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F-117 Quietly Retired  
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 21148 times:

Quote:

Almost as furtively as it flew above war zones from Bosnia to Baghdad, America's F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighter has retired from active duty.

The years had snuck up on it. Though it remained cutting-edge contemporary in many people's minds, the Nighthawk had hit the quarter-century mark. At a discreet "Silver Stealth" ceremony at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico this week, some of the people who built, serviced and flew the plane marked the end of its 25-year career.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l_pageid=968332188854&col=96835006

End of an era!

113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 21149 times:

When a F-117 was lost during Allied Force the whole program was compromised with wreckage being sold to the highest bidders in China and Russia . With the advent of the F-22 it made this one mission acft obsolete.
Its only defense was its stealth and if caught by the always effective markII eyeball of a enemy gunner the stealth was negated.



I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineN215AZ From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21084 times:

I am sad to see it go. It really was a great plane. But all good things must come to an end.

N215AZ



"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."
User currently offlineJakeOrion From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1253 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21092 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Thread starter):
End of an era!

Not really, the F-22 Raptor, B-1 Lancer and B-2 Spirit are still around, plus the F-35 program incorporates its own stealth technologies as well.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 1):
When a F-117 was lost during Allied Force the whole program was compromised with wreckage being sold to the highest bidders in China and Russia . With the advent of the F-22 it made this one mission acft obsolete.

I'm sure the F-117 loss had a small hand it in, but I believe the F-22 virtually ended the program for the F-117. Plus with the new F-35s coming on the line, and then you have the B-2, there isn't really a need for the F-117 anymore. However, I shall miss them.

DAMNIT! First the F-14, now the F-117. Life sucks.



Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21080 times:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 3):
Not really, the F-22 Raptor, B-1 Lancer and B-2 Spirit are still around, plus the F-35 program incorporates its own stealth technologies as well.

My point was that the F-117 was truely unique in its stealth, because all subsequent stealthy aircraft are 'normal' looking. Its the aircraft everyone knows, because its impossible to msitake it for something else.


User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21070 times:

The F-117 was a first generation stealth acft, with the pace of inovation and the built in stealth characteristics of future combat acft there was no need to keep it. The B-2's long range made it the first choice of war planners plus you don't need to forward base a B-2 not counting Diego Garcia or Gaum plus alot less tanker support. The way stealth is is hyper advancement the radar of an E-3 will probably be just used to find bad guys with the mode 4 iff the only way to track friendly forces F-22,F-35, B-2. The Navy is going to hate USAF gamers when their carriers are always going to be easy targets for the stealths.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 21000 times:

That is the only reference I can find to a fleet wide retirement occuring. I thought the Pentegon announced the fleet is to be retired in 2008? One source in the article, a Mr Paul Cabot of the Toronto Aerospace Museum, is not worth listening to. Why? read this: http://www.rbogash.com/rebuffed.html. It is my guess that a squadron stood down.

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 20983 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
because its impossible to mistake it for something else.

You underestimate the incompetence of the US media, my friend...  Wink



2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineJakeOrion From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1253 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 20959 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
My point was that the F-117 was truely unique in its stealth, because all subsequent stealthy aircraft are 'normal' looking. Its the aircraft everyone knows, because its impossible to msitake it for something else.

To be honest, I believe more people recognize the B-2 more over than the F-117. Witnessing a flying wing is definately a memorable sight.



Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
User currently offlineBeefstew25 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 20956 times:

Here is the video of the 25 F-117's in formation....pretty good stuff.

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/10189382/detail.html



MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
User currently offlineBeech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 20839 times:

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 6):
That is the only reference I can find to a fleet wide retirement occuring. I thought the Pentegon announced the fleet is to be retired in 2008? One source in the article, a Mr Paul Cabot of the Toronto Aerospace Museum, is not worth listening to. Why? read this: http://www.rbogash.com/rebuffed.html. It is my guess that a squadron stood down.

Yes the F-117's aren't supposed to be retired for another 18-24 months. Being replaced in late 2008-early 2009 for F-22's.

