Alibo5NGN From United States, joined Oct 2006, 480 posts, RR: 1 Posted (3 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 6168 times:
USS Intrepid is being towed out today from the pier near 42nd street to a shipyard in Bayonne New Jersey for a $50 million face lift. It will be towed across the Hudson River presenting a wonderful photographic opportunity for those in the New York City and Jersey City (New Jersey) areas (particularly in the high rises.
Good shooting.
It takes knowledge to make a career. It takes wisdom to live a life.
If this had happened when she was in commission the captain would have been transferred to a desk pretty quick. Along with never seeing that first star.
SP90 From United States, joined May 2006, 300 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 6027 times:
I don't understand how she could get stuck in mud while backing out into the river. I thought they used dredgers to clear a path for her already. Did they clean the mud under the ship as well or just the area directly behind? Plus why did they not remove the propellers when they decomissioned her? They are located underwater anyway so its not like visitor will notice its not there.
The pier will also get rebuilt as part of the project. Hopefully they will build a shelter for the Concord while their at it. I don't know where they will store the aircraft in the mean time. Maybe they will go to Floyd Bennett Field along with the Concord. They also pumped out 600 tons of water from the ballast tanks. If only those VIPs and elected officials would step off the boat too maybe she just might make it. =)
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 7608 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5848 times:
Quoting SP90 (Reply 3): I don't understand how she could get stuck in mud while backing out into the river. I thought they used dredgers to clear a path for her already. Did they clean the mud under the ship as well or just the area directly behind? Plus why did they not remove the propellers when they decomissioned her? They are located underwater anyway so its not like visitor will notice its not there.
The pier will also get rebuilt as part of the project. Hopefully they will build a shelter for the Concord while their at it. I don't know where they will store the aircraft in the mean time. Maybe they will go to Floyd Bennett Field along with the Concord. They also pumped out 600 tons of water from the ballast tanks.
First mud is extremely corrosive to steel ships. The memorial Battleship USS North Carolina, BB55, is also stuck in mud and will have to be dug out when she goes to Virgina for her refit in a few years. Even though the artical said the engines aboard Intrepid were removed years ago, that is not true. According to USN regulations, no parts required for recalling the warship to service may be removed without expressed approval of the USN. So, even the propellers are in place. When the Battleship USS Massachusetts, BB59, had her refit in Boston in 1999, Battleship Cove wanted to cut her propeller off the shafts, to display the propellers. The USN told them they could remove the propellers, but not cut the shafts, so only her outboard propellers were unbolted and removed.
Why don't they remove the display aircraft to help lighten the CV?
Cadet985 From United States, joined Mar 2002, 741 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5829 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5): According to USN regulations, no parts required for recalling the warship to service may be removed without expressed approval of the USN. So, even the propellers are in place.
When I visited the ship back in September, one of the guides told me that if the museum foundation got a call the next day that the USN needed the Intrepid back, it would take 18-24 months to fully renovate her back into a fighting ship, and modernize her. Does that seem accurate?
LMP737 From United States, joined May 2002, 3916 posts, RR: 26 Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5757 times:
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6): When I visited the ship back in September, one of the guides told me that if the museum foundation got a call the next day that the USN needed the Intrepid back, it would take 18-24 months to fully renovate her back into a fighting ship, and modernize her. Does that seem accurate?
Not very accurate at all. When the USS Independence went through SLEP in the 1980's it took almost three years to complete. A ship that has been tied to a pier for the past couple decades is going to take a bit more time. If the Navy was really that hard up for a carrier they would recommisssion a carrier that was in service recently like the Constellation. Also remember that the Intrepid was not designed with modern aircraft in mind. Which means two things. One it will not be able to carry many aircraft. Two it might not be able to carry certain types.
In addition the deck is much smaller than a modern carrier. This leaves even less room for error. I suspect that the guide was pulling your leg.
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 7608 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5449 times:
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 10): Latest news on this say the USAF and Army Corps of Engineers will help in a new attempt to move the Intrepid.
USAF? I wonder what the Air Force is offering? Fox News Channel is saying the USN is going to dredge out the mud from around Intrepid's four propellers.
StudeDave From United States, joined Oct 2006, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6): When I visited the ship back in September, one of the guides told me that if the museum foundation got a call the next day that the USN needed the Intrepid back, it would take 18-24 months to fully renovate her back into a fighting ship, and modernize her. Does that seem accurate?
