example!
Papoose From Italy, joined Sep 2006, 28 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11973 times:
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 7): always thought the Marines were the ones who should have been flying the A-10 even if they couldn't get it on deck of an amphib assault carrier...
Me too, but when it enters service was the US Army in Europe that had need.
I think that when the Marines put their boots in some place, they would prefer to have the warthog over their head intsead of the AV-8.
I'm wrong?
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11433 posts, RR: 81 Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11966 times:
Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 1): Another aircraft in the category of the A-10. Low 5's on attractiveness, high 9's on effectiveness.
The problem with the OV-10s in Iraq back in 1991 was that they were fairly easy targets for MANPADS and the squadron commander of the Marine Reserve OV-10 sqn from NAS Atlanta even got shot down. They are useful when they are able to fly at low levels outside of useful machine gun range, but they can't fly above missile range, nor can they outrun a Strela or anything else.
They are tough airplanes and if used correctly they are excellent spotting/patrol airplanes as long as we're willing to take casualties. We're really not willing to do that. The only reason they were armed during Vietnam was that the Destroyers got worn out and there was not yet a real attack helo until the Snake came online.
An armed OV-10 is better than an unarmed 0V-10, but not much better than anything else available. UAV's can do the spotting job better for less casualties and they can also carry weapons for precision attacks. If we're going to bring back old airplanes for ground attack, let's bring back the Scooters and really do some damage....4 20mm cannon plus the bomb load....speed and maneuverability. They're sitting in the desert waiting to be cannibalized or scrapped...but they work. THey'd be perfect for this job.
Quoting Papoose (Reply 8): I think that when the Marines put their boots in some place, they would prefer to have the warthog over their head intsead of the AV-8.
I'm wrong?
Probably, but it's a moot point since it's not designed to operate off of carriers. The AV-8B+ is capable of amphibious operations and is the right tool for that mission. Joint operability allows the Marines to have USAF air on call when available and needed.
Quoting DL021 (Reply 9): let's bring back the Scooters and really do some damage....4 20mm cannon plus the bomb load....speed and maneuverability
A-4s only had 2 20mm cannon internally. Did they carry a supplemental cannon pod?
I like that idea better than the OV-10, maybe we can borrow a few from Argentina!
Is the MANPAD threat in Iraq really so great today? One would think if it were, there would be a lot fewer helis US, coalition and contractor) operating there.
FBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11933 times:
OV-10's were great planes when invented,even during their early operational carreer.They were overtaken by armed helos and almost everything else,unfortunately. Nowadays,they make excellent warbirds in civilian hands,though
Remember building a HAWK 1/48 scale kit in the late sixties.Great kit,great memories!
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4423 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11898 times:
Quoting FBU 4EVER! (Reply 12): Nowadays,they make excellent warbirds in civilian hands,though
They are still proving their worth in my country's south against the Abu Sayyaf. Admittedly, they are all the PAF could afford (military aid), as even A.net does not have the Philippine Air Force on its list when you do a photo search. They list Papua New Guinea though, but no photos.
TedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 11784 times:
Quoting L-188 (Reply 5): Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
I love the OV-10, however besides weapons payload, what exactly does the OV-10 bring to the table that a Predator or two can't?
Fly low, decend itself, carrry a small cargo load, and I am pretty sure the weapons load is heavier.
thanks for the mis-quote; I think you meant:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 4): I love the OV-10, however besides weapons payload, what exactly does the OV-10 bring to the table that a Predator or two can't?
And I agree; why send a man in to do what a machine can do better?
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 11755 times:
What would be even more effective for the Marines would be a version of the USAF RQ-1A/B Predator carrying either 2 20mm cannons, or 1 30mm cannon (from the A-10), instead of Hellfires. Isn't the USAF now flight testing the RQ-9A Preditor II that is a larger version of the RQ-1 that carries some 4X the RQ-1's payload?
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 11751 times:
The OV-10 can carry small strike force in back, could be handy at times.
The tendency to use machines for everything is part of the problem the US armed forces have today, they've become TOO reliant on technology.
In a low intensity conflict it's often better to have a man on the ground with eyes and ears than an eye in the sky.
LimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 11666 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15): Predator carrying either 2 20mm cannons, or 1 30mm cannon (from the A-10), instead of Hellfires
The GAU-8 weighs 1,830kg, but the RQ-9/MQ-9 has a payload of about 1,700kg. I imagine that the sensor package takes up a good chunk of that payload, so even if it were possible to shave a couple hundred kgs in weight off the GAU-8, it'd be a really tight fit at best...