The Air Force would have made an official announcment.
Even the Airforce Link mentions no date and i'll trust them over some other countries news paper.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123030185



KPAE via KBVY
User currently offlineChecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1095 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20825 times:

Yeah, thats REALLY bad information whoever published that. The Air Force just celebrated the 25th Anniv. of the Nighthawk. The F-117 HAS NOT been retired.

-Check


User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20822 times:

Well this certainly snuck up on me. I would say the aircraft was very impressive at what it was designed to do. Can anyone in the know tell me how much these have been deployed during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Also when can we realistically expect the F-22 to be deployed, and when will the F-35 enter service? Thanks.

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20804 times:

Hard to believe this aircraft is really 25 years old....shame they won't be around for too much longer, that's a big mistake on the AF's part.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineOkelleynyc From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 20719 times:

IF this is true, it makes me wonder if there isn't a "black" replacement we don't know about...


Just give me my Vario, my Ozone Mojo and a gorgeous day of soaring.
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 20452 times:

Quoting Okelleynyc (Reply 14):
IF this is true, it makes me wonder if there isn't a "black" replacement we don't know about...

Not a black replacement, an obvious one. Holloman AFB was recently announced to be an F-22 base in the near future. Nighthawks are being directly replaced by Raptors.



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20362 times:

I could have sworn I had seen the item in Flightglobal's "News Headlines" list too, but it's nowhere to be found now. Must have been pulled. I nearly started a thread on it.


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 20154 times:

Air Forces Monthly's Nov 2006 issue also has the article on the retirement of the Grey Dragon II F-117 by Mark Ayton.


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20085 times:

F-117 Nighthawk to be replaced by the F-22A Raptor


Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20032 times:

Boy, the 117 served for 25 years!!!! It's time to put them out in Davis Monthan.


MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineNightHawk117 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19950 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 19):
Boy, the 117 served for 25 years!!!! It's time to put them out in Davis Monthan.

25 years is nothing! There are many airframes in U.S. military service that are far older than the F-117A. The B-52, for example, has been in service for over 40 years and the Air Force is still upgrading it.

Why the Nighthawk is being retired so soon is beyond me. It is still a perfectly capable airframe and, yes, the F-22A can do what F-117 can and be able to fight air threats. Still, there aren't enough Raptors that are operational. It would be wise to wait until we have about 75% of the F-22A fleet operational and combat capable before the F-117A is retired.

Here is an article from the Fall edition of the Air and Space Power Journal:

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...nicles/apj/apj06/fal06/ireton.html

I think Maj Ireton's argument to keep the F-117A is the best I have seen. I just wish the AF (and Congress) would listen.



Team Stealth...when it absolutely, positively HAS to be taken out overnight!
User currently offlineSP90 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19944 times:

Hopefully one will find its way to the Intrepid after she is back from her overhaul.

User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 19897 times:

Quoting NightHawk117 (Reply 20):
25 years is nothing! There are many airframes in U.S. military service that are far older than the F-117A. The B-52, for example, has been in service for over 40 years and the Air Force is still upgrading it.

You said it. The B-52 is still in service because of upgrades. The 117 got zilch, and thus is a 25 year old airframe with systems that are becoming outdated and in need of upgrades. No need to blow $$ on an a/c whose mission is being taken over by newer, more capable, a/c.

Bye bye 117. Hello 22 & 35!



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineChecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1095 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19764 times:

Quoting NightHawk117 (Reply 20):
Still, there aren't enough Raptors that are operational. It would be wise to wait until we have about 75% of the F-22A fleet operational and combat capable before the F-117A is retired.

Well there is already more operational and combat capable Raptors in service than the F-117 fleet so I don't know why they should wait any longer.

-Check


User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 19497 times:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 3):
B-1 Lancer

I thought the Lancer was not stealth?

Quoting Checksixx (Reply 11):
The F-117 HAS NOT been retired.



Quoting NightHawk117 (Reply 20):
25 years is nothing! There are many airframes in U.S. military service that are far older than the F-117A. The B-52, for example, has been in service for over 40 years and the Air Force is still upgrading it.

I was just going to say.....



Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
25 Post contains images MCIGuy : It's Stealth-Y. It has a much smaller RCS than the B-1A and a lot bigger one than the B-2.
26 Post contains images SP90 : Its all relative. I think even the SR-71 has some stealth characteristics. Maybe they just fly so high thats why their RCS is lower because less rada
27 RichardPrice : Unfortunately they neglected to take into account the engine exhaust when calculating the SR-71 RCS during development - it ended up with a humungous
28 Venus6971 : Plus having it fly over your airspace with the accompanying sonic booms so its stealth is more or less negated. The SR-71's advantage was 70,000 ft p
29 Post contains links JakeOrion : Various sources say between $27,000 and $38,000 per hour, and that was in 1960s USD. Taken from http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/compare/res
30 Cloudy : Nearly every aircraft retirement has been fought by somebody with some clout, and the opposition is the loudest when there is no direct replacement.
31 Ex52tech : It's one thing to retire an airplane when you have a replacement, as in the F-22. When they retired the SR-71, that was a real shame. Yeah it was expe
32 KevinSmith : I thought a cruise missle was sent in to take care of most of the wreckage? I'm not an expert but I would think that they missle would make anything
33 Ptrjong : It would have to hit.
34 KevinSmith : That is what I'm saying. It hit the wreckage site.
35 Post contains images DeltaGuy : 2006 called, they want their thread back DeltaGuy
36 Post contains images RichardPrice : The wreckage was not bombed. Intact parts can still be seen in a museum in Serbia, including the cockpit. I agree
37 KevinSmith : Ha ha you know that's funny. Maybe if I was a member back in 2006 I could have talked about it back then.
38 Fbgdavidson : I had no idea it was being retired. Then again I'm not completely tuned in to MilAv Found a good video of the 25 F-117 flyover:
39 Post contains images RichardPrice : From your post header - Hmmmmm
40 KevinSmith : I've only been first class since Feburary 07 and henceforth only able to take part in the forums since then. Moving on. Thanks for the info. I didn't
41 RichardPrice : You dont need to be first class to post in the forums, if you have a username you can post.
42 Sovietjet : Wait so it is retired already or is planned on being retired? If it has been retired, when was the last flight?
43 KevinSmith : It has not been retired yet. It is slated to be retired. Huh, well what do you know RichardPrice, somebody else had a question on the subject. Gonna
44 LongbowPilot : Damned Air Force... Bunch of money wasting politicians. I think they waste more money then all the other services combined.
45 MCIGuy : Well, the Nighthawks won't stand down until Holloman gets their Raptors. It is being replaced by something much better, so I don't see the issue here
46 LongbowPilot : If the excuse the 117 was shot down is to justify a new fighter, then lets see what happens if one of those is brought down, and I am not wishing bad
47 MCIGuy : Well, I don't know any 'Hawk crews first-hand, but it's my understanding that it's a hangar queen, very expensive to maintain, more so than the Rapto
48 Post contains links and images TripleDelta : Here's a shot of it in the db: View Large View MediumPhoto © Dr Bastasic Dusan It's a bit blurry, since the protective glass case isn't exactly
49 Venus6971 : The reason F-117 that got shot down during Allied Force was not destroyed by a follow on strike it was surrounded by curious civilians and Cnn camera
50 TripleDelta : To nitpick a bit, Serbia and Bosnia, as well as the rest of former Yugoslavia, are on the Balkans, on the other side of mainland Europe from the Balt
51 Checksixx : Money wasting?? No offense but lets see how everyone feels if the Air Force sits the next war out of the picture. No thats not it at all. The Nightha
52 RichardPrice : The only French officer arrested for spying, Major Pierre Bunel, was arrested 5 months prior to the actual bombing. The air tasking orders for the F-
53 Vzlet : A statement like that makes it sound as if you're unaware that, like each of the US military services, the AF has responsibilities and interests that
54 RichardPrice : The point I think LongbowPilot was making is that every conceivable threat today and for the forseeable future can be met with the current arsenal. T
55 Venus6971 : To Achieve and "maintain" the dominence that already exists. We prefer to never be in a fair fight. We might be outnumbered but never outgunned.