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 7): Not very accurate at all. When the USS Independence went through SLEP in the 1980's it took almost three years to complete. A ship that has been tied to a pier for the past couple decades is going to take a bit more time. If the Navy was really that hard up for a carrier they would recommisssion a carrier that was in service recently like the Constellation. Also remember that the Intrepid was not designed with modern aircraft in mind. Which means two things. One it will not be able to carry many aircraft. Two it might not be able to carry certain types.
In addition the deck is much smaller than a modern carrier. This leaves even less room for error. I suspect that the guide was pulling your leg.
SLEP is a bad example to use, and Carriers can do more then just launch a bunch of big heavy jets...
The Service Life Extension Program was designed to extend the life of the ships that entered it by 15-20 years, hence it's name. It rebuilt or replaced major components (cats for one) and upgraded some systems. The further into the program the more it was just band-aids, really. Those ships that went through it were also much bigger then CV11. I don't think it'd take nearly as long for this smaller ship. It would cost a lot of $$$, if not more, due to her age and amount of time she's been out of service.
Yes, the Navy would have to be VERY hard up to recall this old ship, and it's uses in today's Navy would be very limited. But a flight deck is a flight deck. Keep in mind, back in her day she only had helos, S2s/E1s or A1s and A4s. She'd deploy in concert with a bigger deck that had the bigger/heavier aircraft.
I'm sure she'd be able to launch whatever would fit on that small deck. She's only 100 feet shorter then Midway and Coral Sea... Maybe with new cats F/A18Cs could be launched? Even if only for a bunch of helos- she'd be useful...
Besides, with the Navy's helo plans that are coming down the road, it might not be a bad idea, really- we're fixin' to send alot more helos out on carriers, and they're all in the way!!!
The reallity of it all is she's really, really, really old, and there would have to be major work just to put her to sea, let alone think about any operations. Look at what it took to get the Iowas back to sea after all that time in mothballs. While it might be fun to cruise on something that old, it'd be no easy task, and the hardest hit would be to the checkbook~ everyday she's at sea would be very expensive!!!
Thanks for that bit of info. I had no idea such a regulation existed.
Regarding the size of the Intrepid, isn't she about the size of the WASP class? If the USN really had a desperate need maybe they can use her purely for helos like they did with USS Lincoln during the tsunami relief. It will probably cost as much to make her sea worthy again as it take to build a new one.
Sinlock From United States, joined Dec 2000, 1474 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5313 times:
I'm sure if the dire "need it right now" for a Helo carrier ever happened.
It would be much faster and cheeper to the Navy to get its hands on a container ship and build a flight deck.
Sprout5199 From United States, joined Feb 2005, 1429 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5311 times:
Quoting SP90 (Reply 13): It will probably cost as much to make her sea worthy again as it take to build a new one.
But I dont cost would be the thing, time would be. say 24 months vs 60 for a new one. but if we were that hard up do like the Brits did, use container ships. a helo deck is a helo deck.
LMP737 From United States, joined May 2002, 3916 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5109 times:
Quoting StudeDave (Reply 12): SLEP is a bad example to use, and Carriers can do more then just launch a bunch of big heavy jets...
The Service Life Extension Program was designed to extend the life of the ships that entered it by 15-20 years, hence it's name. It rebuilt or replaced major components (cats for one) and upgraded some systems. The further into the program the more it was just band-aids, really. Those ships that went through it were also much bigger then CV11. I don't think it'd take nearly as long for this smaller ship. It would cost a lot of $$$, if not more, due to her age and amount of time she's been out of service.
I think it's good example. The Intrepid has been tied to a pier for almost twenty five years. It's been striped of equipment. Even if equipment was left behind it would be so obsolete that it would have to be replaced anyway. Then there's the condition of the ships boilers, wiring, spaces, arresting gear and as you mentioned the catapults. Also take into account that the refurbishment of the Intrepid is going to take over a year to complete. If something like that will take over a year putting it back into commision will take a bit longer.
Quoting StudeDave (Reply 12): She's only 100 feet shorter then Midway and Coral Sea... Maybe with new cats F/A18Cs could be launched? Even if only for a bunch of helos- she'd be useful...
