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Su-25 & G4 Vs M-346  
User currently offlineFireblade From Portugal, joined Feb 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Could a su-25 and galeb G4 be effectivally replaced by M-346 in ground strike and training?
m-346 data
The weapons carried include: MK82 500 lb and MK83 1000 lb free fall or retarded bombs; Rocket launchers; AIM-9 Sidewinder short range air-to-air missiles; R-73 (AA-11 Archer) short range air-to-air missiles; 23 or 30 mm gun pods: Raytheon AGM-65 Maverick air-to-ground missiles; Alenia Marte MK-2A anti-ship missiles. The external hard points can also carry the Vinten VICON-601 reconnaissance pod, laser designator pod, radar warning receiver pod and Elettronica ELT-55 electronic countermeasures pod.
Dimensions
Span
31.9
9.7 ft
m
Lenght
37.7
11.5 ft
m
Height
16.3
5 ft
m
Wing area
253.2
23.5 sq ft
m2
Weights
Empty
10200
4627 lbs
kg
T.O.( trainer )
14800
6713 lbs
kg
Weapon load (max)
6614
3000 lbs
kg
T.O.( armed )
20945
9500 lbs
kg
Power Plant
Type
Honeywell F-124-GA-200
Pressurized and air conditioned cabin with two Martin Baker zero-zero MK 16 ejectable tandem seats, staggered in height.
Thrust
2x6300
2x2850 lbs
kg
Internal Fuel capacity
4300
1950 lbs
kg
Performance (Clean, ISA)
Max Level Speed
(15.000 ft)
570 Kts
Limit Speed
572 KEAS/.95MN
Rate of climb
25000
127 ft/min
m/sec
Stall speed
(landing, 20% fuel)
90 Kcas
Service ceiling
45000
13700 ft
m
Range Clean /2ext.tanks
(10% reserve)
1100 /
2030 / 1400 nm
2590 km
T.O. ground run
920
280 ft
m
Landing ground roll
1900
580 ft
m
Limit Load Factor + 8 g -3 g
Sustained Load Factor (15000 ft)
5.5 g
Sustained Turn Rate
(15.000 ft)
14 deg/sec




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWarlord From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

m-346 has no ground strike capabilitiesas good as su-25.Understood?

User currently offlineAndrijaG4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 2679 times:

M-346 can carry a weapons load of 3000 kg.
Su-25 can carry 4400 kg. Plus M-346 needs gun pods, Su-25 has a gun already. So no, M-346 can't replace Su-25. It is better for Mkd to operate G4M (it can use AGM-65 & R-60 - Mkd doesn't need anti-ship missiles) and Su-25. Also it is cheaper.
I also think Mkd should acquire 10-12 MiG-21s and have them upgraded to MiG-21-93 (or MiG-21-2000).


User currently offlineBattleborgcube From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

Su-25 is greatest ground strike but g4 is a lousy trainer [compared with m-346,of course g4 is much older than m-346] but if you want to save money because of operating 1 aircraft it's cheaper than 2 why not?
You got an excellent [the best]jet armed trainer and if you don't want to go in some air battles [because all of your neighbours have good afs and you're peacefull right?] the M-346 will do?



User currently offlineAndrijaG4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

Cube,

modernized G4M can carry all the weapons that M-346 can other than anti-ship missiles. Sure, it's not as great for training, but Mkd doesn't have F-16s, MiG-29s or Su-27s so doesn't need the extra training capability.


User currently offlineWarlord From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Nice pics you got Cube.


User currently offlineWarlord From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Andriya any idea how much does M-346 cost?
Alexander


User currently offlineAndrijaG4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Aermacchi said something about below 15 mil$, I dunno the exact price though.

User currently offlineWarlord From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

15 millions they are crazy you could buy yourself a new mig-29 for that kind of money.

User currently offlineAndrijaG4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Well if you look at the new JSF which is around 40 mil$, 15 mil$ is not that much. For Western countries anyway. But if you compare it to F-16A which cost about 20 mil$ I believe then it's a 'bit' expensive.
I'll try to find the G4 price and post it.


User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

The F-16A is not in production anymore (for about 15 years now), are you talking about a used one?

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineWarlord From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

New falcon is something about 26 millions new gripen 20 so 15 millions for a trainer that's very expensive for any kind of country.
Alexander


User currently offlineAndrijaG4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

Well I was comparing it to the older-generation aircraft (yes I know F-16A is no longer in prod.) and in that respect it seems expensive, but if you compare to the newer generation aircraft it's not as expensive (like JSF - 40 mil$). But still I wouldn't buy it.

User currently offlineWarlord From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

Andriya where did you find your info jsf will cost about
28 for the USAF version while USN version will be 35-38 .
http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/military_aircraft_prices.htm
Also yak-130 cost is 8-10 millions what 's reasonable while M-346cost 15millions
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/5958/6/
And how much does new G4 cost?


User currently offlineAndrijaG4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2639 times:

From what people tell me, a new G4 cost about 3 mil$ (back in 80s of course). The G4M can't be more than that if it's true, so I guess a G4M would be tops 5 mil$.

User currently offlineWarlord From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

Do you know how many G4M are ordered or purchased till nowdays?
Alexander


User currently offlineAndrijaG4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

As far as I know, there is only one G4M (converted from a G4). It's marked as a testing aircraft.
Here's a picture:
http://www.bglink.com/bgpersonal/ands/galerija/images/g4.jpg
You can tell a G4M from a G4 by the R-60 AA missiles mounted on the wingtips and by the AGM-65 Mavericks it can carry.


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