56 KevinSmith : Exatamundo. Strategic Air Command=Peace through deterence. Yes SAC is gone but the idea behind it is not.[Edited 2007-03-02 19:16:09]
57 KevinSmith : Did not know that. Ha well shoot. The entire reason I joined FC was so I could post. Everytime I tried to with my user name it wouldn't let me before
58 LongbowPilot : A budget that is first pumped into everything BUT what it was intended for (i.e. air conditioned gyms, substandard living allowances), then they go c
59 Checksixx : Yet oddly enough we have the personnel and equipment for almost every tasking were presented with...including taking over jobs from the Army that they
60 Checksixx : Also thank the Army top brass for not spending the budgets given to them fully. You do that and they assume you don't need that much money next year,
61 Post contains links LongbowPilot : I see what you are saying, but if you want to buy the biggest toy on the block and cut your funding, but then congressmen see jobs on the line for an
62 KevinSmith : You per chance aren't a WO or at least an old school Army guy are you? I never know quiet how to take it when the other service call it "Coporation A
63 LongbowPilot : Neither Kevin. It is more of a understanding that the Air Force is run more like a Commercial Operation. They get the job done, and now how to pull pu
64 Venus6971 : LongBow, what would you think if your AH-64 was over 30 years old with no replacement in sight and the ground time just to fix the thing has tripled.
65 Checksixx : Now that I find very hard to believe as the program has been only taking fighter drivers...namely F-15 (mostly) & F-16 pilots. Check
66 Venus6971 : The pilot I was talking was from the Fighter Weapons School at Nellis and the prior A-10 pilot was also an instructor who just transitioned who were l
67 KevinSmith : Roger. I'm at a joint assignment where the AF is in the minority. Needless to say I catch a ribbing a two for wearing the blue.
68 LongbowPilot : The Apache is over 25 years old, with airframes still around after being convereted from A models to D models. There is no future replacement insite,
69 Venus6971 : The C-5 has their upgrade going on right now and the debate is now to stop it with the B/C models and retire the A models and buy new C-17's because
70 Post contains images JakeOrion : There WAS, but the Comanche program has been terminated. Damn. From what I understand, depending on who you talk to, the Apache is either a Western M
71 RichardPrice : The Commanche was not an Apache replacement, it was meant to work in harmony with the Apache Longbow on the battlefield.
72 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : LongbowPilot makes an excellent point regarding the Air Force. Just take Fort Rucker, Alabama for instance. The USAF conducts helicopter flight train
73 Connies4ever : Nice to see your still out there, UH60... I saw on NBC News last night at Camp Victory there is a Pizza Hut, Subway, 2 or 3 coffee outlets, and other
74 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : I am less than two weeks out, and counting! -UH60
75 KevinSmith : I wouldn't call it pissing. You take care of your people your people take care of the mission. I do think that it can cause a problem. People get too
76 LongbowPilot : you said this: An attempt to justify the need to buy bigger better equipment, the Air Force way... I said this: to rebuke the claim that aircraft in e
77 Venus6971 : Yes I agree with you, the USAF has it share of pussies who will bitch if they can't find a Starbucks if they are deployed to Dafur, I was in AWACS an
78 KevinSmith : I don't agree with that at all. The A-10 is loved by the AF. Yes attempts to kill the program have happened. Desert Storm solidified the place of the
79 Sllevin : It's hard to judge age like that. The B-52 is a plane that likes to fly. The Goblin, OTOH, is an airplane that spends its life trying to tear itself
80 Venus6971 : Because of the Key West agreement, and the last thing the USAF brass wants to see is a tactical fighter being flown just as well or even better by Wa
81 ATCGOD : Not true...if I remember right there is about a 6-7 month gap between last F-117 and first F-22. And yes, I can confirm that the F-117's are still fl
82 Checksixx : Lot of interservice bashing going on...as far as what I've read, if you don't like the fact that 70% of the Air Force folks stay back at base while th
83 Lotsamiles : Two F-117's were on display and flying demos at the Point Mugu Air Show this weekend. Regards, Lotsamiles
84 KevinSmith : Or fighters, attack a/c, bombers.