We can eliminate the Super Hornet right off the bat for being to big. Even the standard Hornet might be pushing it. Then there's the issue of where you would get those Hornets. THe JSF is a canidate but that's not going to be coming online for a number of years. As for helos that's what LHA and LHD's are for.
The point I was trying to make is that SLEP was for boats in service- This one is clearly not in that catagory!!! It would not be the same kind of project...
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 16): As for helos that's what LHA and LHD's are for.
The LHAs and LHDs were built for the Marines, and as such we (NAVY) don't use them much. The helos I was talking about are on REALLY BIG BOATS (CVNs) at the present time...
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 7608 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4987 times:
Quoting StudeDave (Reply 17): The helos I was talking about are on REALLY BIG BOATS (CVNs) at the present time...
They are also on every Tico class CG, Burke class DDG, the few remaining Spruance class DDs and OHP class FFGs, and will be on the new DD(X), and later CG(X) and CVN(X) class warships. They are also aboard the USCG 901 class WMEC (278'ers) and larger classes of USCGCs. How many more helio carriers do we need?
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 16): Even if equipment was left behind it would be so obsolete that it would have to be replaced anyway. Then there's the condition of the ships boilers, wiring, spaces, arresting gear and as you mentioned the catapults. Also take into account that the refurbishment of the Intrepid is going to take over a year to complete. If something like that will take over a year putting it back into commision will take a bit longer.
Partially true. When the USN recommissioned the Iowa class BBs in the 1980s, they did not replace the 16" main battery solution computers (old mechanical computers designed in the late 1930s for the South Dakota and Iowa class BBs). Why, because, even in the 1980s, there was nothing better, more accurate, or faster at computing a firing solution for these big guns. Even though the computers were huge, by 1980s standards (about the size of an office desk), they took into account the targets distance, speed, course, your speed and course, outside air temperture, surface winds, winds aloft, sea state, number of shells already fired (gun temperture), gun elevation, and even curviture of the Earth, and many other factors.
Even though Intrepid's "refit" will take close to 2 years to complete, she will not spend all that time in dry dock. She is only scheduled for a few months in dry dock. The rest of the time she will be tied to the shipbuilders pier. Some of that time, she will not have any work done on her, she has to wait for her own pier to be removed and replaced with a new pier, and dredging of her birth.
But, to bring Intrepid up to the current USN standards, if she were ever to be recommissioned would probibly take about 48-60 months of work in the shipyards. This is slightly longer than it would take to return the four Iowas, Connie, Midway, Massachusetts, Lexington, and North Carolina to recommissionable condition. This is abvout as long as it would take Alabama, BB60, to recommission.
- Why does The Navy use the letters "CV" and CVN" for aircraft carriers? I'm sure the "C" is for "Carrier" and the "Ns" stand for "Nuclear" but why the "V?"
- Also, are not all the "CV" carriers gone from current use with the USN?
Thanks
David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
LMP737 From United States, joined May 2002, 3916 posts, RR: 26 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4915 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19): Why does The Navy use the letters "CV" and CVN" for aircraft carriers? I'm sure the "C" is for "Carrier" and the "Ns" stand for "Nuclear" but why the "V?"
- Also, are not all the "CV" carriers gone from current use with the USN?
I beleive that the V stands for heavier than air aircraft. There are still two CV in active navy service. THe USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 and the USS John F Kennedy CV-67.
LMP737 From United States, joined May 2002, 3916 posts, RR: 26 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4905 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 21): - And they are still steam powered? Could they be refitted with reactors?
Both are powered by eight boilers. As for the second question anything is possible I guess. However the ships were designed and built with boilers in mind not nuclear reactors. The cost of rebuilding them with reactors would be prohiblitvely expensive. Especially for ships that are approaching fifty years of age.
Tiger119 From United States, joined Sep 2003, 1801 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4867 times:
I am reading an article that mentions the U.S.S Lexington CVT-16 (I have been aboard her). She is sitting as a museum in Corpus Christi. What does the "T" in "CVT-16" stand for? Thank you,
David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
StudeDave From United States, joined Oct 2006, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4867 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18): They are also on every Tico class CG, Burke class DDG, the few remaining Spruance class DDs and OHP class FFGs, and will be on the new DD(X), and later CG(X) and CVN(X) class warships. They are also aboard the USCG 901 class WMEC (278'ers) and larger classes of USCGCs. How many more helio carriers do we need?