Also, the GAU-8 has some serious kick! Its recoil force is 9,000 lb. I seem to remember reading somewhere once that the recoil is so strong that a prolonged burst of fire can actually slow down an A-10! (I don't have a quote for that, though, so it could be 100% bogus -- sorry.)
I don't know how well the RQ-9/MQ-9's frame could deal with such a strong kick -- it kinda seems like you'd be giving a .454 Casull to a 2-year-old kid to fire...
I'd sure love to see video of a GAU-8-armed MQ-9, though!
ShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11593 times:
Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 18): I seem to remember reading somewhere once that the recoil is so strong that a prolonged burst of fire can actually slow down an A-10!
I've heard this as well. In addition, the amount of heat generated during firing would melt the gun if it were not limited to short bursts.
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11433 posts, RR: 81 Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11289 times:
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 16): The OV-10 can carry small strike force in back
The ability of the OV-10 to carry personnel is very limited to say the least. Two OV-10s can carry a 6 man LRS team on a jump, but it's not in any way convenient or safe. The pilot is the jumpmaster, and unless that guy really knows what he's doing as regards parachuting it can suck.
As far as taking troops in by airlanding it's pointless, because there are other more practical aircraft for that purpose.
The stated purpose of oil pipeline surveillance is probably a useful one for the OV-10, as long as they travel in pairs and conduct armed overwatch for each other.
TedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11210 times:
Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 18): I seem to remember reading somewhere once that the recoil is so strong that a prolonged burst of fire can actually slow down an A-10! (I don't have a quote for that, though, so it could be 100% bogus -- sorry.)
I have heard this too, namely an issue when flying @ MCA. I recall stories of gun firing induced stalls. I also heard of gun exhaust flame outs.. Which lead to the fixed inboard slats.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11061 times:
Wouldn't the former USAF/USN A-1Es make more sense? They carried a hell of a lot more ordanace than former USAF/USMC two OV-10A/Ds could.
25 Mandala499: OV10s? My fav COIN aircraft! In my opinion, it'll do a good COIN mission as good as if not better than the predator. A-1s was another mean machine...
26 ATCT: Yea if you could revamp the Mohawk that would be sweet. I love the bug-eyed beast. Id like to see the bronco back too though. ATCT
27 DEVILFISH: As the A-67 is still in development and someways off, wouldn't potential customers be also better served by Embraer's Super Tucano? http://www.flightg
29 Mandala499: Now that's not a Skyraider *fake deny!* One hell of a machine eh? And a Turbine-Contrarotating prop? I last heard about this 10 years ago in a book so
30 DEVILFISH: There was the single-seat, Kamov Ka-50 'Hokum' attack helicopter with co-axial, contra-rotating rotors which eliminated the need for a tail rotor. Ho
31 RAPCON: Why don't you ask the crew that got shot down back in Desert Storm--an action which mightily expedited the retirement of these obsolete airplanes.
32 Luisde8cd: Two OV-10s, flown by rebel pilots during a coup d' etat in Venezuela in 1992, were shot down by AAA from a military fort in Caracas. The OV-10s were b
33 Mandala499: Devilfish, I was referring to the Skyraider with contra-rotating props... Not just any single seater with contra rotating props... Hokum does look mea
34 N911ME: That's not a Skyraider with contra-rotating props - it's the A2D Skyshark.....began as a turboprop version of the SPAD, but a different airplane. http
35 DL021: LTC (now Col ret) Acree could tell you a thing or two about their modern battlefield survivability. SAM took away their lease on life.
36 DEVILFISH: Check the links in Replies 21 and 27.
37 RAPCON: Excatly my point. The OV-10 belongs in only two places: (1) Third World AF with minimal SAM threat, or (2) A museum. That's it!
39 DEVILFISH: Sukhoi came up with a further bizarre interpretation of that idea..... http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...or+counter-terrorism+missions.html Quot
40 DEVILFISH: An update on this. It seems US Aircraft of Ohio has not given up after the false start, and has now engaged Brazil's Geometra to work on an aircraft
41 DEVILFISH: In a new development, Hawker Beechcraft AT-6s are being pushed for this mission..... http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...may-prosper-in-iraq-draw-d
42 Par13del: Experts can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think we are overlooking the real problem and looking at the symptons. In Desert Storm I we had a Mari
43 KevinSmith: Here is info on the one that is at the USAF Museum. http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614
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They list Papua New Guinea though, but no photos.
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