85 Par13del : Here's a question on the interservice rivalry, does the Air Force really want the CAS mission or just the Army's money which they pay for the service?
86 KevinSmith : Not sure I understand? You're saying the Air Force is paid to do CAS by the Army? WHAT!!!!!!!! What is driving you to make this claim?
87 LongbowPilot : I have spoken with Army Apache Pilots who have had the opportunity to work with Marine Cobra Pilots. They do their jobs well, and are great at their c
88 ZANL188 : It is the Air Forces ability to retain qualified people and the Armys inability to do the same that has resulted in programs like "Blue to Green" (ht
89 HighFlyer9790 : Wow...im out of the military loop! just out of curiosity, is the B-2 utilized a lot?
90 Checksixx : The Air Force along with any other service does the CAS mission just fine. No, the Army doesn't 'pay' for CAS...not sure how you came to that conclus
91 Checksixx : Again on the budget issue...the only folks you can be angry at for Army money or lack of it would be your senior leadership that is supposed to reque
92 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : Well first that has nothing to do with the Army's "inability to retain qualified troops." The truth is that we have record number of re-enlistments o
93 Checksixx : Hence the reason I said along with all the other services...the Air Force is not the sole source of airpower. Who said it wasn't? Everyone knows if y
94 Post contains links Checksixx : Keep in mind...if you want to see where the money is going all you have to do is go look... http://www.dod.mil/comptroller/
95 ZANL188 : Sure it does. The Army failed to do what was necessary to maintain necessary troop levels, therefore the Army is no longer able to do traditional Arm
96 UH60FtRucker : Apparently you're not familiar with the process. To put it in Barny terms: The President (in this case President Bush I and President Clinton during
97 MDorBust : What, have a coup against the government?
98 Checksixx : Just so were clear here...the dining facility and gym will be off limits to all except US Air Force personnel then right? I think not. Oh and by the
99 Post contains images ANCFlyer : It's the whole Air Farce mentality . . . and I know first hand . . . last wife was a Herc Driver. The Air Farce is more a corporation than a military
100 Venus6971 : The USAF is now in the position of blood letting, it is more or less not letting first term enlistee's reenlist becuase it has to pay for a fleet reg
101 Post contains images ANCFlyer : The Brown Leather Jacket Club!! I remember being introduced by my C-130 Pilot ex-spouse . . . . one Colonel asked how he should address me, John or P
102 Venus6971 : After Desert Storm the USAF did a massive draw down but that time they gave alot of e-5 thru e7's early outs and retirements, 4 years later we had al
103 SEPilot : As I understand it, the only thing the F-117 has going for it is stealth. It is slow, not very maneuverable and not very efficient. It makes sense to
104 Checksixx : What a lack of respect...and your a moderator? You make me sick. Sure, no problem, and remember you asked...lets see...I won't go to deep into the wh
105 Post contains images RomeoKC10FE : Boy you sure were swiiggin the green kool-aid over your career,yeah it's true we use first names alot, when I was in the Air Guard that's the way it
106 MDorBust : Sorry, we've been trying to catch up on the golf course contruction.
107 ZANL188 : UH it's obvious that your frustration with not having flares or not being to get your equipment thru depot has absolutely zero to do with the Air For
108 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : Typically the facilities were divided amongst the branches - IE: each branch in a sense "owned" certain buildings. Of course you wouldn't get arreste
109 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Here we go with that "You're a Moderator" crap again . . .. You'll get over it . . . . I still have an opinion - and based on 24 years Active Federal
110 Checksixx : What you fail to realize is that only very few carrer fields in the AF actually 'lap in luxury' in a deployed environment and that is what I'm taking
111 Post contains links ZANL188 : If the Army ain't got what it thinks it needs it's the Armys fault, not the Air Forces - I can't believe I need to spell that out for you!! Here, Her
112 RomeoKC10FE : I wouldn't use such words (Haji), this is a world wide web site, didn't you learn anything from Don Imus's firing!
113 Skyway1 : Interesting read from our military members here...any more thoughts?
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