Dude~ I KNOW where NAVY helos operate- been there, done that!!! I've gone to sea on~ 2 CVs, 5 CVNs, 2 CGs, 1 DD, and 1 FFG~ all in helo Squadrons. Please reread reply # 12~ I was only talking about CV/CVN ships and the helos that are on those bad boys!!!
The point I'm trying to make is that at the present time, with the exception of CVN-72, Carriers (CVs & CVNs) deploy with one helicoptor squadron that has 6 or 7 H60s. The other ships in the Group get Detachments from other Squadrons. In the very near future the Carriers' helo numbers will double. All the needs of the entire Battle Group will be met by two full Squadrons~ big deck, little deck- Oiler, Crusier, or Carrier.
I'm not talking about the Gators and/or Amphibs. That'll be a whole 'nother deal, 'cause they are their own Group, and do their own thing...
Da man From United States, joined Sep 2001, 887 posts, RR: 17 Reply 25, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4863 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 23): What does the "T" in "CVT-16" stand for?
Training
The Lex was actually AVT-16 when she was decommissioned.
War Eagle!
26 L-188: Training.....The Lex was for years the carrier that all the new pilots got to learn to shoot carrier landings on. Frankly I think she should of conti
27 StudeDave: WOW, there's one I've never seen before... That's more like it, in her final role anyway... She's had more arrested landings then any other carrier~
28 Da man: The Lex held the designation CVT-16 briefly in either the 70's or 80's before she was redesignated AVT-16.
29 Sprout5199: Looks like she is moving: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/05/uss.intrepid.ap/index.html Dan in Jupiter
30 Corsair1107: Good to see they got everything taken care of. There are some neat aircraft on that thing. Is the renovation of the pier going to include a covered di
31 DeltaGuy: Interestingly enough, the A-7E on display on the Intrepid flew it's last flight off of the Lex, courtesy of my dad. He took the cat shot, and the ent
32 747400sp: Or hold off on decommission the Kitty Hawk. Also, if the USN need more of anything, it would have to be AOE's. An T-AO, T-AFS, T-AE or the new T-AKE,
33 KC135TopBoom: The Navy is holding off on decommissioning the Kitty Hawk, at least for another 5 years, or so. Even though she is "newer", Kennedy will decommision
34 STT757: There should be 12 Carrier battle groups, six each in the Atlantic and Pacific. Atlantic: Norfolk 5 Jacksonville/Mayport 1 Pacific: Bremerton 1 Evere
35 UALPHLCS: BTW the mud problem the Intrepid experiences is due to the pier she is tied up to. So eventually when they need to do this again, and according to His
36 LMP737: I doubt that we will ever see a carrier home ported at Pearl Harbor. The expense of moving a carrier and it's associated air wing would be incredibly
37 StudeDave: Someone please refresh my memory- weren't Pearl Harbor and Guam both being looked at as possible Carrier 'bases' sometime ago? I know it'd sure cut d
38 STT757: I've read that the Pentagon wants to move a carrier from the Continental US to one of three places ; Guam, Pearl Harbor, Western Australia. Guam would
39 LMP737: Don't get me wrong, it would be preety cool to have a carrier home ported at Pearl Harbor. However I just doubt it will happen due to budget constrain
40 STT757: Just curious but could anyone hazard a guess as to how much quicker a carrier could reach say Taiwan from Hawaii vs San Diego or Washinton State?
41 StudeDave: That would depend on how big of a 'hurry' the ship is in... those CVNs are FAST!!! They have been known to leave their support ships in the dust~ CGs
42 KC135TopBoom: Or look at the Battleship Massachusetts, in Fall River, MA. She is berth in line with the prevailing currents and tides. When she went into dry dock,
43 STT757: The Naval Air Station on Guam was located at the International airport, BRAC closed the facility and the Navy now shares space for their rotating P-3,
44 UALPHLCS: SS United States still holds the Trans-Atlantic Crossing record, and her hull is STILL classified. It was designed by the Navy so she could serve as
45 StudeDave: Didn't someone say that already??? Yes and no~ been there, done that!!! When a CVN is going somewhere it's NEVER in a straight line, and it's usually
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